ExecutedToday.com

1,708 Comments Add your own

• 1. Fiz (UK)  |  January 24th, 2009 at 7:58 am

  Yay, Kevin! How did you feel when you had all that creepy stuff on your table? I think I’d be sick!

• 2. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  January 24th, 2009 at 11:59 am

  Hi Fiz–

  I found it to be exceedingly interesting; I couldn’t quite believe Bundy’s murder kit had actually made its way into my hands. I mean, what are the chances of something like that happening to a person? Very surreal.

• 3. Fiz (UK)  |  January 24th, 2009 at 4:20 pm

  I should think the chances are almost nil! I can’t wait for your book to be out!

• 4. Cathy -Florida  |  January 26th, 2009 at 12:47 am

  I saw Bundy in court once, and he was a scary guy. I have been studying everything I could get my hands on ever since, and am looking forward to your book.

  Do you know if there has been any effort by Law Enforcement to get Bundy’s DNA into the system? At one time a few years ago, we found out they had never done a DNA test on his DNA because he was dead. We hop they may be able to solve a cold-case or 4 if they can DNA match him to old evidence.

  Looking forward to reading your contribution to the Bundy corpus.

• 5. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  January 26th, 2009 at 8:19 am

  Hi Cathy–

  Ted was cremated, and to be honest, I don’t think investigators are interested any longer in searching out any more answers in the case. Most believe he’s responsible for the deaths of at least 36 women and young girls, but that number could go higher. I do know that in the last couple of years they have been able to rule Ted out of a couple of murders in Washington State that they believe he committed according to some DNA work that was completed, but I don’t see a lot of that in the future.

  However, I do find it interesting the secrets he took to the grave. For example, he admitted to killing 11 in Washington State but we have the names of (off the top of my head) I believe 8. He told Utah investigators he killed 8 in the state, but admitted only to 5 by name. So there is still quite a bit of mystery here, and any answers we receive in the future will be welcome, to both the families and the public at large.

• 6. Sallyanne  |  January 27th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

  By complete fluke I have stumbled across this website today. I have just finished reading another Ted Bundy book , Deliberate Stranger by Richard Larson. I cant get enough of Ted, so I was blown away to find that you will be publishing a new book on the case. How come you were allowed all the murder kit ? I thought the police would keep that for evermore in the vaults of crime. I must make you shudder to see the balaclava - those things always look sinister - and especially with the mouth eyes and mouth picked out with black piping !! I think I would have to smell it ! just to see if it smelt of Ted - I guess thats the closest I’m ever going to get to him - Dont be worried I am not a freak or anything hahah ! No chance of you selling just at least one item to me ? pretty please ? - Joking aside - good luck with the book - I shall be first down the bookstore for my copy - Best wishes Sally & Limedog - UK

• 7. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  January 27th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

  Hi Sallyann–

  If you click on the section above “from inside Bundy’s ski mask” it will take you to a site which republished an article I wrote about having all that stuff in my home. But the only thing I have today is one of the Glad bags from Ted’s car which Det. Thompson gave me before he returned to Utah. Thompson has had these things for many years now, as he was the lead detective in the case.

  Now to Richard Larsen: I really enjoyed his book, and I was very,very, sorry to learn of his death when I started the research for my book. I would very much have liked to interview him , as I think he would have been interesting to talk to, and I think he would have been pleased with those additional (and very important) “finds” I’ve uncovered, and the direction the book has taken. Needless to say, I think you’ll like the book.

• 8. Headsman  |  January 27th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

  (Editorial note: For convenience, I edited Kevin’s comment there to put the link to his (fascinating!) article on the Bundy gear directly in line in his comment.)

• 9. Ted Montgomery  |  February 11th, 2009 at 10:33 am

  Kevin, I’m looking forward to reading your book. I occasionally review books for newspapers and on-line (I’ve reviewed Bob Keppel’s books twice, for example). Do you know if MacFarland makes review copies available to reviewers?
  On a side note, and with all due respect, what could you have possibly discovered that isn’t detailed meticulously in other books about Bundy? Ann Rule, Steven Michaud, Hugh Aynesworth, Bob Keppel and others have seen all the files related to Bundy’s crimes; is there something they missed that you discovered?
  Best of luck,
  Ted

• 10. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  February 11th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

  Hi Ted,

  You can check with McFarland concerning review copies, as I know they provide them to a number of folks, so your best bet is contacting them as we get a little closer to publication.

  Concerning that which is new: You’re having the same reaction I had as I began discovering various aspects of these cases which haven’t been covered before in print. Of course, I’m chomping at the proverbial bit to tell you what they are now, but I can’t. Suffice it to say that after you read the book, you will know what I’m talking about, and why I had to wait to reveal them.

  Two things I will say: Many of the Bundy books were written years ago, when mystery still surrounded a number of these cases. Also, there is something to be said for catching people years later, when they’ve mellowed a bit, and are more willing to reveal certain aspects of the crime after a long time has passed. Of course, I like the previous books on the cases, and they are all excellent works on Ted Bundy Having said that, I believe what I’ve created with my book is quite unique, and I certainly hope you agree after reading it, either for personal enjoyment, or for review.

• 11. Ted Montgomery  |  February 12th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

  Kevin, thanks for the nice note. I’ll look forward to reading your book. Do you have a rtelease date yet?
  Cheers,
  Ted

• 12. Kevin m. Sullivan  |  February 12th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

  Hi Ted–

  My editor told me a while ago that it is on their fall 2009 list for publication, but that it could be out somewhat earlier than that. If I hear anything more exact in the months ahead I’ll let you know.

  Thanks,

  Kevin

• 13. Nicole  |  February 22nd, 2009 at 11:39 am

  Hi. Do you perhaps have any information on Bundy’s whereabouts in 1981? I am putting the pieces of a traumatic event that happened to me as a young girl. I am trying to rule out an occurence with the late Bundy. I’d like to know the time frame and whereabouts of Mr. Bundy in Montana. Any help you can give me to clear up this matter would be great. Thank you for your time.

• 14. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  February 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 pm

  Hi Nicole

  In 1981, Ted was on Death Row in Florida. I have no knowledge of Bundy ever being in Montana. This is not to say he couldn’t have visited the state at some point in his life, but I’m fairly certain he didn’t commit any murders there.

• 15. Barbara  |  February 23rd, 2009 at 2:22 am

  Hi. Kavin just came aross your website. I know for a fact that Ted Bundy took secrets to his grave. I met Ted in 1978 when he was on the run. I was living in Columbus Ohio.

• 16. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  February 25th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

  Hi Barbara–

  I found your comment to be very interesting, but I must say, I have, in the past, spoken to numerous people who claim to have “run into” Bundy during his time of murder, and most of these folks (because they had no direct contact in the normal circles Bundy moved through) and they certainly weren’t victims, most if not all of these people are honestly mistaken.

  Now, Bundy’s 1978 escape from Colorado (his second and final from the state) landed him in Ann Arbor, not too far from where you were in Columbus. However, he stole a car in Ann Arbor, and made his way south, stopping only to eat, refuel, and take care of those human necessities we all have to deal with. He even made a stop in Louisville, KY (my hometown) and had breakfast at a certain eatery, and was back on the road again. In other words, he was moving south as quickly as possible. So if you did meet Bundy during this time, I would certainly like to hear the particulars, for it must have been an interesting meeting indeed.

  Take care.

• 17. Barbara  |  February 28th, 2009 at 7:54 pm

  Kevin - Thank you for you reply. Ted Bundy did come here to Ohio. He wasn’t here long, but he was here. I met him through an old friend. He said his name was Ted Bundy, he also mentioned that his middle name was Robert. He made it very clear that he didn’t like to be called Teddy. Ted had asked me about my Mother being so old. I told him that my Mother was really my Grandmother. He said that’s like de-ja-vu. I then asked Ted if his Grandparents had adopted him, Ted said “something like that”. Ted also asked me if I had ever parted my hair in the middle or worn it longer. While Ted was in Ohio he stayed at a rooming house by campus. He was driving a cream color VW Bug. The passenger door could only be opened from the outside, Ted had removed the door handle, his excuse was that it was broken and needed to be fixed. Detectives came to Ohio looking for him in Jan /Feb of 1978 before he was caught in Florida. According to the local news in 1978, investigators were on the Ohio State campus asking questions about Ted. These events happened before any book or movie was ever out there so not much was known about him.
  I don’t see how it could not have been him. I wanted to keep this reasonably short, so I’ve kept some of the details out of it. I’m not sure this is the right forum for them. I’m looking forward to your new book being released.

• 18. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 1st, 2009 at 10:39 am

  Barbara–

  The person you dealt with could not have been Ted bundy, and here’s why: As I said earlier, it is an established fact that Ted was moving quickly south, so he wouldn’t have set up shop in Columbus. Also, his removable-door handle “death car” VW was no longer his to use, and the car he stole in Ann Arbor was of Japanese manufacture. It is, of course, quite plausible you did meet someone by the name of “Ted” who drove a VW, but it wouldn’t have been the infamous killer. The official record speaks otherwise.

  Take care.

• 19. Barbara  |  March 1st, 2009 at 3:34 pm

  Kevin,              When I met Ted, I assumed he was a student at Ohio State University. He had asked me about school, when I asked him how long he had been going to OSU, Ted said  that he had just got to town and wasn’t a student, but that he planned on going back to Law school once he got back on his feet financially. He was driving a Light cream color VW Bug in Columbus obviously it couldn’t have been the original bug since that was impounded in 1975. The color or make really doesn’t matter, since he had stolen a lot of vehicles. Who’s to say that he kept the car from Ann Arbor for very long, remember it was never found in Atlanta and he could have switched vehicles several times on the way to Atlanta. Also, an orange VW Bug in Florida was one of many stolen vehicles that he was driving there. If it wasn’t the Ted Bundy, then where do you think this impostor got the back ground information on the real Ted Bundy? Also when Ted escaped from the Colorado prison he had planned on coming to Columbus Ohio from Chicago. But instead went to Ann Arbor, because he didn’t want to take a bus to Columbus. I know that he was only in Ohio for a few days, I asked my friend about him a couple of days later and she said “He’s gone, nobody knows where he went”. This guy didn’t just look like Ted Bundy, he said his name was Ted Bundy and his middle name was Robert. I know that I can’t be the only person that remembers Ted being at OSU. If it wasn’t possible then why would the detectives have wasted their time coming here?

• 20. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 1st, 2009 at 6:38 pm

  Barbara–
  I suppose the best way to figure this one out is to find out what Theodore Bundy said about his 1978 activities while in route to Tallahassee: Bundy stated to the writer Stephen Michaud (and to others) that he intended to travel to Columbus from Chicago, but because he couldn’t get a train to that city, and would have to rely on a bus taking him there, he changed course, deciding to head for Ann Arbor instead. As I stated in an above post, he stole (found the keys in, was more like it) a Japanese vehicle and began his trek south. Bundy was also quite clear that he kept this same car until he reached Atlanta, ditching it there. Though he loved killing women, and had ample time to do so, he made it clear in numerous interviews that his only desire at the time was getting south as quickly as possible.

  As to the detectives who may have investigated his supposed ramblings in Columbus, well…it appears they were following an evidence trail which never existed.

  I hope this helps.

• 21. Barbara  |  March 2nd, 2009 at 12:46 am

  Kevin - Thank you for your time. I don’t put much faith into anything the infamous Ted Bundy said. He denied any guilt until the very end (even to his mother and wife). Everyone knows that Ted took a lot of secrets to his grave, only letting out little tidbits of what happened when it benefited him to do so. Maybe he had something more to hide about his trip south. I’ve made the trip from Columbus to Florida several times on vacation and it’s easily done in two days and Atlanta can be reached in just one long days drive. It still doesn’t take much more than that when you figure Ann Arbor and Louisville into the equation. He was in Ann Arbor and maybe curious about OSU, and being so close he decided to check it out. I guess there are some things we will never know.

• 22. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 12th, 2009 at 10:48 pm

  Bundy’s timeline:

  1/1/78 Arrived Ann Arbor, stole vehicle
  1/3/78 Stole unknown vehicle, Ann Arbor
  1/5/78 Left Ann Arbor
  1/6/78 Left Atlanta
  1/7/78 Arrived Tallahassee, signed lease at the “Oaks”

  Since he said he’d left the keys in the car in Atlanta, it’s easy to believe it was stolen (again) and never recovered. But there could be another reason they didn’t find it in Atlanta: it was never left there. He could have gone another way. You said he stopped in Louisville. How do you know that? And why? Wouldn’t he have taken I-75 straight on down? Did he get lost or was he turning away from Atlanta?

• 23. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 13th, 2009 at 12:19 am

  Hi Richard–

  In the 1980’s, Bundy was interviewed by Dr. Ronald Holmes, then a criminology professor at the University of Louisville. When Ted found out he was from Louisville, he mentioned to Holmes about stopping in Louisville, where he exited the freeway, and where he stopped to eat. Of course, Holmes knew he was telling the truth because he knew the area well, and knew the restaurant. I too remember the place, and while it is now long-gone, I pass the location every morning.

  As far as to why Bundy took this route, I cannot say; however, it is my opinion that he came through Louisville as he said to Holmes (and Holmes said to me), and continued (we can assume ) through Nashville, and on to Atlanta. And as far as cars being stolen and never seen again, this was standard procedure for a number of vehicles stolen back in the 1970’s and 1980’s.

• 24. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 13th, 2009 at 12:22 am

  Richard–
  One more thing: Bundy did get lost leaving Ann Arbor. Not only was Ted a bad driver, but he wasn’t always so good with directions.

  KMS

• 25. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 13th, 2009 at 9:41 am

  Hi Kevin,

  I wouldn’t assume anything with Ted. Based on what you say, it looks like he did stop in Louisville. That’s significant. I’ve suspected for some time that his destination was other than Atlanta. If he deliberately “turned right at Cincinnati,” that bolsters my suspicion. The Nashville route adds three hours to an already long drive if he was headed to Atlanta, so why go that way? Any idea what day? I ask because the FBI says one thing (see my previous post) and Michaud & Aynesworth say another.

  M&A:
  1/1/78 Arrived Ann Arbor
  1/4/78 Stole vehicle (5PM), left Ann Arbor
  1/6/78 Left Atlanta
  1/7/78 Arrived Tallahassee, signed lease at the “Oaks”

  They differ from the second through the fifth. It makes a difference when he left Ann Arbor because M&A’s account gives him an extra day. Also, the FBI has him stealing two cars in Ann Arbor, not one.

  The problem with a lot of this information is I don’t know what it’s based on: facts (for example stolen car reports) or “Ted said.”

  I’m looking forward to you book, by the way.

• 26. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 13th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

  Hi Richard–

  Yes, you’re right: We can’t assume anything with Ted! However, I suspect that the time-line he gave to Michaud and Aynesworth is probably an honest assessment by Bundy, as there would have been no reason to lie about such a thing. Of course, he could be wrong concerning some of this logistical information he’s given people, but again, if that is so, it’s probably just an error of memory.

  I would have to recheck the manuscript, but I follow the M&A time-line as far as when he headed south. That is, they gave a date, said it was a Tuesday, and continued with the story, etc. I then deduced his day of departure from Ann Arbor, and took note of the fact that they said he slept awhile that night and continued south. So I have his arrival in Louisville the following morning, without giving an exact time, because the exact time is unknown. Now, the drive from Louisville to Atlanta, even in those days when the speed limit was lower than it is today, could be made in 8 or so hours. And unless he ate again, he’d only have to stop once for gas. Of course, from Atlanta, Bundy caught a bus to Tallahassee.

  Also, Richard, I can see that you’re a stickler for details, and I like that. Some folks don’t like the little details, but I do. And thank you for your comment about the book; a book I think you’ll very much enjoy as I follow Bundy and his trail of murder very closely, with many new things for the reader to discover.

  KMS

• 27. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 13th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

  Hi Kevin,

  Sounds like you’re going to detail Ted’s southward journey in your book so I’ll wait to read that. But it is odd to find him 100 miles further west than he should be.

  As you suggested, Bundy did err from time to time in recalling certain events and I agree he had nothing to hide about his trip from Colorado to Michigan. Beyond that, I’m not so sure.

  Serial killers tend to be con men which is why one needs to examine everything in detail. The easiest thing for a con man to get you to believe is what you want to believe. But if you check things thoroughly, you’ll often find the facts point to something different.

  Take care,
  Richard

  PS Tell your publisher to hurry it up.

• 28. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 14th, 2009 at 1:08 am

  Hey Richard–

  Ted was both an accomplished liar and killer, to be sure. A pure sociopath. You have to double-check (as best you can) everything they say.

  I don’t spend a great deal of time describing his journey from Ann Arbor to Tallahassee, but I do mention his stop in Louisville, and the conversation he and Holmes had about it. Those things that will jump out and surprise readers ( things that I’ve previously hinted about), can, of course, be found throughout the book. But as far as his trip south (beyond his Louisville visit) there won’t be any new revelations.

  As mentioned in some of my above posts, the book may be out as early as summer, but if not, no later than the fall of this year.

  After you read it, Richard, let me know what you think.

  See ya,

  Kevin

• 29. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 14th, 2009 at 12:14 pm

  I guess we won’t learn where he had lunch. I double checked and the penalty for going by way of Louisville is 65 miles or one hour - not three. I’ll let you know what I think after I read the book.

• 30. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 14th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

  I provide the name of the restaurant and its location in downtown Louisville, and I mention it again during the Florida section of the book, as Bundy became a regular at a similar establishment while living in Tallahassee.

• 31. Barbara  |  March 16th, 2009 at 9:26 pm

  Kevin –I agree with the post made by Richard on 13 March about not assuming anything with Ted. You referenced the interview by Dr. Holmes, obviously Ted was in Louisville at some time in his life since he was able to tell about the restaurant and the area but it doesn’t necessarily mean that he was there in 1978 unless that’s been proven. I agree that he would have had nothing to hide about his travels from Colorado to Ann Arbor. I don’t agree that he had nothing to hide about the rest of the trip. I believe that the story he told about traveling through Louisville on his way to Atlanta from Michigan may have been intended to mislead from what his real intentions were. I believe he was headed for the Midwest because he had probably been here before and it may have been somewhat familiar to him rather than going to a strange place.  For some reason shortly after arriving in the Midwest he decided to go south to Florida, it may have been that the police were close on his trail or even that it was just too cold in the Midwest. In prison he was trying to prolong his life but he was probably thinking that if they were going to execute him eventually, why give them every detail, Bundy had proclaimed his innocence for years. Authorities suspected that he did far more than what he admitted to. I don’t believe anything Ted said unless there were witnesses to prove it.

• 32. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 17th, 2009 at 12:38 am

  It seems conclusive to me (and I assume it does to Richard per his above post) that he stopped in Louisville based on Bundy’s conversation with Dr. Holmes. It must be remembered too, that Ted Bundy had innumerable reasons to lie when it came to murder, and to his very convoluted feelings about women. But to lie about something so meaningless as what city in which he stopped to eat or fill up the tank of his stolen car, seems a bit ludicrous to me. And so, as far as I’m concerned, it is an “absolute” fact; as much a fact as every other “meaningless” bit of information he gave about his travels ( towards the end of his life when he had little to hide), or his highly-developed ability to steal; a skill he had proudly honed since boyhood.

  Of course, people are allowed to believe anything they want to believe about Ted Bundy or anyone else on the planet. But I’ve learned from years of experience, that if you really want to get at the facts of a situation, or an individual, if you study them carefully, you’ll usually be able to separate fact from fiction. Perhaps not every time, but most of the time. And Ted Bundy wasn’t any different in that respect, as far as I’m concerned.

• 33. nora  |  March 17th, 2009 at 9:15 am

  divino guapo elegante e inteligente ted bundy lastima que se dedico mas a los crimines que a su brillante carrera de abogado y psicologo !!!!!!parecia el rodolfo valentino de los asesinos en serie

• 34. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 17th, 2009 at 9:45 am

  I’d love to respond, but I haven’t a clue as to what Nora is saying. Anybody care to translate?

• 35. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 18th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

  It looks like:

  “It’s a pity that the divine, good-looking, elegant, and intelligent Ted Bundy was more dedicated to crimes than to a brilliant career as a lawyer or psychologist. He was the Rudolf Valentino of serial killers!”

  - more or less.

• 36. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 18th, 2009 at 1:45 pm

  Thank you, Richard.

• 37. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 18th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

  Kevin, in your research into Bundy did you come across anything about Robert Lewis?

• 38. george mcfadden  |  March 18th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

  kevin,im very much looking forward to the book,having studied bundy for years.i was wondering if you discuss the following:when bundy began to kill,as well as the true scope of his crimes;the likely circumstances surrounding the lake sam murders and his post conviction relationships with agent hagamier and attorney diana wiener.thanks.

• 39. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 18th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

  You know, Richard, in my research, I came upon hundreds of names, and to be honest, I can’t recall the name Robert Lewis. This is not to say I didn’t see his name If he had a connection to this tale somehow, I just can’t recall. If you give me additional info. it might rattle the cage of my mind, and something might pop out.

• 40. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 18th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

  Hi George,

  My book covers Ted Bundy from high chair to electric chair, if you will, LOL! Actually, it covers his life from birth to death, but I thought a little levity here might do us all some good.

  Anyway, it is an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders, and as such, it will provide the reader with a full accounting of each crime, as well as many new and important facts I uncovered along the way. It, as I mentioned above,is not a biography in the truest sense, but I still present everything important pertaining to Ted’s early life, his gradual development into the monster he became, and an explanation concerning other pertinent facts about him during his life of murder. Of course, You’ll have to wait for the book to understand what I’m saying here, but I’m sure you understand.

  I had the pleasure of speaking with Bill Hagmaier on several occasions, and I always found him to be extremely helpful as he endeavored to answer all of my questions. And frankly I found him to be a very nice guy. However, I do not cover the end-time confessions of Bundy in great detail, although the facts of said confessions are mentioned in several places.

  As far as Ms. Wiener, I believe I quote her at least once in the book, perhaps twice, but again, it wouldn’t be an in-depth look into Bundy’s relationship with her.

  I hope you enjoy the book.

  Kevin

• 41. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 18th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

  In M&A’s “Conversations” book there’s one parenthetical reference to Bobby Lewis being Bundy’s best friend on Death Row. In all the Bundy literature there are no other references. I was curious whether or not there might be anything about their relationship in your book.

• 42. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 18th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

  I must have also read this in “Conversations” but I don’t recall it off-hand, as they say. And no, there is nothing in the book about this.

• 43. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 18th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

  OK, I was just curious. Sounds like you book has a broader scope than I originally thought. I’m looking forward to reading it.

• 44. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 18th, 2009 at 10:38 pm

  Thanks, Richard. I think you’re gonna like it.

• 45. Fiz (UK)  |  March 19th, 2009 at 6:04 am

  I so wish Amazon would put it up so I can pre-order it!

• 46. george mcfadden  |  March 19th, 2009 at 6:47 am

  bobby lewis was indeed a friend of bundy on the row.he also gained some cred for escaping from same said place(albeit for a week).i guess great minds think alike.he acted ,years later as a kind of jailhouse lawyer for danny rolling.didnt work out too well for danny though.

• 47. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 19th, 2009 at 9:06 am

  Thanks, Fiz. It’ll be here before you know it!

• 48. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 19th, 2009 at 9:20 am

  George–

  Yeah, I still can’t recall reading about Lewis, but at least I now know where he fits in this thing. And Rolling, yes… nothing was going to save him from taking a seat in the chair, or stretching out the arm (I can’t remember which) and exiting this world.

• 49. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 19th, 2009 at 10:56 am

  Lewis is referenced in Aynesworth’s 2/5/81 conversation with Bundy: p 263 or 269 depending which edition of “Conversations” you have.

• 50. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 19th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

  Well, Richard, since I’m now mildly curious, I’ll head to my bookshelf and check it out. Thanks for the info.

• 51. george mcfadden  |  March 21st, 2009 at 3:41 am

  kevin,one thing im very curious about as i await the publication of your book-which of the works on bundy do you feel most accurately reflect ted himself and which play into the hype,hysteria,and whatnot?one of the reasons i look forward to your work is that it will focus on the crimes and the killer and not media bullshit.so i just want to know what you found impressive(or otherwise)during your research.as always,thank you for your time.

• 52. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 21st, 2009 at 11:49 am

  You know, George, writers have a way of formulating their thoughts for the printed page, and as such, each have their own “voice”, if you will. In the case of Theodore Bundy, many of the books were written by those who knew him, and in fact, are written from that particular perspective with each having their own unique flavor. For example, Richard Larsen’s “The Deliberate Stranger” is excellent, and because Larsen knew Bundy before the killings started (and he kept up his contact with him throughout the years) it has a certain intimacy to it often lacking in other works. Then, of course, you have the works of Michaud & Aynesworth, guys who had unfettered access to the killer for interviews, etc, but whose dealing with him were not exactly on the same level as Larsen’s. Yet all of the above are excellent works. Then, if you turn to those books written by his former attorneys, you have even less (in my opinion) intimacy than the earlier works, yet you can still find many important things within their work. So I found most of the books about Bundy to be quite interesting indeed, although I do have my favorites, and not necessarily in this order:

  The Deliberate Stranger, by Richard Larsen

  Ted Bundy: The Killer Next door, by Steve Winn and David Merrill

  The works of Michaud & Aynesworth

  As I mentioned in a post above, I very much wish I could have gotten to know Richard Larsen. I did a tremendous amount of research for my book, leaving no proverbial stone unturned; and this includes individuals involved in the case, and, in some cases, the recovering of some long-lost documents. As a journalist, Larsen would have appreciated that, and I believe, enjoyed hearing about the direction my book has taken. I’m really sorry he passed before we could meet.

  Now, some folks (I believe) are protective of their works: That is, they believe their contribution is the Alpha & Omega on the subject, and those interlopers who presume to write about what they consider “their own” are not welcome. And, without revealing the particulars of this incident, here is what I mean: After writing the article for “Snitch”, I emailed a copy to an author of one of the books about Ted, as I believed he would find it most interesting, which he did. However, a number of months later, after deciding to write a book about the crimes, I again contacted him, requesting if, on occasion, I might ask him questions as they arise, and I informed him that he could even make his responses brief (I didn’t want to burden him should he be busy with other things). Well, I received no response this time, and I believe it may be a case of what I mentioned above. He just wasn’t going to participate (or provide me with any help) in something he felt was “his”. If this was the case, than it was petty thinking indeed, and completely without foundation. It was like saying: ” Only those who are personally involved in something are qualified to writer about it” which, of course, is absurd. But such things never bother me; I just keep forging ahead.

  I hope this helps, George.

  Kevin

• 53. george mcfadden  |  March 22nd, 2009 at 4:29 am

  kevin-hi-its funny,im rereading “thekiller next door”as it was originally the first book i read on the subject.one of the things that strike me is its tone of impartiality that slowly,almost imperceptiblly goes to a slow dissolve at the end.these were seattle based journalists from what i understand.i have many problems with keppel.as with rule,he tailored his mastery over the subject when he had in fact none.did he kill 100 or30?keppel would prefer it be100.sells more books.victims families notwithstanding.as a sideo note diana weiner acted as teds girlfriend -so to speakduring his last year or so and more importantly orchestrated those disasterous confessions.i have heard that she was barred from seeing bundy on his last day because they were earlier caught in an “inappropriate act” during a legal visit anyway,i too like larsen(much more than some others)as always ,thank you for your time teie

• 54. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 22nd, 2009 at 1:04 pm

  Hi George–

  In the above post I spoke of writing styles, so now I’ll speak about personalities. One of the funniest things I encountered while doing my research, was how often the “big guns” who worked the Bundy murders have opinions about their co-investigators in other states. Some of these folks are friends, while others can’t stand each other. Of course, I would just sit there and nod my head while listening to them; or, if on the phone, say “sure”, or something like that. However, great friendships were forged as well from working together in a murder investigation spanning at least six states.
  too funny.

  Let me also say this: I like everybody I had a chance to work with, and this includes Jerry Thompson out of Salt Lake, Mike Fisher, the former Colorado investigator, Don Patchen from Florida, Bob Kepple out of Washington State, and all the others. Each of them, in their own way, tried to help me, and never attempted to cut a face-to-face meeting short, or rush me off the phone when I had a question, or a series of questions.

  The only person who didn’t return my call was Ann Rule (I had left a message on her voice mail) but that didn’t upset me. I had only a couple of questions for her, anyway; and I certainly don’t hold any hard feelings over it. What happened could have been a mere oversight on her part, or perhaps, it could have something to do with some long-ago situations, and here’s what I mean: When I began my investigation into the Washington murders, I first located Bob Keppel. During our somewhat lengthy conversations, I believe he mentioned that he keeps in contact with Ann; that they are friends. Well, Ann Rule was on good terms years ago with a couple of people from Louisville (a good friend of mine, and another individual he worked with) and they actually did some seminars together. However, somehow. along the way, a disagreement arose between the three of them and the “friendship” ended. Of course, when I first introduced myself to Keppel (all our dealings were by phone and email) I explained about how my friend introduced me to Jerry Thompson, which led to my article in “Snitch, which in turn was the imputes for my book. But at no time did I mention the problem between Rule, my friend, or the other person. However, If Keppel mentioned to her about “this guy from Louisville” writing a book about Ted, or showed her the “Snitch” article I mailed him as a courtesy, that would probably be enough for her not to return my call. Then again, maybe my message got lost in the mix, somehow, but I do find it interesting of all the contacts I’ve made over the past two plus years, she is the only person not to return my call. But whatever it was, I’m sure she’s a nice lady, and I like her work (though her book on Bundy is not one of my favorites).

  As far as one of Bundy’s attorneys being too “close” to him, I will say this: I was told by one of the top investigators in the case (I can’t say which one) that an attorney for Ted (he didn’t name her) was sitting very close to Bundy and rubbing his back as he entered the room. He didn’t elaborate on it, but he made it clear to me how very odd it struck him. Of course, there is NO WAY I’d ever put that in the book. Indeed, I’ve heard things that could easily go into a tabloid they’re so bizarre, but those things are staying out too.

  I believe one of the guys (and can’t remember if it’s Merrill or Winn) is from Salt Lake, and in fact, worked (and may still work) at a newspaper in the state; but I don’t think it’s the Salt Lake Tribune.

  Kevin

• 55. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 22nd, 2009 at 2:45 pm

  George–

  Just a quick addition to my above thoughts: I too like “The Killer Next Door”. When I began obtaining all of the books about Ted, I was lucky to find Winn and Merrill’s book (in mass-market paperback) through ABE Books for a buck plus shipping, no less. I was also able to obtain a hardback of Larsen’s book for 14 dollars from a bookstore in Bountiful, Utah, which of course, is the same town in which Bundy snatched Debbie Kent after she left a high school play. Anyway, I just thought you might find that interesting.

• 56. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 22nd, 2009 at 5:43 pm

  George- And a brief clarification: Those investigators who have problems with other co-investigators, as I mentioned above, were not the “top” individuals we have all come to know so well, but would have been someone perhaps close to them. As such, whenever an unfavorable comment was unleashed in my presence (be it over the phone, or face-to-face), it was usually someone connected quite close to the cases in one way or another, be it a police person, or those who dealt with Bundy, say, in the medical end of things who had some dealings with a particular person at a particular PD; or perhaps someone in the field of academics who had dealings with Ted and who was on speaking-terms with some of the top detectives as well. On only one occasion did I hear of one of the main investigators speak a disparaging comment concerning one of their own in another state. The rest were people “swirling” around in the mix, if you will. But in all cases (and there were only a few) I felt the comments to be rather petty, and I was sorry to hear them. Anyway, I thought that needed a little clarification.

• 57. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 22nd, 2009 at 6:14 pm

  You were writing in a previous post about those who do not welcome “interlopers.” What will be your attitude toward others who might presume to write about this subject (assuming there will be anything left to write about)?

  Do you feel you’ve pretty much found the last pieces of the puzzle that still could be found (excluding what Bundy took with him to the grave, of course)?

• 58. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 22nd, 2009 at 9:03 pm

  Great question, Richard!

  While it is without question that I’ve broken new ground with my book as it relates to numerous cases, I in no way believe I’ve found every tidbit or nugget when it comes to information about Bundy. However, once the book hits the proverbial streets, it will be impossible for anyone else to capitalize upon that which I’ve uncovered, so I’m not quite sure what “new” things they could come up with, but that doesn’t mean they could not write an interesting work about Ted. It all depends on how determined a person can be in their decision to write the book in the first place; how good are they at researching a subject; how well they can track down folks (and get them to talk to you!) etc. It takes a tremendous amount of determination to write a really good book; a book you can sell to a publisher.

  And so, to answer your question: Once my book is published, yes, I will answer any and all questions put to me about this book, and I’ll never be even the least bit threatened by a prospective author wanting to write about Ted Bundy. Indeed, if they are able to produce an excellent book about the case, if it is well-researched and documented, I would no doubt purchase a copy myself. That’s just the kind of person I am.

  Thanks again for the question.

• 59. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 23rd, 2009 at 1:21 pm

  Good answer too.

  Have you given thought to the issue of so-called “murderbilia” since your Glad bag would be considered such?

• 60. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 23rd, 2009 at 3:07 pm

  Yes, I do have some thoughts on “murderbilla”. While I don’t think killers should profit from the sale of items having to do with their crimes, I believe the items themselves are “historical” and, for the most part, worthy to be saved. For example, Ted Bundy’s VW is now owned by a member of the band KORN. Now, let’s say that sometime down the road he were to donate it to the Smithsonian Institution, or some other well-established museum. And let’s say that in 30 or 40 years they have a display of sorts, by then, everyone involved with the crimes (I’m thinking of the victims families, here) will for the most part be dead. So at that time everyone strolling by the exhibit will be able to view it in a context not associated with pain or distress, if you will. So, should the car be destroyed, like a certain official once said? I don’t think so, no, for it’s an item that, like it or not, is part of history. Will it be a major loss to society if it is destroyed through “an act of god” as the insurance companies say? Not, not at all. But I don’t believe those “things” connected with murder are such that we have to obliterate them because of what someone did with them; on the contrary, in many cases, (for future generations) they should be saved.

  It is my understanding that John Wayne Gacy gave the FBI guy Robert Ressler one of his paintings, and he kept it. Someone owns the .38 snub nose that Jack Ruby used to kill Lee Oswald. And Jerry Thompson kept the items taken from Ted Bundy in 1975. So what?

  In fact, I asked Jerry what he plans to do with all that stuff, and even suggested it might be a good idea giving it to a police museum, or something of that nature, one day. And personally, like I said in the interview above, if I wouldn’t have crossed paths with Ted Bundy’s murder kit, I would never have written an article for “Snitch” , nor would I have written my book on Bundy. So in my case, certainly, running in to that murderbilla, was a plus indeed. And of course, it goes without saying, that my sympathies are, and always will be, with the victims of crime. I just don’t think we should destroy everything connected to crime, either.

• 61. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 25th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

  Andrea McNichol, writing in “Handwriting Analysis: Putting it to Work for You,” claims that in bars or discos Bundy would use a waitress to pass to a girl who interested him a drink with a note inviting her to join him. If she accepted, she would become his next victim. Eventually an investigator in one state obtained from another state one of those notes that had been found with a body. He compared it to one found in his state and, when they matched, they realized they were looking for one man.

  I never heard anything like that before. Is this bogus?

• 62. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 25th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

  Bundy never had any problem approaching women, be they in taverns, in the streets, or at the lakes. He strolled up to Liz Kendall, his girlfriend of six years, when they initially met one night at a bar. So I personally don’t believe there is much to this theory; I certainly didn’t encounter it during my research. But who knows?

• 63. george mcfadden  |  March 27th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

  hi kevin.you know,teds appellate attorneys (nelson,coleman,et al)were not adverse to thinking outside the box at times.they hired art norman ,to develop a theory as to the nature of teds madness.norman noted how slasher flicks would stimulate him to distraction and how he would play word games with the dr regarding the circumstances of his crimes.i also think this marked the entry of diana weiner.she was attractive ,resembled some of the victims ,and norman thought,might induce the “other”ted.also,in regard to larsens book,there was a particularly interesting section on the laura aime case.it was speculated that ted had a personal relationship with her prior to the murder.if so,that would throw the usual theories about his methodology out the window,huh ?anyway,thanx again for your time and patience.

• 64. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 27th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

  Hi George–

  Yes, I know Ted apparently spent many hours with Norman towards the end, and I use a quote from an article concerning something Ted told him which, I believe, is probably the truth.
  I was never able to locate Norman, but after finding the article, that’s all I needed anyway. I wasn’t really interested in theories as to “why” Ted did a certain thing, but only those things that were pertinent to the murders that he admitted to near the end.

  One thing interesting about Ted’s methodology when it came to murder is that it could change on a whim. However, Bundy, at times, made it clear to investigators, that he never wanted to hurt those he “knew”. And while he thought about murdering Liz Kendall on two occasions, he never carried out those thoughts. So if he did get to know Laura Aime in some capacity, it was probably not an in-depth relationship, and may have been on the par with his “possible” connection to Lynda Ann Healy; a person he no doubt had seen, and perhaps spoken with on one or two occasions. But again, when we’re talking about possible connections, we are dealing mostly in the realm of speculation, and it is at this intersection (where facts meet theory) that we must be very careful.

  But of course, I cover the Amie murder in detail in my book, but I leave out this possible connection she may have had with Ted prior to her disappearance, as I could not personally substantiate the connection. On a personal note, I have a friend that knew the Aime family quite well, and this person spent time with Mr. Aime only a few years after the murder of Laura occurred. His stories of the family after the loss of their daughter are quite heartbreaking, and my friend believes her death may have actually shortened Mr. Aimes life, such was his grief. Those family members who lose a loved one to murder receive a death sentence too, and it’s one they will carry the rest of their lives. Very sad.

  Nice talking with you, George.

• 65. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 27th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

  Just a brief note to let everyone know that my book, “The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History”, is now being displayed on McFarland’s website with a publication time of “Spring/ Summer 2009″. I know I promised some of the readers of Executed Today that I would pass along additional info. as I received it, so here it is.

• 66. Marian Jones  |  March 28th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

  Hi Kevin,

  Just ordered your book, sounds fascinating. I found your website (again) after doing research on Bundy for a bitemark assignment display I am preparing as part of my CSI studies. Hard to find pictures of the evidence presented at trial. Most are out of focus or poor reproductions. Thanks for doing what you do. Although I am sure some would disagree, I find human behaviour very interesting and an opportunity to learn more about people we come in contact with everyday but just don’t realize it.

• 67. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 28th, 2009 at 3:23 pm

  Hi Marion–

  Thanks for the order. I’m sure you’re going to enjoy the book immensely, especially if you cut-your-teeth on some of the previous books about Ted; for if that’s so, you’ll easily recognize the new stuff that’s sprinkled throughout the book.

  And, oh yes, human behavior: We certainly still have questions about that, especially when we gaze upon the sociopaths among us. I believe our interest in such folks is directly related to our inability to understand them. That is, how can a guy like Bundy be so different than the rest of us? How exactly did he become a monster? It’s very difficult (and disturbing) for the average person to even contemplate. This is one reason I’ll continue to write about such people; I guess I’m still looking for answers myself, LOL!

• 68. Richard A. Duffus  |  March 28th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

  In a forum I visit every so often I posted a new thread with a link to the McFarland page for ordering your book.

  Of course I ordered one. Are you going to do any book signings?

• 69. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 28th, 2009 at 5:43 pm

  Richard–

  Thanks for the order, and the thread…

  I know a Borders Bookstore manager here in Louisville wants me to do one, but beyond that, I don’t know as of yet. Of course, if I am asked, and if I’m able to do so (depending on which state it’s located, and when) I’ll be happy to do it, of course. So I guess it’s a wait-and-see time, at the moment.

  Thanks again.

• 70. ravensdottir  |  March 28th, 2009 at 8:30 pm

  As for why people become monsters, viz. nature vs. nurture: I have a very close friend whose father was likely an uncaught serial killer. He had all the hallmarks the profilers look for, the homicidal triad, the double life, long periods of disappearing, etc. He also beat and tormented his children until they all fled. She was one of 7 in her family, has the x-rays to back up her stories, yet is a stable, sane, loving and thoughtful person with a small circle of close friends. Those she’s told her secrets generally keep quiet. But here is an example of a child being through a brutal childhood & choosing to be a contributing member of society. Yet another layer to the mystery.

• 71. Jason Nelson  |  March 28th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

  Hi Richard. I, myself, would also be interested in purchasing your book on Ted Bundy and would also like to know whether would be shipping your book overseas (I am living in the UK)? many thanks

• 72. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 28th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

  Hi Ravensdottir–

  Serial killer or not, it is a terrible person who abuses their children. I never could understand those who mistreat their kids, and even if the child grows up fairly well adjusted, there will always be vestiges of pain lurking somewhere in the soul of that individual. Perhaps some will actually be able to rid themselves of it along the way, but I believe they’re in the minority. At least, that has been my take on it.

• 73. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 28th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

  Hi Jason–

  You can order the book now from McFarland, but it will also be available after publication from Barnes & Noble, Amazon, etc. Of course, in the UK, I don’t see why you couldn’t order it through your local bookstore as well.

  Kevin

• 74. Jason Nelson  |  March 29th, 2009 at 11:22 am

  Thanks for the feedback. I will place an order for this book this friday, I am really looking to it.
  Many thanks

• 75. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  March 29th, 2009 at 6:20 pm

  Thanks, Jason, I think your gonna like the book!

  Kevin

• 76. george mcfadden  |  April 3rd, 2009 at 2:25 am

  kevin,hello.if you dont mind,a few random thoughts.ted is often associated with the concept of dualism(jekyll and hyde and so forth.in a way he was more successfull in creating this enduring legacy than anything else.i have studied dostoevsky and in his greatest works redemption was found by the criminal accepting the necessity of confession and repentence.all of these fictional characters were obssessed with the ubermensch idea and were ultimately destroyed by it.they did feel remorse.what makes ted bundy unique is that he never felt any at all.for instance ,he told bill hagmaier he had made up the demonic voice he described to dorothy lewis.he felt he had to do this because people wouldnt understand how you would earmark a kill aweek before time.but uninformed people dont get there was no second side to ted bundy,and he never changed.thanx again kevin.

• 77. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 3rd, 2009 at 10:00 am

  Hi George–

  While I don’t know a great deal about Dostoevsky, I feel I know quite a bit about Ted. And you’re correct what he told Hagmaier about the voices. However, one aspect of this thing that Ted never denied was the internal pressure that would build over time where he would clearly recognize the need to kill was getting stronger. He would also speak of returning to normal after the act had occurred. There is even the story where he explains (in the third person) how he picked up a girl hitchhiking, had consensual sex with her, bur did not murder her because that overwhelming drive to do so was not present. He did have the thought to do so, mind you, which means that, pressure or not, Ted enjoyed killing. But he felt it wouldn’t be right to kill her under the present circumstances, and she left his presence never the wiser.

  So you’re right, Ted Bundy was who he was, and was a master at concealing his true identity. That said, he understood (and apparently didn’t resist) the altered-state of mind in which many of the murders were committed; a state of mind sometimes expressed by other killers during the act of taking a life.

  Bundy is a fiend that will forever have a sense of mystery attached to him because of the highly developed mask he showed the world on a daily basis, and the diabolical true-self which lived just behind his eyes.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 78. Headsman  |  April 3rd, 2009 at 3:55 pm

  Though distinctly tangential here, the medium at hand obliges me to observe that Dostoyevsky was himself almost executed.

  And now, back to Ted.

• 79. Richard A. Duffus  |  April 3rd, 2009 at 6:58 pm

  So you basically see him as a wolf in sheep’s clothing?

• 80. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 3rd, 2009 at 7:39 pm

  A pure predatory animal, little more than a shark. Indeed, there are places within the book where I specifically point out his predatory hunting skills and compare them to those in the lower order. Very strange for a human to turn out this way. But again, this is the one reason we’re so interested in these monsters.

• 81. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 3rd, 2009 at 7:43 pm

  Headsman–

  I didn’t know ‘Dos’ came so close to getting the proverbial axe, but I suppose he touched a cord in somebody, LOL!

• 82. Richard A. Duffus  |  April 3rd, 2009 at 8:23 pm

  Do you think, when he was a little boy, he was all about snips and snails and puppy dog tails?

• 83. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 pm

  I believe Bundy developed odd thinking patterns as a small boy, and I doubt that he ever saw them at the time as being odd. As he grew older, however, he could easily recognize the strangeness in his thinking, but as a sociopath, he just didn’t care. And no matter how normal he appeared to those around him during his formative years, he was anything but normal, and his broken personality (if I may use that term) was the perfect breeding ground for what he became. In other words, the seeds which made him a monster were there all the time.

• 84. Simon  |  April 7th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

  Hello I’m writing my own thing about Ted Bundy’s life. I was wondering about all the footage from the courtroom. Did you get to view that? All i can find is little clips on youtube which aren’t much help. Can you purchase it somewhere? Also, i cant wait to read your book

• 85. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 7th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

  Hi Simon–

  I remember watching a little of that on TV years ago, but I didn’t use any of that coverage in my research, so I don’t know how much still exists. However, you can contact the main TV networks (ABC, NBC, CBS) to see what they have available. I’m sure somebody still has hours of it on video tape, even if it might be hiding in their archives. And good luck with your project.

  I just remembered, you might try contacting the State Archives of Florida, as they may have the full collection at that site. Go to their website and you should find something worthwhile as you navigate their collection.

  KMS

• 86. Colorado Visitor  |  April 8th, 2009 at 11:25 pm

  Did Ted Bundy ever drive a white truck, possibly a Jeep or a Bronco in the 1975 timeframe? This would be around the Snowmass murder…Anyone know about that?

• 87. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 8th, 2009 at 11:55 pm

  Hi CV–

  The only car Bundy used during his murderous excursions into Colorado that winter of ‘75 would have been his infamous beige VW; the same car the authorities would impound forever after his 1975 arrest. By that time (and despite repeated cleanings by Ted), the vehicle was a veritable depository of evidence in the form of dried blood and hair.

  Of course, Bundy would later steal any car made available to him through the carelessness of the owners who happened to leave the keys dangling in the ignition, or placed conveniently nearby. And, of course, this would include his second escape from the above mentioned state.

  KMS

• 88. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 9th, 2009 at 12:02 am

  Let us make that “repository” rather than “depository”, as it fits a bit better. Just a small point, I know.

• 89. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 9th, 2009 at 1:26 am

  A brief addition to my comment (#87) above concerning Bundy’s car, and its forever impounding: When Ted was arrested in August of 1975, he quickly understood the implications of his arrest, and the very real possibility Utah authorities were going to be prying very closely into his life. As such, he understood that his favorite car would need to be jettisoned, and he soon sold it to a teenager from Sandy, Utah. However, the police just as quickly retrieved it from the kid, and from that point forward, Bundy’s car was “impounded” for many years. I, of course, cover this in the book.

• 90. Simon  |  April 9th, 2009 at 8:16 am

  Thank you for the advice on where to look for courtroom footage. I’ve had a little look around on the Florida State Archives website, haven’t found anything yet, but i’ll keep looking. Do you have an email address i can contact you on to ask you questions privately?

  Simon

• 91. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 9th, 2009 at 9:09 am

  You’re quite welcome. As to the email address, if you contact the Headsman, he can pass your email address to me and I can get back with you.

  KMS

• 92. george mcfadden  |  April 10th, 2009 at 3:26 am

  Hello.Just in reference to Simons question,Irecall reading in Polly Nelsons book about her firms attempt to get as much of the trial footage as possible.To her disappointment(and she supeonaed these records),the only film left over were the same snippets weve all seen over and over.they claimed the rest had all been taped over.Kevin,do you think Bundy craved the spotlight ,as many claim?Did he use his cat and mouse sessions with Keppel and others as a substitution for the murderous activities he engaged in when he was free?thanx,as always

• 93. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 10th, 2009 at 9:24 am

  Hi George–

  Well, I nearly had my comments completed, when a power surge just knocked me off-line. So here we go again:

  First, that’s too bad about the tapes of the Florida trials. Let’s hope that somewhere (perhaps at the aforementioned networks) they still exist, just waiting discovery by some determined researcher. It’s not beyond the realm of possibility.

  And yes, Ted did crave the spotlight, and no more so than in Florida, where he practically had a world stage before him. You must remember, Bundy had a problem with insecurity his entire life. As such, he reveled in the notoriety he received, even if it was from being accused of committing multiple murders. Odd, isn’t it?

  As to his confessions with Bob Keppel, I will say this: Bundy internally guarded his secrets of murder. He considered them his (and told authorities as much) and they were his to relish, if you will, in his private moments ( that’s how mentally imbalanced he was). You can see this in the third-person conversations he had with Stephen Michaud and Hugh Aynesworth. By the time he got to Keppel, it was “put-up or shut-up” and he knew he’d have to give real information if he wanted to delay his execution; something that didn’t, and wasn’t going to happen. And so there are some very astounding things he admitted to; things that he would have preferred to keep to himself forever. Of course, Bundy still had many secrets he took to the grave with him, just not as many as he originally planned.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 94. george mcfadden  |  April 14th, 2009 at 12:13 pm

  Hi Kevin-Just a few questions and/or thoughts.Ive always been curious about Teds abortive plea bargain in Florida.He certainly had to have known the death penalty was near inevitable at that point.Or did he?Reminds me of Dr Tanays diagnostic report to his defense attorneys.He seemed to work,if not against his attorneys,certainly against his own interests.Given how he tried to avoid execution once the sentence was imposed ,Iwonder what your thoughts are on this. Also,do you cover some of the murders Ted has long been suspected of,but did not confess to?I refer ,in part,to cases such as Ann Marie Burr,Lonnie Trumbull etc.Thank you,Kevin.

• 95. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 14th, 2009 at 1:16 pm

  Hi George–

  Yes, Dr. T had Bundy pegged quite correctly, and provided Mike Minerva and team with an excellent report as to what they were up against in defending him; a frustrating position for a defense attorney to be in, and especially so in a murder trial. I cover this aspect in the book as it is an important part of Ted’s self-destructive side.

  I cover the possibility Bundy was involved in the Burr disappearance, mostly because of what he told Dr. Holmes during an interview. True, it was made in the third-person (a style he picked up during the M&A interviews), but it has all the earmarks of a valid and truthful confession. Did Bundy snatch and kill Ann Marie Burr? I don’t know. But it would have been foolish not to include the information in my book.

  I was going to include the possible Trumbull connection, but decided against it at the last moment, due to a lack of overwhelming evidence that Ted was involved. Could he have done the deed, as they say? Maybe. But I kinda doubt it. But who knows?

  All of the “new” material in my book has to do with murders Bundy confessed to and is both solid and irrefutable. And so, I have gone to great lengths to avoid theory and hypothesis when dealing with the known murders of Theodore Bundy It was the only way for me to produce the kind of book which would stand out, if you will, and perhaps become (at least for the present time) the definitive work of Ted Bundy’s trail of murder.

  Thanks for the questions, George.

  Kevin

  A short P. S. to the readers of this site: Once the book is published, I will be more than happy to answer questions concerning my journey from my first meeting with Jerry Thompson (where this entire thing began) to the article in “Snitch” and the eventual publication of my book. I just wanted to let everyone know this ahead of time.

• 96. Richard A. Duffus  |  April 14th, 2009 at 11:17 pm

  Did or do you have access to Ted’s gasoline receipts?

• 97. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 15th, 2009 at 12:49 am

  I have the dates and locations of Bundy’s fuel purchases. I do not have copies of the actual receipts.

• 98. Richard A. Duffus  |  April 15th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

  I’m surprised the FBI didn’t record the gallons or dollars. There’s a big difference between “Ted bought 1 gallon some place on some date” and “Ted bought 10 gallons some place on some date.”

• 99. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 15th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

  Well, the police did obtain copies of the actual gas receipts, but the main thing was the date and location of the purchase. For instance, while Bundy was declaring he’d never been to Colorado, they were discovering he’d purchased gas at a station less than 30 miles (and on the same date) from where one of his victims disappeared. This solidified in their minds that he was not only a liar, but the killer of the women who had vanished from Colorado in much the same way as the girls from Utah had disappeared. In other words, these purchases would come back to haunt Bundy; evidence, which he believed, would never come into play.

• 100. Jason Nelson  |  April 18th, 2009 at 6:18 pm

  Hi Kevin

  I was wondering whether you cover what happened on the night of Chi Omega and the events that transpired which led to the unfortunate murders of the two young girls and the beatings of the other three in your book. I recently saw a Bill Hagmaier interview for a Ted Bundy Documentary in which he states that Ted actually met a girl at Sherrod’s who he planned to spend the night with. Once she agreed to meet him later, she said that she will go to collect her belongings but she never showed up. Since Ted was drinking a great deal by this time and became intoxicated, the fact that the woman stood him up infuriated him and this is apparently what spurred him on to committ the attacks on the girls in the Chi Omega Soroity House.
  The general consensus was that Bundy actually planned to commit murder before he left his rooming house since he carried two pantyhose masks and added layers of clothing on the night. Do you think he planned on harming the girl who he met at the sherrods bar or that he intended to spend a quiet night with her? I am not sure whether this is the same women who he took to his rooming house to watch a movie with during the same period.
  Jason

• 101. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 18th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

  Hi Jason–

  Yes, I cover his trail of murder in Florida very closely; indeed, I cover in great detail his entire career of murder from the assumed first killing in Washington State, to his final homicidal act at Lake City, Florida. It is an up-close-and-personal look, if you will.

  Now, as to the night of Chi Omega, I believe Ted had made numerous attempts that evening to abduct and kill a female, but was unsuccessful (I delve into the reasons for this in the book). He was in the above mentioned disco prior to the Chi O attack, and was noticed (and remembered) by some of the women in attendance. And, it is my belief, based on the police record, that because he was not successful in obtaining a willing victim (one who would willingly leave with him, that is) he decided that his best bet would be to attack the sleeping coeds living next door. I do, of course, spend many pages describing that evening and I’ve tried very hard not to leave anything of substance out. Suffice it too say that yes, Bundy had every intention of committing murder when he left the rooming house that evening. He was, in my opinion, past the point of being able to contain the violence any longer, and any woman who would have left Sherrod’s with him that evening was going to be killed. That’s just the way it is.

  As to the young lady watching TV in Bundy’s room: She too was a member of the rooming house, and she and Bundy had been on a “date” (at the expense of someone else, of course), and the two of them had been spending time together. And no, he had no intention of harming her, as he never wanted to kill someone he’d gotten to know.

  I hope this helps.

  Kevin

• 102. Jason Nelson  |  April 20th, 2009 at 9:09 am

  Thanks for that Kevin. I am now really looking forward to your book. Have there been any updates as to the release date?

  Jason

• 103. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 20th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

  No problem, Jason. McFarland publishes a great many titles each year, and while my book has a spring/summer 2009 release date, it might not actually come out til fall. It wouldn’t surprise me to see an August or September release, but of course, that’s a guess and we’ll have to wait and see. You can periodically check the McFarland website to find out more info. when it’s available.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 104. Topelius  |  April 21st, 2009 at 10:59 am

  Hi Kevin. I`m looking forward to get your book. I`m sure it will be good. I have some questions:

  I do not speak English as mother tongue and I was wondering whether the English you use is complex or not? I am able to read articles and news in English without problems, is it enough for the book? Of course I`ll have a word book but it would be more enjoyable to read without one.

  And one more about the Denise Naslund and Janice Ott murders. Were you able to find out were the two killed at the same time? This is because I was thinking that if Janice wasn`t killed before Denise, could`ve Janice escaped from the place Ted left her during the time when Ted was seeking out another victim (which turned out to be Denise)?

  Thank you again Kevin. Best wishes from Finland.

• 105. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 21st, 2009 at 11:36 am

  Hi Topelius–

  You should not have any trouble reading or understanding my book, as I don’t use any uncommon, or rarely used words from the English language. If you do see anything you don’t understand, your word guide should fix it for you.

  Near the end of Bundy’s life, he admitted to the authorities that he kept Janice Ott alive all day, and brought Denise Naslund to the same location later that afternoon. Both remained alive for a time, and then, Bundy killed one in front of the other. Of course, you can imagine the terror which gripped the one who had to watch the other die, and this is exactly how Bundy wanted it. Other peoples fear (of him) was a type of fuel, (or petrol, if in Europe) which drove Bundy forward. He loved to create terror in his victims, and he succeeded greatly at the Lake on that day. Bundy was very much a monster, wasn’t he?

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 106. Jason Nelson  |  April 21st, 2009 at 12:07 pm

  Wow. When Bundy relayed that story to H&A, I never thought that was the actual way the two girls died. That really shows how deranged Bundy was to kill those two innocent girls. He really was a monster in every sense of the word. Liz would of saw glimpses of that monster on that same night because once he arrived at her house, he was apparently very moody ( this could be explained because he was ill) and unusually quiet when he took her and her daughter out for some burgers.
  All of the murders Bundy committed were horrible and the one which horrified me the most was the murder of which he recieved the death sentence, Kim Leach. I know that Bundy never wanted to speak about the Kim Leach murder or the Chi Omega murders either in the third person or first person to anyone yet he was able to discuss the ones before that. This relates to his theory given in the Riverman book by Robert Keppel where he said that serial killers generally did not confess to murders of victims who were too close to them or too young. Although Bundy spoke to Bill Hagmaier briefly about the Kim Leach murder, do you offer theories as to what actually happened on that fateful morning?

  Thanks again Kevin.

• 107. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 21st, 2009 at 12:33 pm

  Apparently, Bundy wasn’t bothered about what people thought of him or his career of murder, as long as those murders were of adult women. But he believed that to “own up to” as they say, the killing of a mere child like Kim Leach, folks would see him in a different light. In other words, in Bundy’s compartmentalized (and deranged) mind, he would be considered more normal if admitting to killing adults instead of children; as if murdering adults would be considered acceptable when compared with the murder of a child. Strange, isn’t it?

  This is why I still think he may have played a part in the murder of the Burr girl when he was but 14 years old. True, he denied having anything to do with it at the end of his life, but Bundy was as much a liar as he was a killer, and so he may have done the deed, and if so, it must have been his first murder.

  I don’t have any new theories as to the Leach murder, but I do cover it in detail in the book.

  Thanks for the questions, Jason.

  Kevin

• 108. george mcfadden  |  April 21st, 2009 at 2:34 pm

  Hi Kevin
  I recall reading about a C.O who worked on the Row when Bundy was incarcarated there.He claimed Bundy was quite boastful regarding his career of murder,even going so far as to say that if he ever got out his next crimes would make prior ones”look like a sunday school picnic”. He would never comment on Kim Leach however.I think you’re right in that his reticence was not limited to legal concerns.Do you cover Ted’s life on the Row to any degree?
  I was also as to whether you spoke to any of Ted’s attorneys,specifically John Henry Browne or John O’Connell,as they knew him in the period following his initial arrest and trial.Margaret Good might also be interesting.I dont know that she has spoken publicly before.
  Finally,what did you think about the Kendall book?It always impressed me that she too was a victim of Ted Bundy.Imagine living with the knowledge that all those people were killed under your nose by someone you not just knew,but loved.
  thank you Kevin.Cant wait for the book.

• 109. Jason Nelson  |  April 21st, 2009 at 3:48 pm

  I think i read the same thing about the man who apparently was on watch at Starke Prison when Bundy was held on Death Row. He discussed how polite and intelligent he was. One bizarre story he mentioned was how Bundy would spend his nights on his bunk bed squeezing a cloth with both of his hands with an intense expression on his face. Whether any of his stories are to be given any weight is a matter of debate.
  That is interesting Kevin how Bundy finally felt comfortable discussing his murders, yet he would not discuss his murder of children. Maybe if he was not for his public image and the media interest, he might of spoke in detail about those. But i believe, like you said, that he wouldnt confess because peoples views of him would turn for the worse (even if they havent already) and possibly his life would of been in danger in that someone would of wanted to harm him in prison.
  Continuing from Georges comment, i am interested in the telephone calls between Jerry Thompson and Ted Bundy which gave Jerry the impression that he was a monster? I am sure that you can not divulge any details of these but I am looking forward to reading about these. I guess the perception of Bundy within the authorities was completely different to what the media had portrayed. The general public were given the impression that Ted Bundy was an All-American Boy, handsome, intelligent, charming etc. All are true to a certain extent but was a far cry to what Ted Bundy really was.

• 110. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 21st, 2009 at 5:24 pm

  Hi George–

  I don’t cover his Death Row years at all. My book really does follow his trail of murder very closely, but as you will see once you have a copy in your hands, I spend far less time on the trial aspect of his life, for those things have been covered quite well in previous works. I touch on all of them, of course, but I move through them rather quickly; with the exception of the Chi Omega trial, where Dr. Tanay was advising the defense team.

  I was going to contact John O’Connell at one point but decided not to at the last moment. I had all the proper documents, and as far as his dealings with Ted, well, I didn’t think there was a great deal more he could tell me that I didn’t already know. Besides, I had my hands full contacting all the folks I knew I needed to talk to, and really, the same thing goes for Browne. I thought about calling him, but as I had obtained that which I needed, I decided it just wasn’t necessary. I did, however, attempt to contact Marlin Vortman, but I was never able to reach him directly.

  And you know, My heart goes out to Liz Kendall. She is, without doubt, one of Ted’s living victims. She really loved him, and just wanted to have a normal home with the man who on many occasions was fun to be with, and was always good to her daughter. A very sad situation, to be sure. As to Kendall’s book? It’s a great book, and one that gives a unique look at Ted Bundy and the years they were together.

  Nice talking with you, George.

  Kevin

• 111. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 21st, 2009 at 5:54 pm

  Hi Jason,

  You know, Bundy was a strange creature indeed. He is a lethal enigma, and as to figuring him out completely, well… that is something that’s just never going to happen.

  As to the conversations Bundy had with Thompson, you’re right, I can’t say much prior to publication. However, one particular phone call he related to me (some of their conversations were face-to-face, others by phone) sent a chill up my back when I heard it. That Bundy had the “nerve” to say and do what he did while talking to the detective even surprised me.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 112. Claire  |  April 22nd, 2009 at 8:09 pm

  I’m really looking forward to your book kevin, especially as it contains new info. One point though as to whether janice ott was alive when denise naslund was abducted at lake samm, polly nelson states in her book that when ted was interviewed by dorothy lewis he said he lied to michaud to alter significant facts so they could not pin it on him. The interview was conducted on his last full day before the dobson interview. Of course ted lied in his confessions, in the same interview he states his first murder war in 74. He’d admitted to kepple it went back to 72. He admitted that by accident according to kepple’s book. Defending the devil prints it in transcript form. Lewis quotes the only living wittness to ted to ask why did he print that both were alive and he gave that response mentioned earlier. A question to kevin, art norman mentioned in an article i read that ted admitted to killing in new jersey, taking 2 victims from a beach and in nelsons book in his last day interview with her and lewis ted states he went to a beach in new jersey in 69 intent on murder but bottled out. He only approached the women, nothing more. Can you shed some light on new jersey connection as i know you’ll be covering unconfirmed victims? To george, nelson’s book discusses his row years and diana weiner being his girlfriend. Nelson was after all his last lawyer. Kevin do you know if mcfarlands will release the same time in the uk? I saw barnes and noble had a release date of june, they need to update their site, was all looking forward to buying it for summer. Ahh well.

• 113. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 22nd, 2009 at 9:39 pm

  Hi Claire–

  For the last couple of years of his life, Ted Bundy became “friends” with Bill Hagmaier, who at the time was an FBI agent and part of the Behavioral Science Unit, or whatever they call it. Anyway, Bundy learned to really trust Hagmaier, and he admitted to Bill that he kept Janice Ott alive, and that the two women did in fact see each other that day. This, of course, goes hand-in-hand with the Michaud and Aynesworth interviews, and personally, I don’t believe he lied to Hagmaier about this. Indeed, he may not have lied to him about much of anything. And I have to tell you, that what is conveyed by Bundy in the M&A book, concerning what happened that day at Lake Samm, sounds like the absolute truth to me. Remember, Ted Bundy craved the spotlight, and those things he spoke in the third-person allowed him to brag about the murders, and how skillfully he carried them out; and all without incriminating himself in the crimes.

  I do write about a botched attempted abduction while he was on the east coast, but as far as the two murders Norman referred to, beyond mentioning it, I don’t have a lot to say about them. But it wouldn’t surprise me if it is true.

  If I remember correctly, I believe Bundy comes very close to admitting to Dr. Lewis that he committed murders prior to 1974 (1972, 1973) but stops short of this. I personally believe he did kill before 1974, but that’s just a “gut” feeling I have based on what I’ve learned about his nature, but I certainly don’t speculate about it in the book to any great degree.

  I think your best bet will be to order the book either through your local bookstore, or perhaps through Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or from McFarland through their website.

  Also, keep checking the McFarland site for the latest info. for an actual release date, as they will have it before anyone else.

  Nice talking with you with you, Claire, even though it’s through this Q & A session.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 114. Jason Nelson  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm

  Hi Kevin. Sorry its me again. Is it possible to discuss Ted or your book in a forum somewhere? I ve read through alot the conversations on here and wondered whether anyone else would want to as well?

  Jason

• 115. george mcfadden  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 3:16 pm

  Hi Kevin.I agree with Jason.That could indeed be very interesting.

• 116. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 3:21 pm

  Hi Jason.

  First, you don’t have to say “sorry” about questions you have concerning Ted Bundy, as this is the place for such things. I’m always glad to hear from you and everyone who takes the time to offer a comment, or asks a question.

  Now, I don’t mind if you discuss the Q & A that has been happening at this site. However, you will need to contact the Headsman at Executedtoday to see about any coping of the material on this site (if this is what you had in mind) for only he can give the okay for something of that nature. So just check with him.

  Thanks,

  Kevin

• 117. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 3:34 pm

  Hi George–

  You know what I find interesting about all of this? We are all (and I include myself here) in an intellectual pursuit of the great big “why” of Ted Bundy’s life. How could someone so normal looking turn out to be such a diabolical monster. This is why I mentioned in an above post how a sense of mystery will continue to follow Bundy for as long as people study him. We can know many things about him, but we will never discover all of the truth he kept hidden behind the “mask”.

  Take care

  Kevin

• 118. Claire  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm

  Thank you for the clarification Kevin on Lake Samm.

  I felt that the interview I read in Nelson’s book is that Ted was hedging a lot. You are right he did nearly come right out and say he killed before 1974. Lewis was going through the timeline asking when the 1st was. She guesses from what he said it was about 1972 or late 1971 and then he changes tack to say that it was 1974 and even she seems to disbelieve him, adding it was quite sometime since that New Jersey incident in late 1969. I think he said that after New Jersey and following women in New York, it was another year before aprroaching a victim, then 6 months, then another 6 months and then the first murder. That does take us to 1972 or around about.

  Why he was catious on his last day is beyond me, classic pyhscopath I suppose. It’s understandable that he never disclosed information on Kim Leach. That puts him in a really evil light and he was under warrant for the murder.

  As to the why ted killed? I’ve asked myself that question ever since I read Rule’s book last year and I’ve read a lot of books and articles out there since, and there is no reason. I don’t think there is becasue Ted didn’t even know the reason. My eduacted guess is that Ted was born a pyschopath / sociopath and all the events in his childhood and teenage years built up to form his desires. Not all sociopaths kill or even rape but coupled with significant events, like his first girlfriend breaking up with him. His violent grandfather and the lies within his family set him off. Maybe the detective magazines also damaged his pysche too.

  I’ve read about Lonnie Trumbell, I’m glad you mention that, although I can wait to see what you mention about that, I don’t want you to give away all the facts of your book. LOL
  It’s interesting I once read in an interview, it might have been the Dorothy Lewis interview that Ted said Chi O wasn’t unusual, as most detectives felt it was out of character, that he had gone through a frenzy episode or 2 before. That fits in with Trumbell and her roomate being attacked. His MO changed and reverted back it seemed. From the sleeping attack to the actually approach a victim with a ruse.

  Jason, I don’t mind discussing on a board somewhere.

  Kevin, you’ve certainly been very patient answering eveybodies questions. I’ll be placing an order through Amazon when it comes the time.

  Thanks,
  Claire

• 119. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 5:42 pm

  Hi Claire-

  Ted told Hagmaier he killed because he liked it, and he couldn’t understand why people couldn’t simply believe this explanation. But why did he like killing in the first place? And how did he reach that point? Those are the questions people can’t resolve in their minds.

  I do cover the changes in Ted’s personality as the years roll by, and yes, the attack at Chi Omega was different indeed.

  And thanks for ordering the book, Claire, I think you’re gonna love it.

  Kevin

• 120. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 7:13 pm

  Comment #116: Say, that would be “copying”, not “coping”! Where did that come from? LOL!!!

• 121. Claire  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 7:47 pm

  I’m with you Kevin on that one. Bundy liked killing. Apparently it wasn’t just a feeling that came over Bundy on a whim, he planned for days or weeks in advance.

  I think it’s “the point” (how he got to killing) as you put it that fascinates me and probably all of us who have posted. I think unless maybe you have committed murder for “fun” you cannot get on the samewave length as them. In my area in England we had our own serial killer, the most prolific serial killer in the western world. It was GP Dr Harold Shipman, my ex boyfriend even had him as his doctor (very creepy) and it was a big thing where I live near Manchester.

  He was convicted of killing 15 ederley women patients and is suspected of killing 250 women with lethal dosages of morphine. His mother died when he was in medical training from Cancer and he watched the morphine ease her death and many speculate that is what set him off. He probably started murdering his patients in the mid 70’s and was caught in 1998, due to forging a will of one victim. I believe for Dr Shipman, his point of turn was his mother’s death. I cannot work out Bundy’s.

  It’s scary where I live. We’ve had Shipman and in the late 60’s we had Ian Brady and Myra Hindley (the moors murderers) who killed and raped several children. They all killed in Hyde, Greater Manchester. At least we have Ricky Hatton, the boxer now to counteract it.

  Back to Bundy, sorry for digressing.
  Did you get to speak with Hagmaier for your book? I’d have so many questions for him, not just about Bundy but about criminals in general. I’m very much into the study of human behaviour.

  In documenatries he’s always struck me as a nice guy who just wants to do his job to the best of his ability. That’s a true agent.

  Thanks,
  Claire

• 122. Headsman  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm

  I have enough difficulty coping …

  Not sure if there was a request in there to re-use any of this conversation elsewhere, but if there was, I’m amenable (would just appreciate a link back). Just ping me if anything like that is what you had in mind.

  Thanks for all the questions and commentary from many who know Bundy so well. This is such a fascinating thread to revisit every day.

• 123. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 8:13 pm

  Jason–
  A quick clarification: Sure, it’s okay by me if you want to discuss Ted and my book elsewhere. Perhaps I misunderstood your question. Sorry.

  Kevin

• 124. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 23rd, 2009 at 8:40 pm

  Claire–

  I never got to speak with Bill Hagmaier face-to-face, but we’ve had some rather long conversations over the phone, and yes, he really is a very nice guy. In fact, all of the detectives I’ve worked with for this book have been really nice people. At no time did any of them ever get that superior attitude one can find in other “famous” people. Each one was very approachable and tried to assist me in any way possible.

  Yes, the killers in the UK are just as creepy as the ones we have on this side of the pond. And God only knows how many Shipman actually killed. Of course, your most infamous taker-of-lives (as you already know) is Jack the Ripper. And speaking of Jack, let me tell you a brief story:

  In 1972, I was just a kid of 17. Well, in early July of that year, I took a trip with my mom and dad to Europe, and we began our journey in London. Well, my father and I weren’t there a day before he and I headed for Whitechapel, the Ripper’s favorite hunting ground. It was really great that many of the buildings from the 1880’s were still standing, as I’m sure some still are, though certainly not as many. Anyway, seeing it in person gave me a good “sense” of how things must have been on those foggy nights in ‘Ole London town!

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 125. Jason Nelson  |  April 24th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

  Thats ok then. Shall i try and find an appropriate forum for us all to register in, sign up and begin discussing? or is there is forum on this site somewhere? I am flexible on how we can do this.
  Like Claire mentioned above, it would be fantastic to discuss, not only Bundy, but serial killers in general just to offer theories, points of view, any research conducted in the area etc. Its evident that many of us who post in the Q&A have a real interest in the subject matter and i think that a discussion would be very enriching for us all.

• 126. Jason Nelson  |  April 24th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

  Kevin -
  Further to the discussion on your conversations to Bill Hagmaier about Ted Bundy, did he mention anything about the personal friendship he had with Ted? I think that Bill and Teds close relationship helped Ted to speak about his murders and thus gave Bill the chance of being privy to information that Ted may not have discussed with other investigators. I believe Ted discussed all of his murders (including Kim Leach) to Bill as mentioned in TOLA saying that she was not a pre-selected target.
  Thanks

• 127. Fiz  |  April 24th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

  Jason, can you count me in, please, if you start doing this, because I’m really interested too. I’ve ordered the book Kevin!

• 128. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 24th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

  Hi Jason–

  Whatever you guys want to set up as to a forum is okay with me. I wouldn’t know how one sets something like that up, but yes, go for it, and let me know when it’s up and running. I’m getting ready to start another book, which means I’ll be entering a rather heavy research stage in my life for the foreseeable future, followed by the writing and correcting stages of putting a book together. Even so, I’ll always make time to answer questions at this site and anywhere there is a discussion about Bundy or other serial killers. And yes, I think it will be enjoyable for all that participate.

  Concerning Hagmaier: Yes, we talked about his friendship with Bundy, and long before I ever spoke to Bill, I understood why he befriended Ted. As I said before, Bill is a nice guy, so any kind attitude he showed Bundy was the real-deal, if you will. Having said that, Hagmaier was seeking to find out everything he possibly could about the mind of a terrible serial killer, and the only way to do that was to gain Ted’s trust. Now, I don’t consider myself the smartest guy in the world, but I know what I’m seeing when I look at it: Let’s see, Serial killer meets FBI agent attached to Behavioral Science Unit. Duh, I think, agent must want something from killer; like information on THE MURDERS!!!

  Now, I’m being a little funny here to make a point, but Bill told me one day over the phone how some people couldn’t understand why he got close to Ted, and obviously thought he was making a mistake. Well, when I heard that, I couldn’t quite believe THESE PEOPLE COULDN’T UNDERSTAND! Why didn’t they know, from a simple deduction of the situation, what he was trying to do. Amazing, isn’t? So how did it all turn out? Bundy ended up trusting Hagmaier so implicitly, that when it came to making those very important confessions near the end, he wanted to tell Hagmaier only. Bill convinced Ted, however, that he needed to confess to those investigators in the states in which he had killed, and Bundy agreed. At Ted’s request, Hagmaier did attend every confession he made during those sometimes marathon sessions when his life was slipping away.

  So yes, Ted learned to open up with Bill Hagmaier, and that was an exceedingly good thing.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 129. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 24th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

  Hi Fiz–

  Hey, thanks for ordering the book! You know, I really do believe you’ll love it, and I hope once you receive it, you will hardly be able to put it down! So let me know what you think about it, will you?

  Thanks, Fiz.

  Kevin

• 130. Jason Nelson  |  April 24th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

  With regards to the forum, i am going to seek one which would enable us to create a thread and start discussing the topics. I will report back once i find one for us all to post in. Ok Kevin, hopefully by then you wont be bombarded with questions that would take too much of your time.
  With reference to Bill hagmaiers relationship with Ted, I agree that people simply did not understand Bills true intentions in interviewing Ted in prison. He just wanted to gain an insight into the mentality of a serial killer and it just so happened that he and Ted built a rapport. Bearing in mind, despite his deranged mindstate, Ted did have a personable demeanour and since as you mentioned Bill was a nice guy, it is not surprising that they would become friends.

  Jason

• 131. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 24th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

  Believe me, I don’t mind the questions at all. In fact, when I’m working day and night on a book, it’s actually a stress reliever to get away from all the work for awhile. And yes, I’ve been told by those who knew Bundy, including medical people who examined him, that he was very likable. And it was this likability which helped him climb the social ladder in Washington State and beyond.

  Kevin

• 132. Claire  |  April 24th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

  I’ll make a correction, I read wrongly that you mention the Lonnie Trumbell incident when you stated already that it is not mentioned. I was very tired when I wrote that post and read the other posts on here. I’m sure the book will be an interesting read without that incident, but you are right though not to include it as there is very little fact and like you said you need, when writing a book, to seperate fact from fiction.

  One thing I am interested in is all unsolved connections, it’s estimated Bundy killed about 50 women and girls. Though 35 is the general figure. Did he ever admit to killing Carol Valenzuela? I’ve read conflicting info on that murder.
  I know the states must have gone back through all the cold cases and looked at possible victims but few have ever been disclosed to the general public, either that, or they found very few possible victims.

  It’s easy to see why Hagmaier didn’t show false interest. He probably was repulsed by Bundy’s actions but intrigued by the man in front of him. I knew they had a close relationship but I now know that Ted really entrusted him.

  Another thing did you manage to speak with any of Bundy’s family? I know Carole Boone and Ted’s daughter have gone into annonyimity and rightly so. They deserve a happy, peaceful life. It’s just few comments were ever made by his step brothers and sisters, cousiins etc. I’ve always wondered what they thought. I know the book mainly focuses on the crimes themselves but I thought you might have come into contact with them for research.

  Jack the Ripper certainly was a scary case, I’ve never visited Whitechapel but it’s quite a tourist attraction, kind of like the Tower of London I guess. a macarbe history but compelling all the same.

  Let us know Jason, if you find a forum. I know Serial Killer central has a forum but I’ve never really looked properly at what posts are on there.

  Claire

• 133. Richard A. Duffus  |  April 24th, 2009 at 8:18 pm

  Serial Killer Central has a Bundy interest group (119 members). There’s a thread started there called “Another new Bundy book.” You need to sign up, but don’t have to pay anything if the forum is your only interest.

• 134. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 24th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

  Hi Claire–

  Hey, that’s no problem about the Trumbell comment; we all do things like that.

  It’s true that Bundy killed far more women than he admitted to, at least by name. He said he killed 11 in Washington State, and if we include Valenzuela, that would make it nine that we know of. And I think there is a good chance he did kill her, but there was a killer operating in that area by the name of Warren Forrest, so we can’t say this with absolute certainty. Still, I include it in the book because of the very real possibility. And like I have said before, Bundy took many things with him to the grave, and this includes the names and faces of some of these unknown victims.

  I was never able to locate any of the members of Bundy’s family. Even so, Bob Keppel told me they wouldn’t talk with me anyway, and I think he’s correct about this.

  Gotta go for now.

  Kevin

• 135. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 25th, 2009 at 12:07 am

  Thanks , Richard, for the info.

  Kevin

• 136. Jason Nelson  |  April 27th, 2009 at 9:31 am

  Hi
  Just a message for everyone who wanted to join the forum and discuss bundy. the link is http://forums.skcentral.com/index.php/board,38.20.html. I ve just signed up and there is a bundy section with a number of threads there. See you there

  Jason

• 137. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 28th, 2009 at 1:14 am

  Hi Jason–

  Just a brief note to let you know that I checked out SKC, and having done so, I believe I’ll be sticking to ExecutedToday and the questions folks want to kick around here. For me, anyway, I think it’s the better place to do so.

  See you later.

  Kevin

• 138. Jason Nelson  |  April 28th, 2009 at 8:58 am

  Hey Kevin.
  I was actually going to post something to the same effect yesterday after browsing through that site and forum. I signed up but i wont be posting in there again. Sorry for any inconveniance to anyone

  Jason

• 139. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 28th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

  Hey, Jason–

  You know, as long s the headsman doesn’t care, I’m for letting this thing we’ve all started at ExecutedToday, run its proverbial course; and from the looks of things, that may be some time in the (distant?) future. As long as everyone is having a good time, and we’re entering into sound academic conversation, (including, perhaps, some healthy debating, LOL!) it should be quite enjoyable indeed.

  See ya,

  Kevin

• 140. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 28th, 2009 at 1:09 pm

  Please make that: “as long as”, not “as long s”. I already wear trifocals, lets hope I don’t need an adjustment in eye wear.

• 141. Ted Montgomery  |  April 28th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

  Kevin,

  One thing I’m fascinated about is the fact that Bundy must have failed almost as often as he succeeded in abducting and killing his victims. Surely some of them escaped his grasp. I firmly believe that there are witnesses out there who saw Bundy lurking around or perhaps some women who survived encounters with him, that probably don’t realize it was Bundy. That’s the kind of thing I would like to read about because it’s probably the only thing that would give us even remotely reliable insight into his approach, his technique and what sort of “mode” he was operating under when he was in the throes of his most predatory times. Did you run across anyone in the course of your research and interviews who heard or saw something that has been heretofore unknown by the general public? Also, I put absolutely no stock in anything Bundy has been quoted as saying, even to Keppel, because he clearly sanitized his recollections of the murders and heavily edited everything else he told interviewers, reporters, and investigators. So what remains in the canon of our knowledge of Bundy’s murders is more or less just speculation. I hope you were able to separate some of the wheat from the chaff.
  Thanks, Kevin.
  Ted Montgomery

• 142. Headsman  |  April 28th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

  I quite enjoy this thread and would be thrilled to see it continue. And many thanks, Kevin, for sticking around and really digging into the subject.

• 143. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 28th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

  Hi Ted–

  There were women at Lake Sammamish who were intended victims but lived to see another day. Then there were others, on other days ,who also got away, but may not have noticed their attacker attempting to snare them. Then again, there was a woman in Florida who ran from a guy chasing her only hours before the Chi Omega attack, and she later identified this person as Bundy. And, oh yes, Carol DaRonch escaped certain death on a mid-November evening in Murray, Utah. Still, all of these are known, and I can’t say I add a great deal to any new info (beyond a tidbit or two) when it comes to this aspect of the story.

  But that which is new, you’ll be very pleased with, I’m sure. And again, let me know what you think.

  Kevin

• 144. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 28th, 2009 at 11:11 pm

  Hello Headsman!

  I too am happy this has grown to such a degree this past three plus months. And to tell you the truth, it wouldn’t surprise me if this very interesting “conversation” continued in this vein for some time to come. And no matter how busy I become with a new work, I’ll be checking this site daily and answering those questions asked of me.

  Stay safe, everybody!

  Kevin

• 145. Jason Nelson  |  April 29th, 2009 at 8:57 am

  Hey everyone
  Also there were a few women he had approached in washington, maybe hours or days prior to the kidnap of Georgeann Hawkins in which two women gave reports to the police that they helped a man carry some books to his car. One woman found that the seat was missing and ran. Another woman thought he looked suspicous and kept him at arms length during the whole encounter. I also watched CWASK (conversations with a serial killer) which is a documentary in which physic mediams tried to make contact with serial killers from the dead. One lady described how her daughter and her friend had been hitchhiking and caught a lift with a stranger. The stranger then stopped by a local shop to buy cigarettes. The two girls in the car had second thoughts about going with the stranger and exited the car. Once the stranger came out, he saw that the girls were gone and looked visibly distressed. He then drove around looking for the girls. It was said that once Ted Bundys picture surfaced in the media, the two girls recognised the stranger as actually Ted Bundy. There is also one story in the stranger beside me which describes a womens story who allegedly had been kidnapped by Bundy.
  I hope this is of any use
  Jason

• 146. Ted Montgomery  |  April 29th, 2009 at 10:12 am

  Kevin, thanks for the response. Did your research turn up any information on the murders of Joyce LePage or Nancy Mae Winslow? Both are 1971 murders that Bundy has been associated with. Also, what about the two girls in Oregon - Vicki Hollar and Rita Jolly (I might have these names wrong)? Bundy admitted killing in Sonoma County, California, as well. I wonder if you got a chance to look at that area of his travels.
  Fyi, the updated Stranger Beside Me has some harrowing accounts of close encounters with Bundy, told in the would-be victims’ own words.
  Thanks again for the conversations on-line.
  Best,
  Ted

• 147. Richard A. Duffus  |  April 29th, 2009 at 10:44 am

  Assume someone makes a claim in the form of “I had an encounter with a man and when I later saw his photograph, I knew it was Ted Bundy.” Assume also that the person appears sincere and ones research shows the encounter was possible, for example Bundy was known to be or could have been in the area at the time. How much credibility can one give that claim?

• 148. Ted Montgomery  |  April 29th, 2009 at 10:52 am

  Richard, I agree that the large majority of these would-be victims are wrong about who they encountered. However, a few of the accounts seem likely because of the approach used, the proximity to Bundy’s hunting grounds at the time and the identification of him as the likely culprit mere days or weeks later, before anyone ever knew who Ted Bundy was.

• 149. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 29th, 2009 at 11:07 am

  Hi Ted–

  These are the questions that will continue to haunt us for forever! And here’s what I mean: According to Ted Bundy’s own words throughout the better part of his prison years, when he spoke of things in the third-person, he tells of a failed abduction in 1969 while he’s back east. Then, towards the end, he confesses to Dr. Art Norman that he killed two in NJ during this time.

  He told Dr. Ron Holmes that he also killed a person in Vermont when he returned to the state of his birth in (I believe) in 1969, but later denied it to others. And, as I’ve related in an above post, he all but admitted to Holmes that he killed little Ann Marie Burr, then vehemently denied it.

  He admitted to killing one in CA at the end, but I’ve reviewed (for this book) at least one other CA case of a woman who disappeared from at university library that has his MO all over it; but, of course, this isn’t “proof” that he was responsible for her death, but I’m thinking (strongly!) he could be.

  So yes, I did look for missing and murdered women wherever I could place Bundy on a map with a date attached to him, if you will. And yes, I’ve gazed at many a missing persons poster and wondered about Bundy and a possible connection, but in the end, if we don’t know with an absolute certainty, based on his confession, we will always be left scratching our heads.

  One disturbing aspect of my research, not directly related to Bundy, I will note here: There were scores of women being murdered all over the Northwest and California during the Bundy years. I have lists in my file drawers detailing one murder after another of young women and teenage girls, by folks just like Ted Bundy, though they may not have murdered as many people as he, nor, perhaps, were they ever caught.

  And sadly, I believe there are just as many females being murdered today. In other words, such things occurring in our society is as certain as knowing the sun will rise tomorrow. As such, folks (especially women) need to be very careful “out there”.

• 150. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 29th, 2009 at 11:13 am

  Hey, Jason and Richard. Glad to see you guys jumping right in to a stream of thought that keeps people scratching their heads!

• 151. Jason Nelson  |  April 29th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

  Kevin
  In terms of new information, would you be able to outline what new information (in general context) your book will contain or would we have to wait until your book is published? Since your book is primarily about Bundys murders, would it go into any detail on his confessions that are not widely known? Also are there going to be any new pictures in your book of either Bundy, locations, evidence etc? I am planning on purchasing the book as soon as it becomes avaliable on Amazon as i live in the UK. I hope the book can get at least a late summer release. Really looking forward to reading it and discussing it in full

  Jason

• 152. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  April 29th, 2009 at 3:50 pm

  Jason–

  As to particulars, or the specifics of that which is “new”, I will need to wait till the book is published before discussing them, or commenting in any way. However, I will tell you that these things I’ve “uncovered” have been known by certain investigators (but certainly not all of the Bundy investigators) for many years. Yet they’ve never been in print before, and I’ve taken great care to tie up some loose-ends, as it were, in the story of the Bundy murders. I also track Bundy’s movements and his personality changes in ways that (I believe) will be new and exciting for the reader; and all of it with an eye towards a better understanding of what happened along his trail of murder, and with various cases, why.

  And yes, you will be able to read parts of certain confessions that you may not be familiar with at the moment.

  One of the editors emailed me yesterday, informing me that the copy editor has finished with the manuscript and the book is now heading into production. This means that I’ll soon be on the look-out for the page proofs, and that I’ll need to finish the rather large index I’m creating for the book. So things are moving along rather nicely.

  See you a little later,

  Kevin

• 153. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 1st, 2009 at 12:57 am

  Jason–

  I forgot to mention the pictures! Yes, I believe I sent the publisher about 30 plus photos, and I’m thinking they might use them all, but we will have to wait and see what’s included after the book is released. Of course, I have pictures of Bundy and the victims, but I have also sent them photos I’ve taken at various sites pertaining to the murders, as well as a number of pictures of Ted’s murder kit and the items it held. So there won’t be any shortage of pictures.

• 154. george mcfadden  |  May 1st, 2009 at 3:54 pm

  Hey guys-
  One interesting little question:In Teds second Colorado escape,he used a hacksaw” the best money could buy.”He also had a tidy little sum handy to escape cross country.Where did all this come from ,the escape fairy?
  M&A mention that Bundy was fascinated by the Boston Strangler and his crimes.I know those gruesome events were covered extensively in mainstream media,as well as detective magazines.Note the Strangler used a ruse to put his victims at ease and was prone to home invasions.Sounds alittle like someone we know!

• 155. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 1st, 2009 at 7:36 pm

  He probably picked up the stuff during his first escape.

• 156. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 1st, 2009 at 7:39 pm

  Hi George,

  Apparently the money came from his defense fund; a fund created by those in Seattle (and perhaps elsewhere) who still believed in him. I do find it odd that he had “charge” of the money, and without it, escape would have been far more difficult indeed.

  I can’t remember the mention by M&A concerning the Boston Strangler, but it does make sense considering strangulation was Ted’s preferred method of murder. I think Bundy had a lot of respect for other killers of women, and perhaps he believed the connection between them was like belonging to a fraternity or some type of club.

  Just a thought.

• 157. Topelius  |  May 3rd, 2009 at 9:09 am

  Hi again, Kevin!

  I came across with an article which claimed Bundy trained, if you will, luring and attacking women before actually doing it. Bundy would lure a woman to his car and then let her go. And sometimes he would attack from behind and knock her out and then leave. If I remember correctly, Bundy was claimed to do these “trainings” already in high school.

  What is your opinion, did Bundy actually attacked women already in mid 1960`s?

  Thanks, take care!

• 158. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 3rd, 2009 at 3:29 pm

  Hi Topelius!

  Yes, Bundy did go on what we call here in the states “dry runs”, which is the same as saying he went on practice runs. But, as he told Detective Bob Keppel, he would at times have every intention of killing a girl, but after getting her to his car, he would decide not to go through with the murder. He never gave a full explanation as to why he called things off, but it could have been something she said, or did, and he simply changed his mind.

  Now, as he started to transform himself into a killer, he did admit to smacking a woman in the head with a board, or something of that nature, but upon hearing her terrified screams, he quickly ran away. I can’t remember the date of this (Bundy may not have even given a date for this incident) but it may be after a 1969 failed attempt to abduct a woman when he lived briefly on the east coast.

  Did he kill in the mid 1960’s? I don’t know, but I think he may have started committing murder as early as 1969, but again, nobody knows for sure. I certainly think he killed before 1974, but because of the lack of evidence, I must go with 1974. And it is quite true, that 1974 marked a true change for Ted Bundy, in that he gave himself completely over to murder at that time, as if he were beginning a new career in life. And in a diabolical sense, that’s exactly what he was doing.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 159. Jason Nelson  |  May 4th, 2009 at 3:16 pm

  Hi everyone.
  Its good to see that more websites are now putting the book on their sites for pre-orders e.g. booksamillion. It has been stated on their website that it will be released in June 09? Is this date slightly optimistic since it is due late this year?
  I am really looking forward to seeing the pictures in this book as well. Is there anything in terms of new evidence or unseen pictures of bundy himself in there?
  I was also wondering what were your views on the Bundy films? There is the film Bundy, A stranger beside me and the film starring Mark Harmon and also the new Ted bundy film Bundy: A legacy of evil which was released in Australia? Considering each film had its flaws, would you say any of these films portrays Bundy the best way possible?
  Thanks everyone
  Jason

• 160. Claire  |  May 4th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

  I’m back from SK central, it’s not so good for getting a ripe coversation going.

  Investigators have had a hard time matching Ted’s MO to unsolved cases. The Kathy Devine case looked like Bundy did it but this was proved by DNA to be a another man a few years back. Keppel really believed this was one of Bundy’s victims.

  I think the unknown escaped victims perhaps have been afarid to come forward or wish to remain annoymous. The one high profile escapee I’ve read about is Debra Harry, the singer. She was in NY at the time and got in WV with who she swears is Ted Bundy. I didn’t believe this till I read he had been in NY.

  Jason- I too am from the UK and saw the conversations with a serial killer on Living TV. It was spooky how they got an evp, supposedly from Bundy from beyond the grave. The voice sounds nothing like him but it’s weird all the same. Is this something that has been on in the US anyone?

  I’d like to see the new Bundy film, the legacy of evil but have not been able to get a copy yet. All the films are flawed because you cannot get 42 years of his life in in 2 hours, and almost all are changed in certain ways.

  I was amazed at the Stranger Beside Me movie being dramatically different to the book. They make more of a friendship between Rule and Bundy than was actually there and she is constantly challenging him about his guilt in the movie. Rule from her book, was having an internal struggle about this and never, as far as I know asked him outright.

  From the 2002 movie I did notice certain real life victims were mentioned which I wasn’t expecting. Melissa Smith is mentioned and a few other Utah victims.

  Kevin, I’m looking forward to the confessions part. I was aware that Keppel had interviewed him for 2-3 hours in his last days but have only listened to the snippets available on the interenet, which from my guess is around 30 mins. I’ve also wondered did Utah ever disclose transcripts of the confessions. I know Dennis Couch has commented on the interviews but never found anyhting in transcript form. Are these the confessions you mean? Utah and Colorado?

  Claire

• 161. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

  Hi Claire (and everyone!)

  First, I don’t believe D Harry ever encountered Bundy, and with that statement, I’ll not speak of it again.

  As to the confessions: I worked very closely with Mike Fisher, the former Colorado investigator, and did receive a good deal of information from him, including confession material. But in truth, I have uncovered a lot of new material (confession and otherwise) not found in previous works on Ted Bundy As I have said, my book is an extremely in-depth look at Bundy’s trail of murder, and as such, I have tried to not leave any proverbial stone unturned. However, I was not able to locate the Utah tapes, but I don’t believe I needed them anyway.

  Kevin

• 162. Claire  |  May 4th, 2009 at 6:52 pm

  PS — I like the Deliberate Stranger (although this is the one book I haven’t read) with Harmon. The Stranger Beside me stains the facts too much, lake samm is turned into a a raquet hall. Eh???

  Ted Bundy 2002 is good in it’s portaryal of how Liz saw him (forever cheating and cold at times), they include a few events in that film from Liz Kendall’s book. Like the being thrown into a lake scene but Bundy does not come across as charasmatic which he was in real life. He is 2 dimensional. Which is good for creating the hatred and the pyschopathic nature but you need to be accurate and portray the Ted Bundy the public also saw before the accusations. I think the delibarate stranger shows both sides to Bundy.

  I have yet to see the Riverman with Cary Elwes and so cannot comment on that one.

  From the trailer I’ve seen of Bundy a legacy of evil, it covers more ground than the other films which seemed to have concentrated on Ted Bundy post Jan 1974. I’d like a film to speculate a little on his past before the murders and few films have done courtroom scenes. The Chi O trial was a turning point in creating the myth of Ted Bundy and I think this needs to be included in any feature film about Ted Bundy.

  Claire

• 163. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 4th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

  Hi Jason–

  I would start looking for the book in July, but it could be a bit longer. just keep checking the web sites you’re already visiting; or, check with McFarland, as they will have the most accurate release date.

  I’m not sure you’ll see any new pictures of Bundy (though you may) but you’ll see pictures of some of the crime locations as they look today, and that will be new to you.

  Concerning the movies: Well, there are aspects I like about them all, and there are areas where I wish they would have done a better job. But like you say, how can you do in two hours what is supposed to cover a lifetime. Still, they all pretty well convey the diabolical madness that was such a part of Theodore Robert Bundy

  Kevin

• 164. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 4th, 2009 at 7:06 pm

  Here’s something cool: Riverman was only released on VHS, but the producers of the movie made up numerous copies on DVD for release to TV stations, but not for general release. Well, I was able to pick up one of these DVD’s on ebay about a year ago for 9 dollars.

• 165. Jason Nelson  |  May 4th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

  In relation to the Bundy movie, there are a lot of factual errors made that anyone who studied the life and crimes of Bundy would not make. One example is when Ted told his girlfriend he flunked psychology and was failing law school. He actually got an honours in psychology although the other comment is probably right. The deliberate stranger seemed to be a little light in terms of not going into depth into why Bundy killed in the first place. But as mentioned above, it would be difficult to relate Bundys story in a 2-4 hour film because he was himself a very complex character.
  July thats only two months away. It sounds like it may hit stores by summer which would be a treat. I had a feeling it may have been released at the end of the year.
  I am also interested in any confessions Bundy had made which may not been known to the public. The colorado confessions (with Mike Fisher) can be found in the Riverman book which was a good read. There are a number of books which have snippets on Bundys confessions that are not publicly known.
  Good purchase Kevin. I am surprised you got it quite cheap since they are quite rare but nice collectors item to have.

• 166. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 4th, 2009 at 9:52 pm

  Yeah, I say July, but it could be August or …? All I can say is they are finished with editing, and their people are working on other aspects of the book while I wait for the page proofs. So it’s coming along nicely.

  Jason, while Keppel’s book refers to Bundy’s confessions to Fisher, I don’t believe they go into detail concerning them. There is a lot more to learn about this aspect as you will see. Indeed, surprises await the reader throughout the book!

  Yes, some of the movies do have their errors, don’t they? Take the movie “Ted Bundy” with Michael Reilly (I think that’s his name). Sure, it has some problems, but I must admit, he does remind me of Ted-the-psychopath! LOL!!!

  See Ya,

  Kevin

• 167. Fiz  |  May 5th, 2009 at 8:56 am

  Amazon.com has give me the date of 6th June, Kevin. Do they know something you don’t?!

• 168. Fiz  |  May 5th, 2009 at 8:56 am

  Or given me, too!

• 169. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 5th, 2009 at 9:17 am

  Hi Fiz–

  I’d be very, very surprised at a June release date, and only a little less surprised if it’s July. Still, I believe it’s feasible to envision a July date, as they may be farther ahead in production than I realize. I believe when the booksellers began advertising the book, everybody had a June date, but then some quickly changed to July. So I just don’t know any more than this. However, McFarland often puts out a book-launch date (the month, actually) when things are approaching the time of release. So I suppose we must all keep our eyes open, as they say, ha, ha!

  Kevin

• 170. Ted Montgomery  |  May 5th, 2009 at 10:53 am

  Hi Kevin,

  You and your correspondents might enjoy reading a review I wrote for Riverman (the TV version) back just before it first aired. Try this linkL http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/entertainment/2002025838_greenside06.html
  Best,
  Ted

• 171. Claire  |  May 5th, 2009 at 12:31 pm

  I keep looking for the Riverman to purchase or download. I have downloaded a German version, I speak a little German to understand a bit, but not much. So in that respect I have seen Riverman. I would prefer it in English though, then I can actually compare it.

  I don’t remember reading any reference to Mike Fisher in The Riverman, I’ll have to check my copy now tonight. I remember Keppel writing he compared notes with other investigators because Bundy creid in one of his interviews and he did this with the other states, presumably to gain sympathy.

  A Ted Bundy movie should start with his birth in the Elizabeth Lund home becasue he was left as an orphan for 3 months, the movie should then move to his university days when he met his first girlfriend. Can anyone answer that, what her name was? I’ve read Diane in Defending the Devil, Marjorie Russell in M&A’s books and Stephanie Brooks for the rest.

  The movie should then do fast sequences of his attempts and attempted attacks.
  Then the night he met Liz (Kendall) & then run through the murders after that. Lake Samm should always be included, seeing as it was the first highly publicised murder of Bundy’s.

  The next bit should be the Utah arrest, the trail can be missed out. Then the Colorado 1st escape and the 2nd escape.

  Then the Chi Omega murders and of course Kim Leach. The Florida trials (at least Chi O) needs to be dramatised and then a brief run through of his final days, conecntraing more on the confessions and then being led from the death watch cell and end with the fireworks outside FSP. It made me quite queasy to see the execution in the 2002 movie so I personally would leave that out.

  That’s how I would do a movie about Bundy anyway. I enjoyed mapping the scenes, once a Media Studies student, always a Media Studies student it seems.

  Claire.

• 172. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 5th, 2009 at 1:06 pm

  Hi Ted–

  Excellent review! Well-written and informative; you couldn’t ask for more. Thanks for sharing it with us!

  Kevin

• 173. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 5th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

  Hi Claire–

  Bundy’s girlfriend was a lady by the name of Diane Edwards. I do not identify her by her real name in my book, however. She was from San Francisco, and from a couple of Bundy’s friends and co-workers I’ve spoken with, she was a very good looking woman. It seems Ted would take her around his political circles and among some of his very influential friends. However, many of these folks had no idea he was dating Liz too, and that he was keeping the two women far away from each other. One very high-ranking politico told me it would be years before he even knew of Liz Kendall, and that he had absolutely no idea Bundy was seeing two women at the same time!

  BTW: Everyone in my book is identified by their real name except for: Edwards; Liz (Kendall), her daughter, and Liz’s friend; a doctor friend of Caryn Campbell; and one or two other individuals. And in these cases, the reader is informed. I mention this only as you have used Liz’s real name, and I wanted the readers of this site to understand that, as a matter of respect to her (Liz) I decided at the beginning of the book to honor the pseudonym she has chosen for herself, her daughter, and her friend. The others were a matter of courtesy given the particulars of each situation. Everyone else is there for the world to see.

  Kevin

• 174. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 5th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

  Do you delve into the FBI’s involvement in Bundy’s first escape?

• 175. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 5th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

  Claire–

  An additional thought: Not that’s it’s a “big deal” that you mentioned Liz’s last name, because it’s in every police report (though sometimes redacted) and Dr. Holmes identifies her in his books as well. I’m just following her lead as I think it’s the proper thing to do.

  See ya

• 176. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 5th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

  You know, Richard, I don’t believe I mention the FBI by name at that time. I might, but I don’t think so.

• 177. Jason Nelson  |  May 5th, 2009 at 6:03 pm

  Would you be able to elaborate on that point Richard about the FBI being involved with Bundy’s first escape. I ve never heard this theory before but now that you mentioned it, sounds very interesting.

• 178. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 5th, 2009 at 7:12 pm

  According to Ann Rule, on Friday June 10 the FBI joined the manhunt. To do that they needed jurisdiction, a federal unlawful flight warrant. Colorado wouldn’t go along with that, convinced Bundy was still near Aspen. So the FBI went to Utah to get help swearing out a warrant. The warrant was based on a reported Bundy sighting in Wyoming which the FBI had to believe was credible. I would love to know the details of that sighting.

• 179. Jason Nelson  |  May 5th, 2009 at 8:50 pm

  There is some information about Bundys alleged sighting in wyoming in the FBI files. It was based on a report that stated that Bundy had been seen in wyoming and this was put forward by a police informant. It does not give any information regarding this report but it would be interesting to know more about it.

• 180. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 5th, 2009 at 9:25 pm

  Ah, the fine print of the law! Perhaps the FBI assumed Bundy was intending to leave the state, and because he was technically still a prisoner of Utah (having been handed over to Colorado to remain in custody for trial) once he was an escapee, perhaps he came under some type of Federal “flight” law; but who knows? Perhaps some extenuating circumstances came into play here.

• 181. Vidor  |  May 6th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

  I bookedmarked this page months ago to check back on the release date of the book. Interesting to see that a long discussion thread followed.

  Maybe one shouldn’t argue with someone such as Mr. Sullivan who has thoroughly researched the murders but I will do so, in at least a couple of areas. First, the Lake Sammamish murders. Mr. Sullivan states his belief that Bundy had Ott and Naslund alive together and cites Bundy’s confessions to Hagmaier. However, in the Polly Nelson book Bundy specifically states that not only did he NOT have Ott and Naslund alive together, but that he lied to Michaud in order to confuse law enforcement. Remember that while he told his story to Michaud in 1980, he was confessing to Lewis and Nelson shortly before his execution, and remember further that he had no reason to fear confessing to them in any case, as they were legally bound to keep their knowledge confidential. Remember further that we know for a fact he lied to Michaud at least once: he ’speculates’ about killing Brenda Ball by strangulation after a consensual sexual encounter, while in fact Ball’s skull had a huge fracture in it.

  Consider further the logistics of having Ott and Naslund alive together. He took Ott from the lake a little bit after noon, IIRC. He’d have had to subdue her, take her to the hiding place, and secure her there in such a way that not only could she not get away but that there would be no chance of anyone finding her. He would have had to make it back to the lake in order to have encountered Naslund around 4 p.m. Then he would have had to take Naslund to the hiding place, kill both of them, and then make it back in time to meet Liz (Kendall), which IIRC was sometime around six.

  Plus, we know that he was busy approaching other women between the disapperances of Ott and Naslund. I think Bob Keppel mentions four women he approached and failed with between Ott and Naslund, in addition to the first woman that he approached before Ott who walked with him to the VW. Does this seem likely? Would he have had the time? Where could he have secured Ott so that she couldn’t get away and no one would find her? And why would he have taken such a huge, huge risk as to leave her anywhere alive while he was gone?

  It seems much more likely to me that he incapacitated Ott in the car (as he attempted to do with Carol DaRonch), took her to a secluded place (quite likely the Issaquah dump site), killed her there, and went back and repeated the process with Naslund.

  I also disagree with Mr. Sullivan on the Ann Marie Burr murder. He might have implied being guilty of that murder at one time, but he denied it at all other times, including right at the end when he was confessing to a bunch of murders anyway and didn’t have anything left to lose. In the Nelson book he describes in detail how he first attempted to kidnap a woman in New Jersey in 1969, failed, then finally committed his first murder a few years later. Finally it’s not immediately obvious how he could have abducted and transported a little girl in the middle of the night when his only transportation was a bicycle. She certainly would have been difficult to take anywhere, even (especially?) if he’d rendered her unconscious.

  I am very much looking forward to reading Mr. Sullivan’s book. AFAIK William Hagmaier hasn’t spoken very much about the things that Ted Bundy told him, so for that alone “The Bundy Murders” is worthwhile. Am also looking forward to seeing the pictures. Two years ago I had occasion to drive through Snowmass, Colorado, and I would have liked to have stopped and taken a picture of the walkway where he encountered Caryn Campbell, but I couldn’t figure out how to explain it to my wife without her thinking I was completely nuts.

  Someone mentioned upthread about other women he approached that lived to tell the tale. It’s always amazed me that no one remembered him from the night of the Campbell murder. He must have been roaming the halls doing his cripple routine–impersonating a police officer probably wouldn’t have worked with her loved ones in the lounge downstairs, telling her her car was broken into wouldn’t have worked since they didn’t even have a car, and it strains credulity to think he could have whacked her on the head and carried her off from inside a crowded hotel. So he must have been roaming that hallway. How many other women did he approach? How could nobody have seen him, other than the one woman who may not have really seen him, seeing as how she pointed to the wrong person in court? A mystery.

• 182. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 6th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

  Vidor–

  Whatever happened, Bundy took the truth to his grave. However, having read all the offerings from the attorneys, It seems to me, that Ted’s relationship was somewhat guarded with them; guarded, in as much as by the time he started to open up to them, his back was against the wall, and he was in a fight for his life.

  Keep also in mind, that Ted’s friendship with Hagmaier was (in my opinion) on a far different level than with the lawyers. He really trusted Hagmaier (and Keppel, for that matter) and conveying to them his darkest secrets was probably more acceptable to him. Hagmaier was his “friend” to the very end, and so I don’t think Ted Lied to him about the Lake Sammamish murders. It just makes more sense to me.

  Someone did see Ted at the Wildwood Inn. It was a woman by the name of Elizabeth Harter. And, I go into great detail concerning Caryn Campbell’s abduction and what transpired there.

  Did Bundy kill little Ann Marie Burr? I don’t know. Could he have done the deed? Yes; and he certainly intimated to Ron Holmes that he did. So who knows? That he denied it later on means nothing, as it was the killing of a mere child, and like the Leach murder, he just didn’t want to speak about it.

  I hope you enjoy the book. Feel free to kick it around with me later (at this site) once you finish it, as I’m sure you’ll have additional comments or questions at that time.

  KMS

• 183. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 6th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

  Vidor–

  I again read your post, and I see that you were conveying info. about Harter without naming her. Beyond that, I’m certain Bundy was “seen” by many others, but was not “noticed”, if you will. That Bundy was not outfitted in skiing equipment may have left those who did see him in the lobby of the inn believing he was an employee, and never gave him a second thought. Who knows.

• 184. Vidor  |  May 6th, 2009 at 10:51 pm

  I didn’t name Ms. Harter because I didn’t know her name. I don’t think she’s mentioned by name in any of the books I’ve read–Larsen, Rule, M&A–only that a witness said she saw Bundy but failed to identify him in court.

  What do you think about the Debby Kent murder? It’s very interesting that he was seen in the auditorium with his hair mussed and his shirt untucked AFTER the intermission when Kent went to the parking lot. Did he really knock her over the head and throw her into the car and then come back in? Seems incredible, but there’s no other explanation.

  “The Stranger Beside Me” movie version is terrible. Rule’s book is bad enough in its attempts to portray the author as Ted’s close friend or something when they were really just using each other, but the movie is awful, awful, awful. Bundy is shown taking the stand and testifying in Florida. In the movie he drops a bloody flashlight in the hallway of the Chi Omega house and leaves blood smeared in the stairwell. He goes to his execution sporting a full head of hair. Bad, bad, bad.

• 185. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 6th, 2009 at 11:24 pm

  I can’t remember if Harter’s name is mentioned in the other books, but I received information about her from Mike Fisher, and through court documents.

  I won’t go into specifics about the Kent murder now, but yes, I believe there was a reason for Bundy being so disheveled at that time, and I go over the possibilities of what may have happened in the parking lot that evening, and why. And like all the murders I’ve covered in the book, I spend a good deal of time painting a literary portrait, if you will, of that diabolical night in Bountiful, Utah, and its terrible aftermath.

• 186. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 7th, 2009 at 10:05 am

  By “terrible aftermath” I assume you mean the effect the murder had on the Kent family. I’ve made it a point while researching Bundy to learn as much as possible about the victims and their families. It helps keep things in perspective. But that knowledge comes with a heavy emotional burden. How do you handle that?

• 187. Ted Montgomery  |  May 7th, 2009 at 11:15 am

  Thanks, Kevin. Bob Keppel is a really interesting guy, as I’m certain you discovered in your chats with him.
  Ted

• 188. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 7th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

  When Bundy killed Debra Kent, he really killed the rest of the Kent family as well. Though they remained alive, with jobs to contend with and things to do, their emotional state was never the same, and it would also lead to the divorce of Dean and Belva Kent. But it is also true that Bountiful, that small and otherwise “safe” community, had a terrible thing befall them too, and if the city has a collective “soul”, if you will, then it was changed by Theodore as well. And these lasting changes can be seen in that small city even today.

• 189. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 7th, 2009 at 12:57 pm

  Richard– I forgot to address the personal emotional toll : Well, the best way to describe it is this: When I’m conversing with a member of the victim’s family, or speaking to the dead persons’ friend, I kind of feel like an unwanted guest. A “bringer-of-bad-news” if you will. It is not easy for some folks to discuss the the homicide of their loved one, even if it did happen decades ago, and while no one really got angry with me while writing this book (except the sister of one of Bundy’s intended victims who got away from him at CWSC) I have had people very mad at me for daring to write about a murder of their friend (a murder that happened 30 years ago) as if I was wrong doing the piece in the first place. I remember the editor of “Snitch” calling me one day because a family member of the deceased was angry because of a photo I’d located and used for the article, and he wanted to know where I’d gotten it. So I told him not to worry, as it came from the police file, and it is a part of the public record, and as such, okay to use for publication. So everything was okay.

  Having said all of that ( those things a writer should never have to deal with) I do get to “know” the victims I write about, and as such, you can’t help being wounded in your own soul when you get to know them, and you learn many things about their lives and their deaths. And these thing NEVER leave me. But it’s a part of what I do, and I see no way around this aspect of writing about such things.

• 190. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 7th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

  Ted–

  Yes, Bob Keppel is an interesting guy. But if you got to know Mike Fisher, Jerry Thompson, Don Patchen, and the others, you would come back saying the same thing about these guys too. They are all really great people!

• 191. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 7th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

  Thanks for the updated comments. It must have been tough talking with the families.

• 192. Claire  |  May 7th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

  To apologise I presumed Liz would still be married and not using her maiden name so though it would be ok to mention. Liz deserves privacy and so does her daughter. I think she was very courageous for withstanding the fear she must have felt when she had her suspicions and her overcoming many hardships in her life inspired me no end.

  Thank you Kevin for the info on Diane.

  I like how this thread has evolved and I have learnt a lot of information I did not know previously.

  I think in the instance with Debby Kent Bundy was supposed to be wearing a fake mustache. I read he’d studied drama at Stanford or Temple (can’t remember which one). It certainly came in use when trying out his approaches.

  It’s interesting in M&A book he explains what happened to Caryn Campbell saying that she was taken to his room but I cannot figure out how he managed to get her out of the hotel. Someone would surely see??? It’s probably the one murder that there is still not a lot known about.

  Was Jerry Thompson in attendence at the Utah trial? I know it was David Yocum for the prosecution. Not much is known about the Utah trial except that he tried to fool the Judge by changing his appearence.

  Claire

• 193. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 7th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

  For this particular book I dealt with two family members (different families), and some friends of the victims, and that was the extent of the personal interviews of those extremely close to the murders. I didn’t go out of my way to seek them out as I purposely didn’t want to cause additional undo pain to folks who have already had far too much anguish in their lives. It’s something I wanted to avoid.

• 194. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 7th, 2009 at 4:05 pm

  Hi Claire–

  No need to say you’re sorry. I just decided at the beginning of the book that I was going to follow her lead and protect her privacy. I just felt it was the proper thing to do.

  I go into great detail concerning the Campbell murder, and I think you’ll find it very enlightening. And yes, Bundy at times did feel a mustache would conceal him from later identification, but he was quite wrong here.

  I don’t believe Jerry was at the trial, but he was certainly happy Bundy was there!

  Kevin

• 195. Courtney  |  May 8th, 2009 at 12:36 am

  Hi Kevin,

  First, wow, what a forum and the time you’ve taken to respond to everyone. Thank you. I stumbled upon this site and glad I did. I’m excited about your new book coming out.

  My question to you would be concerning the Dobson interview. Do you think or feel that Ted was being completely honest in this interview? Dobson seems to think he (Ted) had genuine emotion and wanted to make a statement against pornography–however, many people feel he was using Dobson just for publicity. And do you think he was reborn again in the Christian faith? It was claimed that he became a Christian and had repented to God. Do you think this was true?

  Thanks a lot! Again, I’m excited about the book.

• 196. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 8th, 2009 at 2:34 am

  Hi Courtney!

  You know, while I’ve heard all the stories about Ted’s “conversion”, I must tell you I have my doubts. I did read one time that Bundy asked Bill Hagmaier about what he (Bundy) should say to God on that day. And despite my several lengthy conversations with Bill, I never asked him about this to see if it was true or not. Now, as a retired minister, I can say that Bundy was not beyond salvation from a Christian perspective, but such a repentance would have to be sincere. And sincerity, I’m afraid, was sadly lacking in Ted Bundy. In other words, it would have been almost impossible for Bundy, given his mental and emotional make-up (a sociopath) to ever bring himself to the place where this would be possible. At least, that is my SINCERE take on it.

  Now to the problem of pornography: Looking at pornography may cause one to want to have sex, but it will not cause one to want to slaughter women and cut off their heads. It just doesn’t work that way. And while I like Rev. Dobson, I’m really sorry he fell for that one, and believe me, Ted was happy to fool him in such a manner. Ted was a master at both lying and murder, for these were things he dearly loved.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 197. Headsman  |  May 8th, 2009 at 8:24 am

  This is such a great thread.

  After a bit of consideration, I changed Liz’s surname to her pseudonym in the comments that mentioned it. She may not have perfect privacy, but I’d rather give her a bit more than less.

• 198. Jason Nelson  |  May 8th, 2009 at 4:56 pm

  I have to agree with your comments on Ted and pornography. After hearing Teds confessions with Bob Keppell where he referred to the importance of him maintaining some credability, i think this is why he agreed to be interviewed by Dr Dobson, as a way of skirting around the real issues which had driven him to kill. It was like he was using pornography as a scapegoat for his true desires to kill. I do believe that Ted did turn to it as a way of carrying out his fantasies and it was possibly a type of fuel for him to carry out attacks on women and young girls.

• 199. Vidor  |  May 8th, 2009 at 6:59 pm

  “It’s interesting in M&A book he explains what happened to Caryn Campbell saying that she was taken to his room but I cannot figure out how he managed to get her out of the hotel.”

  I don’t remember reading that. Do M&A really say that? It would certainly explain some things. If he’d rented a room at the Wildwood he could have coaxed her over there, whacked her over the head, hidden her there, and snuck her out in the wee hours of the night when the lobby of the hotel presumably would have been empty. Although I still think it makes the most sense for Bundy to have lured her to his car with the cripple routine. Mr. Sullivan mentioned Elizabeth Harter in his book–I wonder exactly what she did say? The commonly available source materials don’t say much beyond mentioning that someone saw Bundy but pointed to the wrong person in court. Did Harter describe him as fumbling around with a cast and crutches? What drew her attention to this man? Hopefully that will be in the upcoming book.

  I think Mr. Sullivan alluded to this upthread, but: does he take a position on the more controversial murders that some attribute to Ted Bundy? We have discussed Ann Marie Burr and the Wick/Trumbull attack–what of Carol Valenzuela? Shelley K. Robertson? Nancy Baird? Melanie Cooley? Or does he confine himself to the 25 generally agreed-upon victims (counting survivors, referencing the Wikipedia list)?

  Was Bundy looking to burglarize a house when he got arrested in Pensacola? One wonders what he was doing in that neighborhood for no particular reason when he should have been headed for the Alabama border.

• 200. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 8th, 2009 at 8:16 pm

  Jason–

  Yeah, Ted would like us all to believe it was pornography, or just about any other thing on the planet, which drove him to murder women, so long as we shift our gaze to something else. But it was just another lie being told. The truth is ,Ted loved murder, and he very much enjoyed doing things to dying and recently dead women. From the moment he started down this long road of murder, he discovered a joy and fulfillment that surpassed anything and everything he’d ever known; for this was but the outworking of all those terrible fantasies he’d been cultivating for years.

• 201. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 8th, 2009 at 8:53 pm

  Vidor–

  I’m not sure who said the above quote, but no, Ted didn’t take Caryn Campbell to a room at the Wildwood Inn. He used a ruse (I’m not certain which one) to gain her confidence, and then it was off to the VW and certain death for Ms. Campbell.

  As I said in an above post, I go into great detail concerning this abduction, and I don’t really want to give away very much now. However, Harter did correctly identify Bundy from a photograph she was shown a year later, and what she told the detective at that time (as to what Ted was doing, how he was dressed, and yes, why she noticed him in the first place!) you will find in my book. And this same detective believes he also knows why she failed to identify Bundy in court at that critical time, but because this was just his opinion, I had to leave it out of the book.

  Yes, I believe Bundy killed Nancy Baird, probably killed Valenzuela, and might have murdered Robertson and Cooley too. In truth, I believe Bundy is responsible for more folks than we have even imagined.

  Yes, Bundy and Pensacola! Why wasn’t he across the state line by that time of the morning?!! Well, he was certainly trolling for something, wasn’t he? And it’s also true his mind was not functioning the same as it had been years earlier. No, Theodore Bundy was a man clearly in decline.

• 202. Fiz  |  May 9th, 2009 at 8:09 am

  I would love to know how he managed to get hold of Caryn - she was feeling ill (Rule and A&W), and had just had a major argument with her fiance, and then a fight about who would get her magazine. She must have been feeling rotten and upset as well - but she was a nurse. I think Bundy must have pulled his cripple stunt on her. I used to pray for Bundy before and after his death, but I am afraid I feel different now, being the mother of two young women, both with long dark hair with a middle parting…

• 203. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 9th, 2009 at 10:27 am

  whatever ruse Bundy used, you can bet Caryn found it sincere. But there were other factors at play at the Wildwood Inn that helped Bundy pull off an abduction; things, let us say, that he took advantage of after learning of them. I can’t discuss them now, but they are in the book, and once you see them, you’ll be shaking your head yes, in agreement.

• 204. Vidor  |  May 9th, 2009 at 10:39 am

  How long is the book? Is it coming out in hardback or paperback or both?

• 205. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 9th, 2009 at 12:52 pm

  I don’t have a page count yet, but it’s over 120,000 words, and it is being published in trade paper form.

• 206. Jason Nelson  |  May 9th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

  According to the only living witness, Bundy was seen by a police officer (who subsequently arrested him) driving out of a restaurant car park a number of hours after the restaurant itself had closed. It could have been possible that Bundy simply stayed there to get some rest or sleep. Is it known how long Bundy was actually in pensacola? From the Only living witness again, Bundy was seen going through peoples bags in a bar (i think in pensacola before he was caught) in an attempt to get some more cash/credit cards so it is possible that Bundy was prowling through pensacola looking to burglarise someones property. Or even worse, looking for some one to kill?

• 207. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 9th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

  You know, Jason, I think Bundy was in Pensacola about a day and a half, but it’s been almost a year since I wrote that portion of the book, so I could be off the time a little bit.

  Bundy was certainly dragging his feet, as they say, in getting out of the city, and I really believe he wasn’t thinking very clearly at the time. He was very tired and emotionally worn out. And yes, he was trolling for something: Perhaps something to steal, or perhaps someone to kill.

• 208. Brandon  |  May 10th, 2009 at 5:10 am

  Kevin,

  I haven’t read all 200+ comments here but I have read at least a hundred and still have a question.

  I am curious why everyone continues to refer to Liz by her pen name “Liz Kendall”. Her real name was used in a few articles dating back to the 80’s and of course her court testimony has her real name for all to see in the Florida state archives.

  Of course this isn’t crucial information to the story, but it strikes me as odd. Most of the Bundy books do so and I noticed you did as well in a few replies above.

  Can you give me the rational for that?

• 209. Brandon  |  May 10th, 2009 at 5:19 am

  Never mind, Kevin.

  I read into the 190’s and saw your explanation.

  Thanks

• 210. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 10th, 2009 at 10:47 am

  No problem, Brandon. Have a nice day!

  Kevin

• 211. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 10th, 2009 at 11:15 am

  One of Bundy’s possible victims, Debbie Smith, has received little coverage thus far. Will you be breaking the silence about her?

  Bundy specifically denied eight murders, including that of Kathy Devine. Kethy was later found to have been murdered by another. Since we caught Ted in a truth about that one, aren’t his other denials credible?

• 212. Vidor  |  May 10th, 2009 at 1:33 pm

  Liz was referred to by her real name, Liz Kloepfer, in Polly Nelson’s book. However I don’t think any of the other Bundy bios did.

  Not to speak for Mr. Sullivan, but the “silence” about Debbie Smith probably has to do with the fact that she’s not particularly credible as a Ted Bundy victim. Ann Rule seems to believe that Bundy took Smith as a victim in February 1976 while he was being constantly watched by police.

  Do we suppose Bundy was also looking for a victim when he was arrested in August 1975? His excuse for being in that neighborhood isn’t very credible, and when he was pulled over, the passenger seat of the VW had been removed.

• 213. Kevin M. sullivan  |  May 10th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

  Richard,

  Yes, there are times when I read certain exchanges Bundy is having with Keppel, or someone else, and his denials have the ring-of-truth to them. So every denial he ever uttered, in my opinion, isn’t a lie. However, two things are without question: First, he enjoyed killing young girls, and second, he didn’t want to talk about it. He could discuss (if he had to) the murder of adult women, but not young females.

  Mike Fisher asked Bundy if he had kept a certain item that had been on the person of Caryn Campbel, and Bundy only answered the detective after a long pause that no, he didn’t. Fisher told me that he knew Bundy was lying, and I think he was right; I will even go so far as to say Bundy used the pause for dramatic effect, and wanted Fisher to understand that he did in fact take it, but was not going to give him the satisfaction of saying it verbally.

  So not every denial was a lie, but many were.

• 214. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 10th, 2009 at 4:14 pm

  We know he took photos of his victims. There are apparently other items he took as well. What do you think happened to all that stuff?

• 215. Kevin M. sullivan  |  May 10th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

  Vidor–

  Perhaps only Nelson and Holmes have identified Liz by her real name. I haven’t kept up with it all that much, to be honest.

  I don’t really know who Debbie Smith was, so what are the particulars about her? Rattle the cage of my mind and perhaps I’ll remember!

  Bundy was most certainly looking for a person to kill on the night of his arrest. Keep in mind, too, that Bundy was an opportunist, so along with getting high, and doing whatever else he’d been doing, he was also looking for a situation to present itself to him. Of this I have no doubt. Trolling for a victim at that late hour was quite routine for Bundy.

  And speaking of denials which are actually lies, this is a perfect example of what I’m talking about, and you’ll read my commentary on Ted’s denials concerning this night once you have my book.

• 216. Kevin M. sullivan  |  May 10th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

  Richard,

  I believe Ted ditched everything after his arrest; or perhaps not till after the first search of his apartment, for I believe that’s when he destroyed the photographs.

• 217. Kevin M. sullivan  |  May 10th, 2009 at 4:35 pm

  BTW: The item Fisher believes Bundy took from Caryn Campbell was her room key; to room 210, I believe. I’m telling you folks now, as I don’t believe I mention this in the book, and even if I do, it’s just a tiny fact I’m divulging. LOL!!!

• 218. Claire  |  May 10th, 2009 at 6:32 pm

  With regards to my post on Campbell being taken to his room, again it’s a way Bundy said the murder could have taken place. Of course as we all know and have gathered by now anyway, he lied throughout his life.

  Bundy speculates he could have booked a room for 2 people to not arouse suspicion and have her help him to his room, his car or a hospital, after feinging an illness. It’s referenced on page 183 in convesations with a killer in the 2000 edition. It’s recounted to Hugh Aynesworth and not Michaud.

  I believe pornography is a not the root of his murder spree but it is creating violence. Through my own experience and having talked about the dating climate of today, with my friends, we all agree that to the wrong man pornography can warp men’s desires.

  It’s a harsher world out there when it comes to respecting women than back in 50’s, romance is dying. There a some funny Impulse perfume adverts playing in UK cinema’s now and they are bang on for relaying that the wooing part of dating is just not taking place anymore. I believe this is due to loosening of morals and sexuality being broadcast so much. Recently I was shocked to see the morning after pill being advertised on the tv. I’m a young woman myself and not the most religious person in the world but society is just too relaxed now.

  I think the Dobson interview is geared towrads shifting the blame onto Pornography by both parties. Ted Bundy was warped before he encountered pornography. I don’t think he could have truly felt pure emotion for the victims, even after reflection.

  I’ve read somewhere that he did spend his last hours with a methodist vicar. I’m sure it was more the company he’d be seeking rather than the words of the bible and absolution.

  Claire.

• 219. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 10th, 2009 at 7:10 pm

  Debbie Smith’s decomposed body was found near Salt Lake City airport on 4/1/76. She had disappeared the previous February. Bundy left Seattle for Salt Lake City on 2/3/76. That’s all I’ve been able to learn about her.

• 220. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 10th, 2009 at 8:54 pm

  Hi Claire–

  Could Bundy have taken Campbell to a room at the Wildwood Inn? Sure. But I’m basing my belief that he didn’t because of what he told Mike Fisher years later. Could he be lying to Fisher? Yes, but because this confession came at the end of his life (and because of some things having to do with the inn), I think he’s telling the absolute truth. More about what happened there is in the book.

  Pornography can be problematic to a society, to say the least: It can be addictive, it can create unrealistic expectations in people, and from a moral standpoint, I believe it to be wrong; and yes, it treats people (mostly women) as objects. However, I will say again, most men who view this are not thinking about violence, - but the sexual sadist is! Most men view it because it’s pleasing to look at, but they’re not driven to murder over it, nor does it cause a man to want to beat or abuse a woman. I have never believed it to be a stimulator for violence, and don’t hear me saying I think it’s a good thing, because I don’t. And it had absolutely nothing to do with why Ted Bundy started killing young women. Those of my brethren
  who believe otherwise are fine with me, but again, I believe them to be wrong, and I’m sorry Dr. Dobson fell for Ted’s lies.

• 221. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 10th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

  Thanks, Richard. My first thought would be that I kinda doubt it, seeing that Utah authorities may have started watching him closely again after his return from Seattle. But who knows?

• 222. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 10th, 2009 at 11:10 pm

  A clarification to my # 213 comment about Fisher asking Bundy about the key: I rechecked my notes, and Bundy didn’t say “no”, he said he didn’t remember. Nevertheless, Fisher knew Ted was lying.

• 223. Fiz  |  May 11th, 2009 at 5:23 pm

  Claire, Amazon .co.uk is showing Kevin’s book as order-able (probably from the US though, as it seems to add a 6-10 day wait for it, which is what usually happens when they order directly from the US) and if Keppel’s “Riverman” isn’t available on Amazon, I would try ABE.co.uk.

• 224. Vidor  |  May 11th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

  “I don’t really know who Debbie Smith was, so what are the particulars about her?”

  All I know, regarding Debbie Smith, is that Ann Rule’s book lists her as a victim. Which, as we’ve discussed, seems very unlikely, as she disappeared in Feb. 1976 when Buny was being watched.

  Keeping the room key? Well, let’s see–Campbell had the room key when she met Bundy. She was found nude, and none of her possessions were ever found. So Bundy must have gathered up her stuff and thrown it away with the rest, yes? Why would anyone ask about the room key?

  Nelson’s book mentions that the detectives that searched Bundy’s apartment in Utah missed a bunch of very explicit Polaroids that he then destroyed.

  And speaking of souvenirs, that’s a woman’s belt in the picture, with all the murder tools in Bundy’s bag.

• 225. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 11th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

  Vidor–

  I think Mike Fisher suspected he may have kept it. Why, I don’t know. But Bundy’s hedging here does make it clear (in my mind) that he must have retained it for a time, and then at some point discarded it. The next time I talk with Mike, I’ll ask him why he believed Ted kept it, and I’ll let everyone know what he says.

  Yeah, the pictures were in the basement of Ted’s apartment at 565 First Ave.. Thompson and company searched the upstairs apartment, but nowhere else.

  Yes, that is a woman’s belt, and if you go to the above link where it speaks of the article I wrote for “Snitch”, you’ll be able to read how I had all that stuff in my house, and I mention the belt and how it must belong to one of the murdered girls.

• 226. Jason Nelson  |  May 12th, 2009 at 11:31 am

  Where is the link for the article you wrote for snitch? Jason

• 227. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 12th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

  The highlighted portion found in the second paragraph in the intro to the above interview: “from inside Bundy’s ski mask”

• 228. Vidor  |  May 12th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

  I guess we’ll see how Mr. Sullivan opens his book when we buy it, but that sure would make a great intro. Opening the murder bag. Spooky.

• 229. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 12th, 2009 at 3:52 pm

  Hello Vidor–

  Believe me, had I not been introduced to Bundy’s murder kit, I never would have written a book about him, and yes, the preface and / or introduction of the book will cover this. It was a surreal experience, to say the least!

• 230. Jason Nelson  |  May 12th, 2009 at 4:16 pm

  ok thanks for pointing that out

  Another point i would like to add in relation to the Caryn Campbell case, In a Ted Bundy Documentary based in the UK, Michaud stated that In Bundy’s apartment, he kept a bag or a box of womens keys. I think he stated this was found my Liz Kendall. Could the keys taken from Caryn Campbell have been left with a bunch of other keys taken from Bundys other victims? This is a possiblity.

• 231. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 12th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

  Yes, I do remember something about the box of keys, but I was thinking they were in Washington State. I might be wrong here, but I’m thinking it was WA.

  Is the documentary you’re talking about from Redback Films? If so, I helped the producer get in touch with two of my Utah contacts, after Stephen Michaud emailed her a copy of my “Snitch” article to look over, and my email contact information.

• 232. Jason Nelson  |  May 12th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

  The documentary is called ‘natural porn killer’, i am not sure whether it is from redback films or not. Michaud just mentions that Liz found a box of keys in his room at one point which she thought was strange and this was probably from his murder victims. If the box of keys were in Washington state, How would Mike Fisher know about Bundy taking Caryn Campbells keys specifically? As stated above, Bundy must of removed all of the items that Caryn Campbell had in her person, including her clothes, but what made Mike enquire about the key? Is this situation described in your book?
  Jason

• 233. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 12th, 2009 at 6:12 pm

  Jason–

  That’s not the film I was thinking about.

  I just emailed Mike Fisher about what made him suspect this in the first place, and knowing Mike, he’ll get back with me fairly soon.

  The Campbell portion is quite significant as to detail concerning the murder and Fisher’s investigation into it, and I believe I mention the key and how Bundy lied, but until I go back and check the manuscript, I can’t say for sure if it’s in there. But there is a tremendous amount of info about the crime in my book to keep the reader busy concerning her murder and what happened, and even this isn’t the new stuff I’ve been talking about! Still, you’ll find new info there in abundance.

• 234. Claire  |  May 12th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

  Hi Fiz, not had a chance to check out Amazon yet but will do tomorrow. I have Riverman the book, it’s the tv movie I’d like to buy. You can buy it off ebay I believe but I try to use Amazon main and not ebay or Amazon Marketplace, but hey it looks like I’ll be buying the dvd off ebay etc.

  I don’t mind the shipping wait for Kevin’s book, it’s worth the wait.

  The Cambell key seems to be quite an issue, I’ve never heard this fact until reading here. In Natural Porn Killer, it is noted that he kept souveniors as it in the Crime Stories docu by Robert Ressler.
  It’s an interesting Docu - Natural Porn Killer, the interview with Michaud is certainly interesting and in the docu it was mentioned that Ted had majorette magazines in his room (either in Utah or Talahassee) by a detective. This is something I’d never read about. Is this something you have found out too Kevin? He certainly had some very incriminating reading material in his possession, what with those magazines and the more incriminating Ski Lodge brouchure.

  It was Liz who said to WA police that she had found a bag of womens clothes and a box of keys. The keys were from his WA days but that’s not to say he didn’t kept things in Utah from other victims.

  With regards to pornograhy I think that it’s not the cause of homicide, homicide is motived by pyschological factors which is why I find the whole Dobson interview laughable. I just think some men (a small portion) are certainly not viewing it in a healthy way

  I’ve always wondered did Ted ever actually help the police in any real way with his confessions? There were 2 Jane Doe’s that are always listed as victims, one in WA and one in ID. Have their identities ever been discovered by the police based on his information?

  Claire.

• 235. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 12th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

  Hi Claire–

  First pornography: I couldn’t agree with you more! It is an unhealthy activity that can never really satisfy; certainly not in the long run, as they say. Most people who view it will find this out eventually, and it won’t be a detriment to them. Now, there are SOME (usually men) where it does seem to become an addiction, but even here, it will not lead one (in my opinion) to violent acts of any kind. Killers like Bundy have an extremely twisted mind and their sexuality is intertwined with violence in ways so unusual, that possessing even a partial understanding of such problems will ultimately lead one to believe that pornography cannot be the seed which created the monster. And I know, having said this, there will be some who will not be able to brings themselves to even consider what I propose here, such is their feeling about porn. Still, I have to go with that which makes the most sense to me, and leave it at that. And so, let me say it again: I believe pornography is bad for the soul, and people would do well to avoid it altogether. But I repeat, it’s not a monster creator.

  I think it was Bob Keppel who told me that when Ted was arrested in Florida, he had a cheerleader magazine in the car. This would be for stimulation, and was probably in his possession when he grabbed Kim Leach.

  I believe Bundy kept things from his victims from time to time; and that includes Washington, Utah, and of course, Colorado. Once the caca hit the fan, as they say, he ditched everything.

  Yes, Bundy did help the authorities at the end with some unsolved cases. But he didn’t do it to be nice. He was stalling for time, and he fully understood that if he didn’t come clean on at least SOME of the murders, the detectives in the various states were not going to help him get his death sentence delayed. Of course, it all backfired on Ted, as the detectives had no intentions of trying to stop his execution. And in the end, it wouldn’t have mattered anyway, as Ted had no intention of revealing everything.

• 236. Ted Montgomery  |  May 13th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

  Kevin, thank you for taking so much time to respond to everyone on this thread. You’re written almost enough here to fill another book!
  I’m always amazed at the many myths about Bundy that keep getting repeated. i.e., he liked bunettes with long hair parted in the middle, etc. That was just the style at the time. PIck up any high school yearbook from the 1970s and you’ll see that most of the girls have long hair parted in the middle.
  The FBI and the folks from VICAP put together a very detailed timeline of Bundy’s life (particularly the years generally associated with his murders) that allowed investigators from multiple jurisdictions to try to tie him to crimes in their cities, or eliminate him entirely from certain crimes. I have a copy, and it really is fascinating. A lot of the entries read like this: “16:30 - Bundy bought gas in Tacoma, WA,” or “12:55 - Bundy had stickshift on his VW repaired in Seattle, WA.” But there are some interesting inferences to be made by studying this timeline. One is that Bundy did an extraordinary amount of driving (trolling), sometimes buying gas five separate times (in three diffferent states) in one 24-hour period. Secondly, the timeline also places him in Arkansas and Wyoming at certain points, two states that were extremely interested to know that Bundy was a visitor. Thirdly, he spent some significant time in motels in cities in California, Oregon and Washington. And finally, the timeline seems to preclude him from being responsible for certain murders generally ascribed to him (such as Carol Valenzuela). Did you ever get a chance to see the timeline? Obviously, there are some pretty significant gaps in it that occurred at points when there was little activity on Bundy’s credit card and/or phone, the main ways the FBI was able to track his whereabouts or activities.
  One entry has Bundy buying a dress at a department store. It’s not such a stretch to imagine that he used the dress in one of his brutal reenactments of detective magazine covers that he subjected his victims to.

• 237. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 13th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

  Hi Ted–

  Thanks for the kind words concerning my commitment to answer questions on this site! I do it because I enjoy it and because I think I should. And I fully expect that after people start reading the book, it will prompt even more questions, and I’ll be answering questions once again, perhaps in even greater numbers, and that’s okay with me too.

  No, I haven’t seen that time line, and it does sound interesting. However, I have literally thousands and thousands and thousands of copies of original records from this case, including actual copies of checks Bundy has written, receipts for a rug he had cleaned, records showing that both he and Lynda Healy would often cash checks at the same safeway store in Seattle, etc. And the list goes on an on. And all of it is very interesting, and guess what? I HAD TO READ THEM ALL! LOL!! And I think I mentioned that I have the records of Bundy’s gas purchases in Utah and Colorado for the time he was away from Washington State. In fact, these gas records might be a part of this time line record you’re talking about, although I received my copies from Jerry Thompson out of Utah.

  You’re correct about the hair being the style from the 1970’s. Still, if you look at pictures of all the dead girls, it does show Ted’s preference for dark headed women, (the only real departure, in my view, being Susan Rancourt, his second choice of the evening at CWSC). Just like a guy who says: “I love blonds” Ted might say: “I love killing dark haired women”. So do I believe there is a connection in the similarities of the looks in the women he killed? Yes, I really do.

• 238. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 13th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

  He had an uncle in Arkansas with whom he visited in ‘68 or ‘69.

• 239. Laura  |  May 13th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

  Hi Kevin,

  Firstly what a great thread this has been, Im going to order the book (Im in UK) Im glad I stumbled accross the site on my internet travels.

  It just shows the interest Bundy still has twenty years after his execution and thirty years since his crimes. I was chatting earlier about Ann Rule and how perhaps she had made more of their “friendship” than it actually was - M & A even state that she had a vivid imagination in their book.

  Anyway it got me thinking a while back in a book I read about BUndy doing work somewhere I think a mental hospital and he was dismissed as patients records were missing and they were getting funny phonecalls. It was a feeting mention and not something thats talked about in depth anywhere I just wonder if its something you cover in the book or have contacted folk who worked with him about it would be interesting to find out exactly what happened.

• 240. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 13th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

  That’s correct, Richard, and I believe Ted stopped in Arkansas on his way home from the east coast in 1969.

• 241. Laura  |  May 13th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

  Sorry one last thing, if you want to view the Natural Porn Killer it’s on youtube here is a link:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40tzdFIPAf0

  You have to watch it in parts.

  Liz interests me, how could anybody realise or begin to realise what someboy MAY have been capable off yet not do anything about it - until it was far too late. People say she was weak, or just under his spell but she still slept with him once he was let out of jail on bail. I forget when but the M & A book tells you. This is just madness surely.

• 242. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 13th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

  Hi Laura–

  When I first started the book, I had a couple people tell me I was wasting my time; that Bundy had been “done” as they say. But I knew otherwise, and once I started locating the new information I have so often referred to at this site, I knew for an absolute certainty that I was more than on the right tract! In life, we must all do that which WE believe to be the correct decision, and not always what others tell us.

  Bundy worked for Harbor View Hospital (I’m not looking at the manuscript at the moment, so I hope I have the name exactly right) and he did have some issues while there, and I do cover them in the book.

  Ann Rule has put out a lot of really good work. But as I mention in a post above, her work on Ted is not one of my favorites. Still, I would not get rid of my copy, if that tells you anything LOL!!. At times, it seems a little self-indulgent, but it still has a lot of really good information in it, AND, without question, she had many dealings with Ted. What it lacks, however, is an academic “feel” to the book, which, I believe, is important when taking on a complex subject like the life of Theodore Robert Bundy.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 243. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 13th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

  Yes, Liz did go back and forth when it came to Ted. She did not understand how the man she knew could be responsible for these crimes. Even so, her heart was in the right place, as she always came back to asses the situation again and again, given the evidence available at the time. So her heart was not the problem, it’s just that her head couldn’t quite figure it all out; at least not until the events in Florida finally blew the lid off of everything.

• 244. Jason Nelson  |  May 13th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

  Hey everyone.
  I am really looking forward to this book now. It is stated on various websites that the release date will be July 5th. Would this be a likely date in which it would be published Kevin? If so its only around 6 weeks to go which isnt long really.

  To Ted, Is there a copy of the timeline avaliable on the internet? It would be very interesting having a look at this to try and link some unsolved murders on specific dates depending on where Bundy was at the time.

  Thanks everyone
  Jason

• 245. Laura  |  May 13th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

  It was interesting to note in this documentary, when Bill Hagmier speaks (around half way through) the picture behind him is of himself and Bundy (ted is on the right), not sure if it was put up for the documentary sake or if he genuinley has that picture on his wall. The picture I have never seen before onlne in all my searches I came accross it one day in a forensic psychology book on necrophilia, and then recognised it in the film. But I thought it interesting to point out as of al the Ted pics this is the one your unlikely to see.

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40tzdFIPAf0

  This has little relevance to anything other than I find it interesting he has that picture behind him in the interview and it’s not one that is widely seen. I’d love to have read a book from Hagmaier on Bundy but in some ways I respect the fact that he has not done one to date.

• 246. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 13th, 2009 at 5:47 pm

  Jason–

  I would be very surprised if it’s released that early. I can only say that the editing is finished, and they’re working on the covers, and the inside of the book. However, whenever I receive the page proofs, I must read through the entire book to make sure there are no last-minute corrections which need to be made, and to add page numbers to the index I’ve already created. Once I return the proofs and index to them, it could start rolling off the presses within days, I’m told. So I’ll let everyone here know when I receive the page proofs.

• 247. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 13th, 2009 at 5:56 pm

  Laura–

  Bill has mentioned to me in the past how, over the years, publishers have sought him out, telling him he should do a book. But for whatever reasons, he has decided not to thus far, though He may do it in the future. I told Bill he should write it, as it would be a unique look at the years he spent with Ted, and even he told me that it would be from that focal point only, and not a biographical look at the killer. So let’s hope he does finally take the literary “plunge”.

  The picture may be the one found in the Time-Life series on serial killers. I haven’t watched Natural Porn Killer for a long time, but that’s probably the one you’re referring to in the film.
  I think I may even watch the film tonight.

• 248. Ted Montgomery  |  May 14th, 2009 at 10:30 am

  Hi, Jason. I’ve never found the timeline on the Internet. I got a copy from the VICAP folks back in 1993, when I was doing some research for an article I wrote about serial killers. The timeline was put together in 1992 after a multi-agency meeting in Quantico, where all the investigators from all the states in which Bundy was known to have lived, visited and/or committed crimes got together to share information. I’d try to scan it and upload it somewhere, but it’s really long.

• 249. Jason Nelson  |  May 14th, 2009 at 11:04 am

  Hi Ted
  No worries about scanning the timeline. I am a bit surprised at how, as you mentioned, Bundy brought a dress. do u think he actually bought it for one of his victims to wear or that it could of been a present for a lady friend or liz, or stephanie?

• 250. Vidor  |  May 14th, 2009 at 11:36 am

  The “timeline” referred to upthread is, I believe, the “Ted Bundy Multi-Agency Team Report”. There used to be a website, tedbundy.com, which is now defunct but had a copy of this report on it. However, if you look up that website on archive.org you can still find a copy of the Report in the “Errata” section, as a PDF file.

  The front matter of the report includes a short section on Bundy’s M.O., which is mostly stuff we already know, except for a note about how Bundy liked to “work” by moonlight or the headlights of his car so he could see his victims, and a really creepy comment about how when his victims started to come to in the car, Bundy would pretend that he was taking them to the hospital.

  Next comes some more interesting material, including a list of aliases Bundy used and all his known addresses, including the rooming house he lived in in Seattle and his address in Salt Lake City.

  After that is a list of homicides he confessed to. Then the timeline, which makes up over half of the 50-page report and is filled with items like “04-03-73, Bundy bought gas, Seattle, Washington”. The note for 1-18-68 mentions that he stopped in Arkansas as part of the trip mentioned in Bundy bios, when he dropped out of school and headed east to Philadelphia. Some of the items do indicate random driving. On 5-18-72 he is listed as having bought gas in Coeur d’Alene, Idaho–why was he in Idaho? Hunting victims? On 5-27-74, as mentioned above, he is listed as buying a dress–super creepy. On 8-2-74, the day Carol Valenzuela disappeared, he is listed as buying gas in Olympia, which Mapquest tells me is 105 miles away from Vancouver, WA, where Valenzuela disappeared. Since we know he traveled 260 miles from Seattle to Corvallis on May 6 to abduct Kathy Parks, that wouldn’t seem like it rules him out for the Valenzuela murder.\

  5-5-75: “Bundy was challenged in dorm on college campus, Pocatello, Idaho”. That would be the day before he abducted the little girl, Lynette Culver, from Pocatello. In early June he’s shown driving through Idaho, Washington and Oregon.

  After that there’s more on his whereabouts. It appears to be a record of all the dates where his location can be definitely established. Anyway, that’s the “timeline” mentioned above.

• 251. Jason Nelson  |  May 14th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

  hi vidor.
  Sorry i am having trouble locating the report on the above site that you mentioned. Is the report actually on the tedbundy.com website or archive.org. Once i type in tedbundy.com, it comes up with a list of dates from each year. Would you know where abouts the ‘errata’ section would be
  many thanks
  Jason

• 252. Jason Nelson  |  May 14th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

  Hey
  I ve found the report so ignore the above comment 251. I am going to scan through the report now. For anyone who would be interested in reading this report, here is a link:

  http://web.archive.org/web/20060621144017/tedbundy.com/errata/freebies/Ted+Bundy+Multiagency+Investigative+Team+Report+1992+from+tedbundy.com.pdf

• 253. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 14th, 2009 at 2:20 pm

  Hello Jason and everyone!

  I just checked out the time-line on Theodore, and it does look interesting. However, there are some errors: First, they give a date (the month of August ‘74 only) when Ted moved to Utah. This is incorrect. They do have him departing Seattle for Utah on the 2nd of September of 1974, which is correct, but they have him purchasing an item from Nordstrom in Tacoma, WA on the 3rd, and this is impossible. Perhaps they meant to say Salt Lake City instead of Tacoma; or perhaps somebody other than Bundy used his card, which is unlikely. The fuel purchasing records I have from Jerry Thompson show the various stops Bundy made for gas along his route to Utah, and there is a gasoline purchase in Burley, Idaho on the 3rd, but this is probably after midnight while Bundy was on the last-leg, as they say, of his trip. So he was not in Tacoma on the 3rd of September. Still, it’s a very informative site.

• 254. Vidor  |  May 14th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

  I saw that too, that they have him buying something in Tacoma a day after he left for Utah. Not sure what the deal with that is.

  I read on the Internet that there’s a ‘haunted Seattle’ tour that stops by the Rogers rooming house where Ted kept all those severed heads. I wonder if his apartment complex is still there and, if it is, if the current resident is aware that a bunch of girls were murdered there. That would make for some conversation at a Friday night keg party.

• 255. Vidor  |  May 14th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

  BTW, Mr. Sullivan: $45 at Amazon for your book? Pricey.

• 256. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 14th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

  Vidor–

  Yeah, I’ve heard about the Seattle tour, and I’d like to know if the folks who live there now know what kind of fiend once walked those floors?!!

  When I stopped at the 565 First Avenue address in Salt Lake City, I asked one of the college kids if he knew who once lived there (the place still serves students) and he had no idea. I told him about Bundy, and while he nodded his head in agreement as to understanding who he was, he looked at me rather oddly for telling him! Go figure.

  Concerning the price of the book let me say this: Those who purchase my book will very quickly see the difference in many of the true crime books currently “out there”; That is, it is meticulously researched and documented, and it isn’t one of the hurry-and-grind-one-out type of books you so often see on the market today. I have literally left no proverbial stone unturned in my search for the truth. I’ve also had the cooperation of all of the lead detectives on the case, and I’ve uncovered new information about some of these murders that has never before in prin. As I’ve said many times before, I follow Bundy’s trail of murder in a way that is quite unique. As such, I believe it is fair to say that the lasting value of having something like this far exceeds the cost of the original price. I’ve spent this much on books before, and I can assure you, when I did, they were worth every penny.

• 257. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 14th, 2009 at 3:35 pm

  5th line from the bottom: What happened to my “t”? Oh well, make that “print” LOL!!

• 258. Fiz  |  May 14th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

  Vidor, the publishers set the book cost, not the author! Ask them, not Kevin!

• 259. Vidor  |  May 14th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

  Oh, I’ll buy it. As I said, if Mr. Sullivan had done nothing more than get Bill Hagmaier on the record for the very first time, his book would be worth it.

• 260. Vidor  |  May 14th, 2009 at 7:15 pm

  I think someone asked upthread about Bundy’s VW. While Jonathan Davis of the band Korn did in fact own the car, he wound up giving it to a business associate named Arthur Rosenblatt after plans for a serial killer museum fell through.

  http://tinyurl.com/pw9ue2

• 261. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 14th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

  While I think you’ll very much enjoy the book for all that is new, how it is written, and the way I follow the story, I do not quote Bill Hagmaier to any great degree. What Bill did for me was give me a sense of what is was like dealing with Bundy at the end, and he was able to tie up some loose ends, as it were, having to do with that period. But because I don’t cover the period of Bundy’s end-of-life confessions (the facts of those confessions are scattered throughout the book) you won’t “see” a lot of Bill in there, yet I found his conversations with me to be invaluable. And I guess you can get a sense of it from my comments about Bill at this site.

• 262. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 14th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

  My above comment, of course, was meant for Vidor.

• 263. Vidor  |  May 17th, 2009 at 9:42 am

  Here’s something interesting. It’s the PCL-R test for diagnosing psychopaths. Warning: the website hosting the test has a political agenda, however, I believe the test as presented is accurate.

  http://www.arkancide.com/psychopathy.htm

  Ted scores a perfect 40, doesn’t he?

• 264. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 17th, 2009 at 11:41 am

  Interesting. And yes, not a fan of those two!

• 265. Fiz  |  May 17th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

  I read Richard O’Hare’s book ” Without Conscience”when it came out as I was concerned about my best friend’s husband (long story) and he scored eight of of ten on O’Hare’s checklist! His GP later diagnosed him as such. He hasn’t killed anybody, but he has left a trail of misery in the shape of 4/5 broken marriages, countless affairs, several children for whom he has never paid a penny in support, a line of jobs gained and lost. I’ve seen him change from a monster to a gentleman when he saw he was being observed and I thank my lucky stars my friend is well shot of him.

• 266. Fiz  |  May 17th, 2009 at 12:49 pm

  I used the site Vidor provided and my friend’s ex came out with 32 points, which makes him a psychopath, and most of the zero answers were due to lack of knowlege about his childhood and teen behaviour. She and her children had a narrow escape. As it is, his daughter doesn’t trust men and his son, who never spoke till this man left the house (a fact I find very telling) doesn’t understand why his father broke so many promises to him as a 16-18 year old and now has no contact with him as he can see for himself what a peice of work his father is.

• 267. Vidor  |  May 17th, 2009 at 1:42 pm

  Actually, now that I look at it, Ted might only get a 1 on question #12, “Early Behavior Problems”. AFAIK the only warning sign we know of in his early childhood is the notorious incident recounted in “The Stranger Beside Me” where he arranged a bunch of knives around his aunt in bed. So maybe that’s a 39 instead of the perfect 40.

  I’ve been reading Hervey Cleckley’s “The Mask of Sanity” (it’s available in PDF online for free) and all the case studies of psychopaths are people who were completely unable to integrate in society–constantly getting drunk, always getting arrested, etc. It’s impressive that Ted was able to wear his mask so well and get along in society as long as he did. If he hadn’t shown his face to witnesses at Lake Sammamish and gotten Liz suspicious he might never have come on the radar of the police.

  Of course, it was that kind of poor impulse control that did him in. He probably would have beaten the rap in the Campbell trial, and gone free in a couple of years if he’d resisted the escape impulse. If he had disposed of Kimberly Leach’s possessions like he’d always been so careful to do before they wouldn’t ever have been able to convict him of that murder, and probably ditto for Chi Omega if he’d been able to restrain from biting Lisa Levy or worn his ski mask as he went out the front door. For that matter if he’d been able to resist the impulse to kill people in Florida and successfully obtained a copy of Kenneth Misner’s birth certificate he probably could have remained free for years, like Sara Jane Olson did. But by then he was coming unglued and he couldn’t keep the mask up.

• 268. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 17th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

  Isn’t it odd how there are degrees to psychopathology? I mean, you have to have some degree of it (in my opinion) to function as a car salesman. The car sales crowd will be mad at me for saying this, but I know it to be true, as I sold cars at one time in my life. In that world, the sociopath can say all manner of things to customers, and it doesn’t matter that much (or most) of what they say are lies, it only matters that they soak the customer for as much money as possible. I’ve seen guys take advantage of old people in ways that are almost criminal, but they’d walk away from the deal laughing about how they “screwed them out of their money.” They never gave even one thought that what they might be doing will harm the old folks financially; none of that mattered.

  And of course, the sociopath can cheat on a spouse and think nothing about, or leave the children behind without the slightest thought for their well-being. Those who do such things DO have a form of this psychopathology. No, they may never commit actual murder like Bundy, but they can destroy lives emotionally and steal to their hearts content, and never miss a wink of sleep!

• 269. Claire  |  May 17th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

  I watched an interesting documenatry on Psychopathology. It said that there are lot of psychopaths in society who can function in every day jobs but whose relationships are messes.

  People hear the word psychopath and think of killers, it has negative connotations but just being egocentric is a pyschopathic trait. I would say that the nominally normal psychpathic individuals pose no physical threat but certainly an emotional threat to whoever they become involved with.

  Bundy was just not a normal pyschopath he was an extreme pyschopath.

  It’s interesting to think of what would have happened if he was never caught in Utah. In Keppel’s book he looks at the “what if”. He certainly may still be alive but would he still be murdering if he was never caught? Dennis Radar, the BTK killer, manager to go 10 years without klling so I suppose anything is possible. Mind you Radar did kill again, I guess murder really is like a drug to those people.

• 270. Vidor  |  May 17th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

  I was meaning to ask about that. Mr. Sullivan, presumably you’ve read Keppel’s book? What do you think of the scenario he builds for the Washington police arresting Bundy even if he hadn’t been caught in Utah?

• 271. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 17th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

  Hi Claire–

  I believe Ted was on a course of no return. That is, he was going to keep committing murder until he was apprehended or killed. I talk about this in the book, and I also point out the various aspects of his personality which would come into play that explains why it all came to a sudden end in Florida. Another killer in the exact situation may have been able to evade the authorities for years, but many factors played a part in stopping it all there. It will be an illuminating chapter, indeed.

• 272. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 17th, 2009 at 6:48 pm

  Vidor–

  While I understand that Ted came to the “top” of their list at the exact same time that Utah authorities were contacting them, the truth is this: Had Bundy stopped killing after he left Washington State, or, had he not been caught by the Utah Highway Patrol, and subsequently could have avoided Jerry Thompson, his chance of being arrested for any of the Washington murders was very small. True, the Washington cops may have ended up feeling that Bundy was “their man”, but without any REAL EVIDENCE, it wouldn’t have gone very far, in my opinion. And I don’t think, even with those folks they could present to the court who in fact saw Ted at Lake Sam talking with various women (and victims!) it would be a slam-dunk, as they say; not once his attorneys became involved in the matter. So Washington State may never have gotten justice had Utah not blown the lid off of Ted’s secret world.

• 273. Jason Nelson  |  May 17th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

  Thanks everyone for the discussion. One point that you made kevin which i am really interested about in your book is the factors that played apart in compelling Bundy to kill in Florida in that one chapter. My guess is that While Bundy was living at the oaks, he began to drink heavily during the evenings and this coupled with the fact that he had this deep need to find someone to kill, is there any other factors either internall or external which provoked teds need to kill in florida? It seems strange that just after a week of escaping prison, he decides to kill knowing that he would draw attention to himself and hinder any chances of him staying a free man.

• 274. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 17th, 2009 at 9:24 pm

  Jason–

  I take a close look at Bundy’s life in Florida that goes beyond just committing the murders. And while I can’t go into everything now (I’m sure you all are tired of hearing that!) let me say that Bundy’s biggest problem was Bundy! And after reading the book, you’ll see what I mean.

  But as to the murders themselves, well, he reached the point that he couldn’t contain it any longer and now people were going to die. But even having said that, there are reasons WHY Bundy killed as he did in Tallahassee, and I explore these as well.

• 275. bob fitz  |  May 18th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

  Fascinating site with threads that are very interesting. I worked Bundy in the late seventies as a supervisory special agent in the Behavioral Science Unit at the FBI Academy. My job was teaching death investigations with a specialty in sex crimes. The Unit collected enormous information. Anecdotally, we had a paste board with most of his suspected victims in the Unit bullpen. When Bundy’s ‘mother’ picture was added it became apparent that he was ‘killing her’ or a facsimile therof. I team taught with Bobbie Ressler who ultimately coined the phrase ’serial killer’. We reached quite a few law enforcement students who furnished info on these unsolved (at the time) cases. I’ve also handled Whitey Bulger the serial informant killer out of Boston (The Departed) fame or infamy. I worked with people out of the U of Pa on psychopathology which was edifying in ‘understanding’ these people’s ‘masks’. Graet job to Kevin and I will buy the book! Bob Fitz in RI.

• 276. bob fitz  |  May 18th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

  Catch my blog at http://www.theopencase.com featuring forensic case inspection of many sorts. I’m featured under ‘xgman’ and have contributed mostly psychological blogs of interest to all. Bob Fitz in RI

• 277. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 18th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

  Thanks, Bob, for the info. Very interesting!!

• 278. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 18th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

  I’m finding Bob’s blogs under ‘Ex-G-man’

• 279. Vidor  |  May 18th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

  I am interested to read Kevin’s take on it, of course, but Michaud and Aynesworth do a good job of recounting how Bundy simply came unglued in Florida. He just couldn’t keep it together. A rational man would have laid low at The Oaks until he could have stolen someone’s identity, as Ted was in the process of doing with Kenneth Misner. But he couldn’t do it. Dude was drunk all the time, slurring his words. “Regressed” as a serial killer from the smoothie that talked girls into his car into a wild animal. Drawing attention to himself by mouthing off about the murders to his fellow boarders at the Oaks. Murdering girls less than a mile from his house. I read in one of the books that when he was arrested he was wearing the same shirt he’d had on when he killed Kimberly Leach five days before. It must have been hard work to keep that mask on. In Florida he couldn’t do it.

• 280. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 18th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

  Vidor–

  Yes, M&A do an excellent job, not just with Florida, but the entire book!

  Every writer has a “voice”, as well as a different way of expressing information. And sometimes, information can be repeated throughout an on-going story so that that the reader gains a better understanding of whats happening with a person, (or a series of events) and why And you might say (without revealing a great deal here) that as narrator, I might be pointing out a thing or two they haven’t seen before; things to do with the murders, the victims. and Bundy himself. But again, this takes NOTHING away from previous works, but is merely born-out of the way I think, the way I conduct my research, and the way I approach a story from the beginning. In fact, remember in the beginning of the interview I mentioned that the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy? Well, the reason for that is simple: Once I gain the entire picture of Ted (at least as it exists today) my mind, just like a computer, begins to see very clearly the obvious gaps in a story, as well as the numerous unanswered questions. That’s the starting point. And once I get into the research, I try to locate everything, and continue to locate that which pops up along the way. I’m saying all of this now, while we’re on the proverbial doorstep of publication, so that you and everybody will know how all of this came about in the first place. And this is how I obtain my “take on it.”

  Kevin

• 281. Vidor  |  May 18th, 2009 at 11:40 pm

  Oh, I didn’t mean to imply that your book wasn’t worth reading, and I hope it didn’t sound as such. It sounds like you’ve found a fresh perspective. All the Bundy books are about Bundy as much as the murders, so, you know, we’ll get three pages on Caryn Campbell because they need a couple of chapters to describe his death row appeals or the Chi Omega trial or whatnot. A book on the murders as MURDERS, crimes to be solved, is a welcome addition to the Bundy canon.

  M&A’s book is the best of the current Bundy books, IMO, because besides simply being written better than any others from a technical standpoint, they do better than anyone else at probing his psyche and getting to what made Ted Bundy tick. Rule’s book utterly fails at that. Larsen’s book doesn’t even try. It’s written from the POV of the police more than anything. And Keppel’s book, while indispensable, really only covers the investigation in Washington state, although he does include Bundy’s confession to the Julie Cunningham murder.

  But I’m very much looking forward to yours and looking forward to the extra information on the crimes.

• 282. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 19th, 2009 at 12:13 am

  Oh, I didn’t think you were implying anything negative. I just wanted to explain how all this came about as I’m so limited as to what I can say prior to publication. I really do grow weary hedging on my answers sometimes! I think it’ll be great, once the book is out and I can discuss OPENLY what I discovered, what I thought about it as I discovered it, and how the book literally took on a life of its own as I was writing it. I know once readers begin reading the “new stuff” it will no doubt spark new questions, and that’s fine with me.

  Say, what did you think of “Ted Bundy: The Killer Next Door”?

• 283. Vidor  |  May 19th, 2009 at 10:28 pm

  I have never read “The Killer Next Door”. Had read elsewhere that it was superficial. Your recommendation tempts me to search used book sites.

  M&A’s book is first-rate. Rule’s book is hackwork, full of unsupported assumptions and crappy writing, really only worth reading for the accounts of her first-person meetings with Ted, and especially the story of the Crisis Clinic. Larsen’s book was OK. I liked the Keppel book a lot, although it is limited as a Bundy book, and I skimmed through a lot of the Green River Killer parts. Liz Kloepfer’s book reads like she’s more annoyed that he was a crappy boyfriend than the whole serial-killer business. (Honestly, I couldn’t help but feel that if he’d stayed in Seattle she’d never have gone to the cops.)

• 284. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 20th, 2009 at 12:11 am

  Vidor–

  You can pick up a copy of “The Killer Next Door” for a buck or two, and it’s a good read, as these guys really did their homework. And as far as I’m concerned, there’s nothing superficial about it. Surprisingly, I don’t think the book ever had a press-run other than the mass-market paperback we see today. Keppel’s didn’t either, except in the UK where they brought it out in hardback (I purchased one of the UK editions just because I wanted one in HB). Like you, I didn’t care to much for the Green River Killer end of the book, except as it pertained to Ted’s reactions as Keppel was showing him a case file, or conversing with him, etc.

  I really enjoyed the Larsen book, and as I’ve stated before, I’m really sorry I never got to meet the guy. My friend who first introduced me to Jerry Thompson and some of my Utah contacts, had spoken to Larsen on several occasions and found him to be quite interesting.

  Yeah, poor Liz had her battles, didn’t she? I talk about these mind-battles in my book. Yet, as I mentioned above, I believe she always wanted to do the right thing here, even though the personal loss she’d suffer would be great if in fact Ted turned out to be the fiend. It must have been the most horrible experience of her life.

• 285. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 20th, 2009 at 12:19 am

  Oh, and you’re right, the M&A book is first-rate. I hope mine has the same “staying power” as theirs has had lo these many years!

• 286. Vidor  |  May 20th, 2009 at 2:05 am

  One of my favorite things about “The Only Living Witness” is the Ann Rule insults. “An older female acquaintance with an active imagination.” Ha.

• 287. Vidor  |  May 20th, 2009 at 2:16 am

  Oh, I forgot: Polly Nelson’s book. Out of print, but absolutely indispensable for the Bundy student. Reveals more about Carole Ann Boone than any other source. Goes into more detail about Ted’s life on Death Row. Describes the murder of the anonymous hitchhiker in Idaho. Offers further insight into Bundy’s early career. Also a good read for anybody who’s interested in death penalty law. His various lawyers were pretty clever in managing to keep him alive for almost nine years after the Leach trial, given how badly the state of Florida wanted to fry him.

• 288. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 20th, 2009 at 7:19 am

  I missed that about Rule in M&A; I’ll have to check it out! And yes, Nelson’s book is good, and it does give one a good sense of how it was for Ted during his last years as he approached his ride with ‘Old Sparky’.

• 289. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 20th, 2009 at 10:31 am

  I agree “The Killer Next Door” is a good read. It starts out as a classic serial killer mystery where one girl after another disappears. The villain doesn’t show until later, in this case Ted’s Utah arrest. It’s well researched with Ted’s letters to his friends being the real gems. The Aspen map was great as it visually clarified the path he claimed he took. Until Kevin’s upcoming book, it was the only one where the authors didn’t know Bundy personally.

  Bob fitz, if you’re still out there, can you further discuss the idea that Ted was in a sense killing his mother?

• 290. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 20th, 2009 at 11:16 am

  You’re right, Richard, my book is only the second to be written by someone who didn’t know Ted. Very astute of you.

  BTW: I don’t know if Bob was joking, or not, but I don’t believe Bundy was killing because of some unresolved issues with his mother. Bundy had lots of issues, to be sure. But I don’t think “killing” his mother was one of them.

• 291. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 20th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

  Bob’s idea is interesting nevertheless. There was a discussion on Compuserve a few years ago relating to that.

• 292. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 20th, 2009 at 6:09 pm

  I once heard the theory that the killing began due to Bundy’s girlfriend from San Francisco dumping him, and because she had dark hair parted in the middle, this sparked in him that homicidal course of murder. This, in my opinion, isn’t true either. Bundy was by then well on his way to the life he’d been planning and choosing through his violent fantasy life. As such, if the dumping of Diane Edwards caused it, then in turn, the acceptance of Liz Kendall and her love for him should have put an end to it as well. So the slaughter of all the women, as I see it, had little to nothing to do with any of the women Bundy had known, be they girlfriends or his mother. What Bundy became is so extremely vile and unusual, that to just call him a sociopath doesn’t fully explain it. His brain was wired in such a way that we’re never going to figure him out completely. But I do think it’s safe to say his mother and girlfriends were not the driving force behind any of this. I know some will disagree with me, and that’s fine, but that’s the way I see it.

• 293. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 20th, 2009 at 7:16 pm

  The “killing the girl who dumped him” theory has been tossed around quite a bit, but I never heard the “killing his mother” theory. While I agree neither can explain him, a discussion about it could open up new insights.

• 294. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 20th, 2009 at 9:23 pm

  Actually, this is the first time I’ve heard the “mother” thing advanced concerning Bundy. You hear it with Kemper and some others, but it doesn’t surprise me that this is out there. I guess it’s an honest attempt to explain the virtually unexplainable. But it just doesn’t “fly” with me.

• 295. Vidor  |  May 21st, 2009 at 2:08 am

  “Killing the girl that dumped him” is Anne Rule hack psychology, and an idea that Bundy specifically dismisses in “Conversations With A Killer”, the collection of the M&A interview transcripts.

  Kevin’s book might or might not address this, but it’s almost certain that Bundy had killed before he swept back into Stephanie/Diane’s life. I don’t think it was a matter of him “killing the girl that dumped him” as it is that the same pathology that sent him off on a murderous rampage also led him to humiliate the girl that had humiliated him. His rage, as it were, seeking another outlet.

• 296. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 21st, 2009 at 9:22 am

  Vidor–

  No, I don’t go down that road in my book. I don’t fault others for considering it, or even believing it, but I see no evidence of it concerning Ted. And the Diane thing is bogus too, in my opinion. However, Ted liked killing a certain kind of girl: mostly dark-haired, parted in the middle. Sometimes blond, but never, in my estimation, his first choice.

  Now, I don’t want to open a can-of-worms here, but I will relate an interesting story I received from a certain lead detective in the Bundy case, which will show you Ted’s preference for the women he killed. Once I say this, I will try to answer any questions some may have, but because of the situation being “delicate”, as it were, I will not be able to answer as freely as I would like to under normal circumstances. Also, I left this out of the book for obvious reasons, even though I wanted to find a way to include it.

  There was a young woman at Viewmont High School, in Bountiful, Utah, on the night Debra Kent went missing, who actually came up to Bundy because she thought he was good looking. She told this detective that she was wanting to make herself available to Ted, with the hope, of course, he’d ask her to leave with him. Bundy, however, showed absolutely no interest in her, but kept scanning the crowd. She continued to make eye contact with him, letting him know of her interest in him, but he paid little to no attention to her. Now, this girl was either part, or a full-blooded Native American, and the investigator told me that this is the reason Bundy refused to pick her up. Of course, I agree with his statement. As I said earlier, if you look at the women Bundy murdered, they are very similar in hair color and/or style. And they are all Caucasian.

• 297. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 21st, 2009 at 12:13 pm

  This is a valuable bit of info because it disproves Bundy’s assertion at one point that any similarity among his victims was mere coincidence.

• 298. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 21st, 2009 at 1:30 pm

  That’s true. And I wonder why he even bothered denying the obvious? Perhaps something in his brain just didn’t want to own up to it, as if his preferences for victims would cause society to think any differently about him; kind of like his unwillingness to admit to the enjoyment of killing young girls, but having no problem (towards the end) admitting to the killing of adult women. Strange thoughts, indeed.

• 299. george mcfadden  |  May 21st, 2009 at 6:06 pm

  It seems as if Bundy was decidedly single minded on that day,Nov 8,1974.Speaking of Utah,there was an anecdote concerning Laura Aime recounted in Larsens book.

• 300. george mcfadden  |  May 21st, 2009 at 6:13 pm

  Sorry,got cut off.Anyway,speculation was that Bundy had a personal,albeit brief ,relationship with Laura before her murder.Larsen thought it a possible significant departure in TED’S known modus operandi. I wondering what you guys thought about this.

• 301. Claire  |  May 21st, 2009 at 6:58 pm

  I think all the books out there have something to offer. Each coming from a different perspective. I have no doubt Kevin’s book will add something too. Some books are better written than others but I like Rule’s book despite all the criticism it has undertaken. It does not however explain any pyschology or motives. It’s true, Rule had it wrong with Diane causing him to murder innocent women.

  I’ve always wondered about the age thing. Ted Bundy is not classed as a paedophile but certainly if you take into account Kim Leach and Lynette Culver and a few other minors it is clear he was to some extent. Yet Julie Cunningham was only 2 years younger than Bundy when he murdered her so is it must be more of a look her goes for rather that age. The look of the women and girls has been addressed but never the ages.

  The Laura Aime connection would certainly be a significant departure to his MO. I remember reading in Liz’s book when he almost confessed to her from Pensacola, that he had tried to murder her. The way in which this would be done was to gas her to death with Carbon Monoxide fumes which again goes against the MO. I guess murder was on his mind 24/7 not as he would later describe it as being something which was only 20% of his thinking time.

  I’ve always overlooked the Killer Next door as I just thought it would offer nothing new to which I already knew but I’m going to hunt it down now thanks to the rave reviews.

  With regards to Nelson’s book I believe it to be the only book (so far) that has the Florida confessions in them. He mentions (again this could be a lie from Ted) that he did not intend to enter the Chi Omega house and that it was a spur of the moment thing. He says he had been planning on attacking another house. I wonder if he meant Chery Thomas’s house. Cetainly if this is how the Chi O murders happened then it shows the deranged state he was in, not thinking clearly.

• 302. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 21st, 2009 at 7:49 pm

  Hi Ted, Claire, and everyone–

  I did not include the Bundy/ Aime connection ’cause I’m somewhat skeptical about it. I also believe, (as Ted has mentioned) that he didn’t really want to hurt someone he knew, and I say this despite the “attempted” murder of Kendall on two occasions. I think knowing the person would have actually hindered Bundy when it came to his fantasy life and those things he wanted to do with them. Abducting and murdering a stranger, in Bundy’s world, was the ideal situation.

  I have my own theory as to why the murders of the Leach and Culver girls happened as they did, and I speak about them in the book. I also compare them to other murders he committed, and Ted’s psychological state when they occurred.

  Gotta go for now, but I’ll pick up where I left off later this evening.

• 303. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 21st, 2009 at 8:55 pm

  Chi Omega stood next door to Sherrod’s, and Bundy was familiar with it. I believe, based on what occurred that night, Bundy probably decided to attack the women of that sorority at least by 10 or 11 pm, so it wasn’t on the spur of the moment. He intended the Thomas girl to be perhaps his last kill of the evening, and I doubt he had any prior knowledge of her or her apartment before the murders at Chi O. Once he finished at the sorority house, he was simply on the hunt again, and it was Cheryl Thomas’ misfortune to have been chosen randomly by Bundy.

  And yes, I have a good deal to say about the changes in Bundy ; changes that were so evident in Florida.

• 304. george mcfadden  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 1:10 am

  Hi just wanted to point out bundy had stated that he had been or had been involved in “episodes” prior to the florida crimes.now we know he had killed young girls before kim leach.what about the chi omega attacks? bundy described the manson murder like a nightmare.he also said he had had thsee episodes before.any connection

• 305. Vidor  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 am

  ***This is a valuable bit of info because it disproves Bundy’s assertion at one point that any similarity among his victims was mere coincidence.***

  I think we’re conflating two different, albeit similar, things here. The speculation by Ann Rule was that Bundy was deliberately killing girls that looked like his ex-girlfriend. In fact there doesn’t seem to be much evidence that this is true.

  Bundy specifically denied it, saying that the victims simply “fit general standards of attractiveness”. That’s no doubt true. But they were HIS standards of attractiveness. Obviously, he had a type. So far as is known, all of his victims were white. Most were between the ages of 16 and 22, and many were college students–but Oliverson was 25, Cunningham was 26, Culver was 13 and Leach was 12. Most were brunettes, but Ott and Rancourt were blonde. Most were middle-class types, although he’s known to have offed hitchhikers. He isn’t known to ever have killed a prostitute, which for a serial killer is kind of unusual. Ott was barely five feet tall and weighed less than 100 lbs, Aime IIRC was six feet tall, but most of them were what one might consider attractive. He had a type. That’s obvious.

  On a completely unrelated subject, Google Earth and Google Maps are powerful tools. One can find the addresses of The Oaks and the Thomas apartment in Tallahassee by looking through one of the court briefs linked to from the Bundy Wikipedia page (the address of the Chi O house is obviously easy to find; the sorority is still there). So with Google’s various mapping tools you can see where these places relate to each other. The first thing that surprised me was how close they were, just a few blocks–obvious once you think about it, as Ted was on foot that night, not trolling in a VW, but still. The second thing, which I found quite revealing, is that the Chi Omega house is west of The Oaks, and the Thomas apartment is STILL FURTHER WEST. Such was Bundy’s mania that, after having attacked four girls, and knowing that the police were quite likely to soon appear, he did not scurry back to The Oaks but went in exactly the opposite direction, putting the police between him and his sanctuary, in order to attack yet another girl.

  Anyway…

  Kevin, why didn’t you include the story about the Native American girl who spotted Bundy at the auditorium in Bountiful? It’s not to embarassing to note that someone in attendance spotted a handsome, well-dressed man and was attracted to him.

• 306. Vidor  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 1:33 am

  “TOO embarassing”, not “to embarassing”, ugh

• 307. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 9:08 am

  George, keep in mind, Bundy may have killed the Burr girl, we just don’t know for sure. But we do know he’s a killer of very young girls, as well as women. I can’t remember where he referred to murder as “episodes” but I know he also called it “acting out”, in his attempt to sanitize it all.

• 308. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 9:36 am

  Bundy’s address in Tallahassee was 409 West College Ave, and yes, Google earth is amazing; especially when one uses the street view. Doing this, you can look at all angles of the street. And while the house in Tallahassee is no longer there (it burned down, I believe a few years ago) the massive Oak tree still stands in the front yard, and its branches are tremendous.

  And yes, Bundy’s sphere of murder is rather small in Tallahassee, isn’t it? Tell’s a lot about Ted’s mind-set at the time.

  I actually do mention the girl, Vidor, and I speak only of her seeing Bundy that evening, and how handsome she believed he was. Of course, she wasn’t alone here. Others who saw him that night said the same thing. But you know, I just couldn’t bring myself to relate something so personal as what she told the detective when he was conducting his investigation. I just felt like it wouldn’t be the proper thing to do. On a side note: After I finished this chapter, I attempted to locate her to ask her a question or two. These were things I could go back and insert into the story without any trouble at all. But as I was conducting my research just to track her down, I discovered she’d passed away some years earlier. I was surprised at that, seeing she was still such a young woman. I then considered contacting her parents, but almost immediately changed my mind. Nope, I thought, I think I’ll just leave them alone!

• 309. Jason Nelson  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 4:05 pm

  Hey everyone
  I would like to comment on what you said kevin in 303 with regards to Chi O and the Cheryl Thomas murders. I have seen two british documentarys in which it states that Ted DID have prior knowledge of Cheryl Thomas and her apartment before the events that transpired on that night took place. In one documentary called Serial Killers:Ted Bundy from the UK, i believe a florida detective stated that Bundy had seen Cheryl in a queue at a supermarket and proceeded to follow her to her apartment. He also stated that on the night of Chi O, Bundy was peeping into Cheryl Thomas’s premises and while he was trying to ‘relieve himself’ he was somehow disturbed and then he went to sherrod’s with the intention of returning to Cheryl Thomas house by later that evening.
  In relation to the Chi O killings, in the book TOLW by M&A, there were a number of police reports that suggest that the murders in Chi O was actually a spur of the moment. According to the evidence produced in TOLW, Bundy was seen muttering to himself on a park bench outside Sherrods by a group of males which suggests that he was contemplating what his next move should be. It is possible that he was angered at not finding any victims and so from there, he proceeded to stroll on the streets and came across a young girl who started to follow. She managed to escape, i believe, and then he asked two individuals for directions to the nearest holiday inn where it is believed he planned to visit to see if there were any women or girls that may be around. So with the fear of being seen, he decided that he will try the Chi O after seeing women leave and enter the premises.
  My general theory is that on that fateful night, Bundy had every intention to kill and due to the changing circumstances that took place that night, his compulsion went beyond any self-restraint he may have had and this is reflected in the disorganised way he murdered the young women.

• 310. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 4:49 pm

  Hi Jason

  I don’t know if Bundy had seen Thomas that night, but (and I describe all of this in detail in the book) he spent a good portion of that evening trying to obtain a victim, but was unsuccessful. He was also seen by witnesses peering into various apartment windows at different times that evening, but I do not know if this included the Thomas apartment. It’s possible he did look in her window at some point, and return later, but I certainly do not think it was a case where he actually targeted her from a store somewhere, followed her home, went other places, and returned to her apartment later and attacked her. That would have been far too much organization for Ted to deal with at this point in his life. He had greatly changed, and he was no longer the careful (careful, as in trying to conceal his intentions) killer he had been in the preceding years. As such, I think the assault on Thomas was totally random, and I found nothing in my research to point me in the other direction.

  Concerning the attack on Chi O: Without going into great detail, let me say that Bundy was well aware that many Chi O members could always be found at Sherrods, and he understood this long before the night of the attack. And on that very night, Bundy tried in vain to lead women away from the night-club but everyone refused his offers, and it seems without question that Ted knew Chi O members were in attendance. Now, based on the time-frame of his activities, and the statement someone made outside the club later that evening (no doubt Bundy) it is entirely possible Ted decided to attack them by at least 11 pm, but certainly (in my mind) no later than midnight. And if sometime around midnight is correct, then you can’t really call that the spur of the moment, as Bundy wouldn’t enter Chi O until well after 2 am. Having said all of this, I still believe that Bundy tried numerous times in vain to capture women throughout the night, and that if he’d been successful, he would not have attacked Chi Omega. And as you will see in my book, I address this very issue, and once you see what I have to say about WHY ted ultimately made this decision, you’ll be saying “Oh, I see that”. At least I hope so, LOL!!

• 311. Claire  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 6:35 pm

  There’s a lot of confusion it seems with the Chi O murders. Hopefully we will be going “aghh I see” come July. Is it likely to be July now Kevin?

  I do think although Ted was not careful he must have sobered up a bit when carrying out the attacks because nobody heard him. I think that hadn’t it not have been Nita Neary the attack might not have been reported till morning (at least normal waking time).

  I think the “episodes” that George is refering to is to “frenzy episodes”, going from my reading of Defending the Devil. He states that he had gone through a fenzy episode or two when asked if anything like the Chi O attacks had happened before. I took it Ted meant attacking lots of women on the same night.

• 312. Jason Nelson  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 7:54 pm

  Hi Kevin
  The documentary which stated that Bundy met Cheryl Thomas in a supermarket queue on a earlier occasion was Conversations with a Serial Killer. I think its possible that this fact may have been inaccurate but coupled with another documentary which is called Ted Bundy: Serial Killer (another UK documentary), it was stated that Bundy had been peeping into Cheryls room and had plans to burglarise her premises at some point prior to the Chi O attacks. I was thinking this may have been correct because as Bundy was in what he called his ‘barbaric’ and drunken state, i believe it was unlikely that he could randomly locate Cheryls apartment without having prior knowledge of where her premises was. I believe that he must of come across the same apartment before based on the manner in which he entered the premises (through the kitchen window) and the state of mind he was in at the time.
  lol i am really looking forward to finding out why Bundy made a number of decisions on that night as you could probably tell that i have an interest as to the events that transpired that evening. One question about the timings is that if Bundy had decided to attack the girls at the Chi O house at 11pm, then why would he approach two individuals (both males) and ask for directions to a Holiday Inn between 2.30-3.00am and also stalk and chase another female two hours before he entered the Chi O house? As you say he did have knowledge that members of the Chi O house frequented in sherrods but the timings above indicate that his decision to literally go into the house and blugeon the girls inside was made at the last minute. His initial plan was to find someone who was out, in terms of in a club, walking down the street etc. Once he failed in finding a victim, with his knowledge that the Chi O house was full of sleeping Co eds, he decided to enter and commit the attacks. Generally, my idea is that the Chi O murders were random and the Cheryl Thomas was not.

• 313. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 pm

  Hello Claire, Jason, and all…

  Several points: Although Bundy was drinking, the energy driving him to kill came from deep inside him. As such,if he was tipsy, or stumbling (and he certainly wasn’t stumbling) it had little to do with that terrible desire to murder he was unleashing on that night. True, alcohol was a jump-starter for Ted, but he didn’t need it as an aid to murder, he just enjoyed his “jumping-off” points while feeling the effects of the drink. So it’s not like he sobered up and said: “Oh my God, what have I done?” We might say, the alcohol produced the FIRST altered state of the evening, but only a minor one. The real “kicker” for Ted came in anticipation of, and during the attack.

  Also, you really do need to wait to read that portion of my book to understand what I’m talking about when it comes to a time-line. Where I know something for a certainty, I say so, and when I’m not sure I’ll either not state an exact time, or I’ll handle it another way. However, I do break some things down to minutes, and I place all the players - the cops, Bundy- and the victims- in the scene (if you will!) and show you what they’re doing at the same time. Don’t ask me to be more specific at the moment ’cause I can’t.

  You know, while it’s my opinion that Bundy probably stumbled upon the Thomas residence, I won’t be dogmatic about it. Perhaps he did see her earlier and came back to to get her. But we must remember, Ted Bundy thought nothing of walking up to the windows of strange houses when he was looking for a victim. No matter how he came upon Cheryl Thomas, he peeked into many windows that night, and all of them were in a relatively close proximity to one another. As such, it could have easily been a random attack.

  Also, what about the Holiday Inn? I can’t recall it from my research pertaining to Florida (that is, not a Holiday Inn having to do with Tallahassee), but that doesn’t mean I didn’t see something about it somewhere and either felt it wasn’t important to the story, and now I’ve simply forgotten it.

  I’m not sure if the book will be out in July, but perhaps it will. Perhaps the production staff at McFarland is moving faster than I anticipated, so we will have to see. I know that once I receive the page proofs, I will read through the entire book to make sure everything looks okay, and I’ll add the page numbers to the index I’ve already created. Then, the following morning I will “over-night” the package to them, and at that point (I’m told) the book may only be days from press time! So we’ll see.

• 314. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 23rd, 2009 at 12:15 am

  Just wanted to let everyone know that I just went to a site: tower.com books, and they have a large listing of new McFarland books with a release date of July 5, 2009, and this includes my book. This, of course, goes with what others have been seeing at Amazon and others, etc. So having seen so many McFarland titles with a July 5, ‘09 date makes me think that it’s probably an actual (or very close to actual) release date. So that’s good!

• 315. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 23rd, 2009 at 3:30 am

  A correction: I rechecked the manuscript (I hadn’t read this portion in a while) and I have witness describing her confrontation with Bundy at Sherrods at approximately 12:30 am. So that would probably make it sometime around 1:00 am when Ted must have made the decision to enter Chi Omega. However, because of something that happened soon after this encounter, its obvious to me that Bundy had already determined to attack the sorority later; later being after Sherrods had closed, which is in fact what he did. Of course, at that point there was still a chance, had Ted found what he was looking for on the streets after he left Sherrods, he may not have attacked Chi O at all. So we still have a time-line of perhaps two hours where Bundy contemplated and was in the process of waiting for the proper moment to enter the premises. The “window” of time may be a bit smaller from my above comment, but not by much, and it is enough to make it a somewhat premeditated act in legal terms. Anyway, in the interest of exactness, I wanted to pass that along.

• 316. Jason Nelson  |  May 23rd, 2009 at 5:32 am

  That encounter with a witness at 12.30 am must of been the girl he was chasing along the street which was said to be roughly 2-3 hours before Bundy struck in the Chi O house. From then, he must of strolled around looking for victims and then by 2.30-3.00 am he decided to attack the girls in Chi O. Would that be a fairly accurate statement? That would concur with that gap in time where Bundy was contemplating entering the Chi O betwen 12.30 am and 2.30 am.

• 317. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 23rd, 2009 at 8:09 am

  Actually, there were two women, and both were at Sherrods, and later gave statements to police. Bundy was not getting anywhere with them or anyone else at the club and may have left soon after this encounter. However, he may have stayed in the vicinity and I believe, based on other factors which are in the book, his plan to attack Chi Omega was hatched soon after this.
  Like I said in the above post, it had been a really long time since I had read that portion of the manuscript, so I missed the time frame a little bit by speaking off the top of my head, as it were. But the key element in all of this (in my mind) was that Ted, soon after his last KNOWN failure in the club, decided to attack the sleeping coeds next door. I believe he made the decision to do so based on something I talk about it the book, and something he said to a lady on the street as she was passing by him. And it was most likely almost two hours before the actual attack.

  Also, the lady he chased down the street was earlier in the evening, and I write about that incident as well. So I cover this activity from all angles, and I believe my book will give the reader a clear picture of his rather disjointed activities on that evening. Keep in mind too, that Bundy never really wanted to talk a lot about the events of that evening, and he was more than happy to keep people in the dark about it. But no matter, there were plenty of witnesses and events to paint an accurate picture of what transpired that night in Tallahassee.

• 318. Fiz  |  May 23rd, 2009 at 5:48 pm

  Everything that happened in Florida was appalling, but another thing that upset me so much is that Cheryl Thomas, although she did not not die, did so effectively. Cheryl was a dancer and Bundy’s attack on her destroyed the nerves that help balance. A.and M. have her learning to rebalance and trying to learn to dance again, Ann Rule, who attended both Florida trials has Cheryl limping into court and being unable to dance ever again. If you’ve danced, you’re addicted (take it from me, I used to dance) and to find out you cannot do so again is devastating. “Dancing, which had been her life and was to be her future, was no longer possible” to quote Ann Rule. He might just as well have killed Cheryl too.

• 319. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 23rd, 2009 at 8:02 pm

  Hi Fiz–

  And just think, if it wasn’t for the persistence of her neighbors, on the other side of the wall at their duplex, Bundy would have most certainly killed her. At least she lived through the ordeal. Still, she suffered terribly because of the attack.

• 320. Nicole  |  May 25th, 2009 at 4:37 am

  Hi, I think it is great that you are taking the time to discuss your book with us. I am disappointed your book won’t be out in time to help with my essay but I think I will buy it anyway since I’m very curious about the new insights. Earlier in these comments you mentioned that you had found out some bizarre things that were fit for the tabloids. I was wondering if you wouldn’t mind sharing some of those bizarre things you found out but could not include in your book. I’ll probably never find out otherwise. I was also wondering if anyone knew what Ted Bundy said to his mother during the phone call the night before he died. I’m not sure if I actually read that he confessed to his mother before he died or not.

• 321. Fiz  |  May 25th, 2009 at 6:53 am

  Nicole, one thing I know he said to his mother was”I’m sorry I’m not the man you always thought I was”, which has to one of Ted’s famous oblique “confessions” . Louise, poor woman, is said to have replied,”You’ll always be our precious son”. Personally I feel sorry for Jonny Bundy - he took Ted and Louise, and his surname has turned into the word for ultimate horror.

• 322. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 25th, 2009 at 11:29 am

  Hi Nicole–

  There were only a few times when I heard something so strange that I felt I couldn’t put it in the book, but no, I couldn’t divulge it in a public forum. These are privacy issues, and I am cognizant of the fact of how important these issues are when dealing with innocent people. Suffice it to say that you’re not missing anything; and certainly not anything about Bundy. Everything strange he ever did is in the book, I assure you.

  Bundy said something like “there was a part of me that was hidden all the time.” I remember seeing the photograph taken by a photographer from the Tacoma News Tribune showing Louise Bundy talking to Ted on the phone from her home during that last conversation. Very sad situation for the Bundy family.

• 323. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 25th, 2009 at 11:36 am

  Hi Fiz–

  You’re so right. What a nightmare for the Bundy family. People have a tendency to forget that Bundy destroyed his family as well. Even though I never had the chance to interview any of his immediate family, I assure you, the events of Ted’s life have, in some form or another, altered their lives forever. They too are victims of his crimes, but the suffering will be somewhat different than those of the families of the murdered girls. But it’s suffering nevertheless!

• 324. Jason Nelson  |  May 25th, 2009 at 12:33 pm

  I believe that Ted spoke to his mum twice before he was executed. Both of them were to his mother and he made one attempt to contact Carol Boone who i believe did not answer the phone. I dont even think anyone showed up to his last visit except for his lawyer and Diana Weiner which proves how much Ted hurt the people most close to him.
  I recently recieved a copy of Polly Nelsons book on Ted Bundy and reading through the court transcript taken from the appeal court, it was stated by a psychatrist (I think Dr Lewis or someone else) that Ted suffered from bi-polar mood disorder and a timeline was produced in which certain periods in his life could be explained in relation to his illness. What are your views on this? is it possible that Ted was in fact bi-polar?

• 325. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 25th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

  Hi Jason–

  Keep in mind, Dr. Lewis was looking for ways to keep Bundy alive. There are many in the medical field that do not believe someone like Bundy could simply be evil. No, they expound, it’s a chemical problem in their body, or their brain, or any number of things; as if, even if it’s true, that’s an excuse for his diabolical crimes. By doing so, they make him THE VICTIM, and in that position, they hope to receive mercy from the court and society. And for all of their education, and their supposed intelligence, they show themselves to be exceedingly lacking in good judgment. Believe me, I have seen some very vile killers walk FREE, after the medical field said they were no longer a danger to society (after first saying they were too mentally ill to be tried in a court of law, thus saving them from the the law). Yet they were every bit as dangerous when they left their care. Unbelievable.

• 326. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 25th, 2009 at 2:54 pm

  Make that one “the” in the above comment, LOL!!

• 327. Nicole  |  May 25th, 2009 at 4:07 pm

  I appreciate the responses. Oh, right. Sorry! I hadn’t considered the privacy issues. When so much is out in the open already it is too easy to lose sight of that.
  I feel very bad for his family as well. Kind of related to that - why did Ted start crying during his mother’s testimony in the Chi Omega trial? It is probably all speculation anyway but I don’t imagine he was crying for her. Is it more likely to have been for himself because, like in his last confession that was just shared, he was not who she believed he was?

• 328. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 25th, 2009 at 4:51 pm

  Ted was capable of honest moments, however fleeting they may be. For example, he was not happy having to admit he was the vile killer the law had been saying he was all along, for he understood it was going to hurt certain people he loved; in whatever manner Ted-the-sociopath could love. I am sure it bothered him greatly to know how terribly this was going to hurt his immediate family; especially his mother and his younger brother Richard. He was also feeling badly about how Carol Boon’s son (Jason?) was taking it when he learned the truth about Ted. So Bundy was able to feel remorse over being found out, because of how it effected his family, but we can’t mistake that for actual remorse. Ted was never sorry for having committed murder. But he did feel badly about hurting certain people with which he maintained an emotional connection.

• 329. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 25th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

  Carole Boone’s son was Jamey.

• 330. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 25th, 2009 at 8:42 pm

  Thanks, Richard. I couldn’t remember the kid’s name off the top of my head.

• 331. Topelius  |  May 26th, 2009 at 9:45 am

  So, how and when did this Jamey learn the truth about Ted Bundy?
  How did he actually react? What about Carole Boone, how in the world did she think that her “bunny” was innocent after the trial, huh.

  One thing about Ted came up to my mind. Have you noticed how vicious his blows to his victims were, after all, Ted was rather small and, skinny, if you will. Where did all that power come from..

• 332. bob fitz  |  May 26th, 2009 at 10:19 am

  Last post 5/19/09: With regard to Bundy ‘killing his mother’ there was nothing ’scientific’ about it just a SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) given our FBI caseload of other suspected serial killers. I think of the serial killer in California (Kemper?) ‘killing his mother’ as I recall those bull pen sessions. When teaching homicide or death investigations we instructed the cops to bring an unsolved case from his jurisdiction. As a unit in class we would then attack the case in depth. Solved a few too (I recall several sexual asphyxiacs (accidental deaths) both male and female as eye openers). We worked with pathologists primarlly and each student had to witness the autopsy. Kinda ‘hands-on’ and OJT training all at once. I also taught Hostage and Terrorism but mostly from a psycholinquistic viewpoint through threat analysis and proxemics and pupillimetrics (ph). Nothing has changed substantially as ‘human nature’ has not changed substantially. Just a different environment and more aggressive escalation. What I recall about Bundy is the ‘escalation’. No real ‘rhythm’ but more bodies (some copy cats etc.) spurring more intensive investigation. We initiated profiling mostly through the inductive process of pattern analysis nationwide. In the FBI we instructed nationally and internationally and built up a great database. It worked well with some of the greatest agents I’ve ever worked. Now, you can watch it all on TV! Bob Fitz in RI.

• 333. bob fitz  |  May 26th, 2009 at 10:40 am

  With regard to Bundy’s psychopathology I recall he was an exemplar of the youthful tryadic homicidal personality: bed wetter, animal getter and fire setter (as I related to my students for recall). Not having the benefit of perusing every thread on this site, I don’t know if this was discussed. Bundy had no remorse! He was a BS’r’s BS’r'! Pschopaths have high intelligence and read their adversary intuitively. They ’smell’ fear which I used to say was their ‘exciting agent’. With regard to their viciousness; their rage has something to do with it. I know of no ‘kinder’ psychopath. Bulger played with his victims (in one case pulling teeth, mutilating, and shooting the guy twice because he didn’t die with the first shot). He pleaded for Bulger to kill him. Bulger, as an FBI informant was torturing an FBI informant! Irony? No, just sadism and rage with perverted brain distortion. Bundy could and did act out in the same manner. I believe he played with his victims in the a similar manner as Bulger; as most sadistic psychopaths do under their control. Psychopathology is on the rise, I suspect, along with aggression and with the incarceration records it will get worse. It’s tough out here so watch yourself. Bob Fitz

• 334. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 26th, 2009 at 10:44 am

  Hi Topelius–

  I don’t know how Jamey reacted, but I’m sure it came as a shock to him. As far as Bundy’s strength, well, it doesn’t take a great deal of muscle to swing a crowbar, and the real destructive power is in the crowbar. But since we’re on the subject, I remember one person writing how strong Ted’s arms were, after she observed them. Well, I have to tell you, I have been lifting weights for years, and Mr. Bundy’s arms, chest, etc, looked quite scrawny to me! LOL!!

• 335. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 26th, 2009 at 10:56 am

  Hi Bob–

  Yeah, I believe Kemper was killing his mother! And yep, folks like Bundy never feel remorse; at least not for the murders. My recent above posts were statements of Bundy’s “remorse” for having to confront the truth publicly, and as such, being exposed for what he is to his mother, his brother Richard, etc. But, as I’ve stressed over and over again: Bundy, and those like him, LIVE to commit murder, and they are similar in nature to the unfeeling sharks in the ocean. And if Bundy could come back and do it all again, he would!

  You have a great deal of experience behind you, Bob, and it all appears exceedingly interesting!

  Have a nice day.

  Kevin

• 336. bob fitz  |  May 26th, 2009 at 11:16 am

  Kevin: Could you elaborate on the tryadic homicide facet of Bundy’s personality? I relaize you are under strictures prior to publication but if you could generally ’say’ something it might be of interest to your audience. I wasn’t chiding you on ‘remorse’, I just wanted to underscore the ‘remorselessness’ of psychopaths (the antisocial personality disorder APD) as it is called today (DSM–diagnostic styled manual of pschiatric taxonomy). My belief is that the DSM is amorphic with regard to the aggressiveness and concomitant lack of remorse on the part of psychopaths or whatever they are calling them these days. Bob Fitz

• 337. Vidor  |  May 26th, 2009 at 11:43 am

  ****He might just as well have killed Cheryl too.****

  Ms. Thomas, who would be about 50 now if she’s still alive, would doubtless disagree.

  AFAIK Bundy’s stepson didn’t find out he was guilty until the confessions at the end. Although, given how Carole Boone left Florida in 1986 and never came back, one wonders if he confessed to her then.

• 338. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 26th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

  Bob-

  I cover Bundy’s psychological changes prior to, and during his career of murder, and I specifically do not get into the scientific jargon from academia to define him. It would, I believe, be counter-productive, and like I mentioned in a post above, I’m more interested in what Ted did, then why, for the “why” of his life can never be fully solved anyway.

  And no, I didn’t think you were chiding me.

  KMS

• 339. Claire  |  May 26th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

  In his recorded confessions with Bob Keppel Ted says that he wanted to explain everything in context because he “saw the look in his stepson’s eyes” and Jamey wrote off questions to him because he just couldn’t understand the “why”.

  As far as I know Carole moved back to Seattle to be near her mother after her mother was in car accident. It’s odd though that she never moved back to FL. Nelson states that she was hurt because of Diana Weiner and thye confessions and that is why she never said goodbye.

  I’ve always thought that he must have been in a tyranical rage becasue of his lean body. He really does not seem to have upper body strength, so yeah it’s odd. I know a few body builders who could not possibly do as much damage with a crowbar as Ted did.

• 340. Fiz  |  May 26th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

  Claire, if a woman is walking infront of a “disabled” man she is off -guard. There’s a lot of information to the effect that Bundy tended to walk behind and certainly attacked from behind. If you are in heels, longish skirts that were around in the 70’s and are helping out a charming young man in a cast, you are totally unaware of any threat and Ted only had to hit once. The Omega-Chi girls and Cheryl were asleep - no resistance there. It all shows what a pitiful coward Bundy was.

• 341. Claire  |  May 26th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

  Hi Fiz,
  I was just saying that he must have been able to gain enough strength to cause a fatal blow because he was in this homicidal rage. I remember watching a documentary that said that humans can, given the right circumstances, lift cars and even trucks. The docu was about surviving and not about the compulsion to kill. I feel when in the mood to kill he must have had more energy and strength than normal.

  His victims, given the way he attacked, really could not have done much. Carol DaRonch is a certainly a strong woman who is very lucky.

  Keppel uses the best description of him, a chicken s**t killer who had nothing on Gary Ridgeway after he described what happened to Georgeann Hawkins.

  I thank god, for my own safety personally, that the ruses of these killers are common knowledge. There’s always been the “don’t talk to strangers” attitude but now I think women are more on guard or certainly more ready to run when something doesn’t feel right.

• 342. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 26th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

  Hi Claire, Fiz, Vidor, and all…

  Let’s be clear about muscle, crowbars, and smashed skulls: It doesn’t take a muscular person to kill somebody with a blow to the head. If the instrument is heavy enough, it really doesn’t take a great deal of muscle-power to deliver a fatal blow. A teenage girl, weighing 98 pounds, could do it in one hit. So Bundy could easily do the job, as any teenage boy could. But he was in fact quite scrawny in build.

  And yes, during certain times, a person can be imbued with almost super-human strength, that’s true. But I do not believe Ted was in any type of “rage” when he struck the women; though he was in an altered state of mind at the time, being in a predatory mode with all the accompanying feelings.

• 343. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 26th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

  Bob–

  I do continually refer to one aspect of “scientific jargon”, and that would be the “mask” Bundy wore that was so well described by Dr Hervey Cleckley; a mask that was so much a part of Ted during his lifetime. But as to those things which may have played a part in “creating” him, I stay clear of it as much as possible, for as I said in my post above, the “why” of Theodore Bundy is not easily defined, and will not, in my opinion, ever be fully understood. I do, however, paint a detailed picture as to the many oddities of his youth, as well as cover the many mental and emotional changes which occurred in the years leading up to the murders, and the very specific transformations which took place during his years of murder. Anyway, I thought you might like a more detailed answer than the one I’ve given above.

  Kevin

• 344. Jason Nelson  |  May 27th, 2009 at 10:06 am

  Hi everyone
  The injuries sustained by a number of Bundy’s victims suggest that Bundy may have acted in fits of rage when trying to incapacitate the victim. i.e Laura Aime was found to have a number of bruises and contusions on her body when she was found which indicates that either there was a struggle while Laura was conscious or he had beaten her while she was unconscious. I personally believe with a statement that was mentioned above that Bundy easily struck his victims when they were unaware it was going to happen and it was generally on the back of the head when the victim had their heads turned. It does conform with Bundys own statement that he did not intend to torture his victims physically although it is evident that he did so mentally.

• 345. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 27th, 2009 at 5:32 pm

  Hi Jason,

  Remember too, that some contusions, scratches, etc, were caused when Bundy was transporting them to his car, through the woods, etc. But yes, anything is possible as to a victim putting up a fight, and Bundy received some injuries this way as well.

  Kevin

• 346. bob fitz  |  May 28th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

  Computer crashed. C’est la computer mort! Re the triad stuff: bed wetter, fire setter and animal getter we found a correlation in the backgrounds of lots of suspected serial killers. The bed wetter; not the enuresis type, j’ust ‘pissed’ people off’. We would get lotsa laughs but the control factors are obvious in adolescence. The fire setter was pure control and satisfaction in revenge a lot and the ‘exciting agent’ of fire and chaos. The animal getter is a prelude to ‘torture’ of people later on. When we found the body of the lady in Colorado (dentist’s girlfriend?) the dentist immediately became a suspect. Bundy grabbbed her from the motel as I recall and it just so happened we were giving a homicide class to Colorado LE. We discussed the triad in depth and later Bundy was developed as a suspect. In fact, about this time we started to see in class a lot of homicides across the ‘West’ and those areas. Bundy was a bit of an enigma in many facets of personality.

  In my own blog (theopencase) I’m currently discussing Sen. Roland Burris (Illinois) and the FBI tapes. I was involved in ABSCAM investigation of Senator Harrison Williams (New Jersey) whom we taped on my undercover boat in Miami. I supervised ABSCAM and Williams was found guilty of corruption. As I used to tell people it’s his voice on the tape. I would say the same for Burris–it’s his ‘quid pro quo’ on the tape. In a thumb nail analysis I would vote thumbs down on him. But, he’ll probably skate! Take care. Bob Fitz on the Rhoad in little Rhoadie.

• 347. bob fitz  |  May 28th, 2009 at 1:29 pm

  My point above regarding the body found. It was quite mutilated but we determined that the animals did most of the damage. That was one of our best classes in view of the evidence we had to deal with and the notoriety of the case. Bob Fitz

• 348. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 28th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

  Bob–

  Yeah, I’m familiar with the triad of bed wetting, fire, and animal torture, and how all of these (or perhaps one or two) can often be found in the killer’s history. In Bundy’s case, there was talk of his grandfather being violent, to both humans and animals, but I didn’t come up with any bed wetting, fire, etc directly associated with Ted. I’m not saying it might not be there somewhere, but even if it is (perhaps in a still-closed medical report!) it wouldn’t have altered anything I’ve said or written about Bundy.

  I cover in detail the Caryn Campbell abduction from the Wildwood Inn, and If you pick up a copy of the book, you’ll find that chapter quite informative as to how Ted pulled it off, and certain things he later admitted to. Say, do you know Mike Fisher? He was the lead investigator in the case, and the first to bring a murder warrant against Theodore.

  And yes, ABSCAM! I remember it, and I always find such things to be quite enjoyable when I hear about them.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 349. bob fitz  |  May 28th, 2009 at 6:31 pm

  Kevin: I don’t recall Mike being in the class at CO. It was an exciting time I do recall. From an investigative point of view our blood was boiling. Who could do this heinous thing? What monster are we looking for? And, so on! I have your book on order (I think) as Amazon didn’t list it per se. I’ll get it though. You have a great and deeply provocative site here. Keep up the good work.

  With regard to ABSCAM that was my cerebral side dealing with WCC (White Collar Crime). I enjoyed the scammer, some of whom are psychopaths although their acting out is less violent. They do hurt people though. Take Madoff who made off with with many people’s life resources. A ‘petite morte’ but a death nonetheless. Take care. Bob Fitz

• 350. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 28th, 2009 at 7:20 pm

  Bob–

  No, Mike wasn’t in any classes that I’m aware of, as he was chief investigator and had his hands full gathering evidence and chasing a homicidal ghost.

  You should be able to order the book just about anywhere now; just type in “The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History”.

  I wish I could take credit for the site (Executed Today is exceedingly unique, and always interesting!) but I’m just a guy who shows up to answer questions on the enigma we all know as Theodore Bundy! And believe me, I never expected the questions and answers to ever reach # 350, but here we are, and I’m certain it will continue long after the publication of my book.

  As to Mr. Madoff: When I first saw video tape of him walking the streets of NY after his arrest, and just out of camera range you can see an arm pushing him; well, understanding human nature as I do, and fully grasping how many people were now hating him (and no doubt wanting revenge) I wondered why some nut wasn’t trying to take him out. After all, if you make enough people really angry at you, statistically speaking, you do enhance the risk of someone attacking you. But when you study the video, Madoff, who is wearing a black raincoat, seems undisturbed. And if you look closely, you can see the outline of the armpit portion of the bullet proof vest he’s wearing. Yet, if it were me, I don’t think I’d want to be there (in public) at all. For if he were to be “professionally hit” they’d go for a head shot, and it would be the proverbial done deal. As such, it surprised he was showing his face in public at all, LOL!!! He should be hiding out like the rat that he is!

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 351. Headsman  |  May 28th, 2009 at 8:52 pm

  Thanks for the kind words, Kevin.

  Your turning this post into a four-month-and-counting live chat is one of the best things going on this here site. Incidentally, this is already the second-most-trafficked page here, after Col. Stauffenberg, who had the benefit of a multimillion Hollywood advertising campaign.

• 352. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 28th, 2009 at 9:40 pm

  Hi Headsman–

  Well, since Stauffenberg was a good guy, and Theodore was a bad guy, perhaps that’s the way it should be!

• 353. Vidor  |  May 29th, 2009 at 11:48 am

  Would Bundy have beaten the rap in Colorado and eventually walked free if he had simply sat tight and eschewed escaping?

• 354. Fiz  |  May 29th, 2009 at 1:40 pm

  I’m not sure, Vidor. Carole Da Ronch was a very weak witness and had been coached like crazy by the police. However the same police said they were close to building a case against Bundy for the murder of Caryn Campbell, so who knows? I suppose we will just have to wait for Kevin’s book now!

• 355. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 29th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

  Hi Vidor, Fiz, and all–

  You know, I’ve heard some say the Colorado case was weak, and that he may have “walked” as the expression goes. But I kinda doubt it. Still, I don’t cover that in the book because Bundy did escape (twice) from the state, and the rest is history.

• 356. Vidor  |  May 29th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

  Carol DaRonch was not a witness in the Campbell case.

  Kevin can pitch in, but AFAIK from reading the other books, here’s what they had on Bundy in the Campbell murder:

  1) an unreliable eyewitness who failed to identify Bundy in a hearing. Would she even have testified in the actual trial? Who knows?
  2) a hair that matched Campbell, but “matched” in the 1970s fiber analysis sense, which basically meant that it was not an exact match like DNA analysis or fingerprints.
  3) the gas card receipts showing him in the area, and his lie that he’d never been to Colorado to impeach him with

  And that’s basically it. I think that if he’d simply gone to trial he’d have been acquitted, gone back to Utah, and probably been paroled sometime in the 1980s, presumably.

• 357. Fiz  |  May 29th, 2009 at 5:26 pm

  Carol Da Ronch caused Bundy’s first arrest and first escape. Therefore she is relavant.

• 358. Fiz  |  May 29th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

  It’s nice of Vidor to allow Kevin to pitch in - it’s only his thread and his book!

• 359. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 29th, 2009 at 5:43 pm

  Just before Bundy escaped for the second time, he was headed to El Paso County, Colorado to stand trial. it was a more conservative area of Colorado, and the folks down there passed out death sentences like they were going out of style. Bundy knew this and didn’t like it, and he certainly didn’t want to be tried in this district. And while a lot of the evidence against Ted was circumstantial, you never know what a jury is going to do. And this also goes if the trial had been left in Aspen (and had Bundy never attempted escape that first time, which increased, in the public’s mind, the possibility of his guilt). I have a copy of the warrant for arrest, where Mike Fisher lays everything out as to why he believes Ted is responsible for Caryn Campbell’s death, and it is very convincing, so you never know.

  Also, (and it’s been a while since I was researching and writing this portion of the book, so I could be forgetting something) but in the pretrial phase of things, I believe they heard testimony from Jerry Thompson and other Utah authorities. Mike Fisher tried to include “similar transactions” (between the Utah and Colorado murders) and worked very hard to get it, but these were later denied by the judge. Still, I cover this area of the investigation because of all the interesting things which came from it, so that the reader doesn’t miss out on some very revealing aspects of the case.

  So while I could be incorrect, I do believe Bundy had a very good chance of being convicted in El Paso, County, and perhaps a bit less chance had the trial been held in Aspen.

• 360. Claire  |  May 29th, 2009 at 6:39 pm

  I thought Ann Rule had knowledge they weren’t asking for the death penalty in Colorado. Certainlty he had a fair chance I believe, more so than in Florida because there were less press covering the trial in Colorado.

  Carol DaRoch would have testified in Colorado according to a letter written by Bundy to Liz. Quoted from her book pg 156 about the impedeing trial for Caryn Campbell’s murder, “the prosection filed a witness list and on it are the names: Carol DaRonch, Jerry Thompson, David Yocum and Robert Keppel”.

  I doubt even if he had been aquitted and served his Utah sentence he’d be free for long. He’d kill again and this time there would be more agencies after him. Utah and Washington were building a case for murder (s), albiet a circumstancial one, while he was in Utah in prison.

• 361. Claire  |  May 29th, 2009 at 6:55 pm

  I thought they weren’t asking for the death penalty in Colorado (i’m getting this from Ann Rule’s book)???

  Bundy believed Carol DaRonch would tetify in a letter he wrote to liz, quoted from her book pg 156 about the approaching Colorado trial “the prosecution filed a witness list and on it are the names: Carol DaRonch, Jerry Thompson, David Yocum and Robert Keppel”.
  Is this true Kevin, Jerry Thompson would have testified in El Paso?

  I beleive he had a fair chance in Colorado, more so than in Florida because less was known about him and there was less press coverage back then.

  Whether or not he would always be behind bars if he’d sat tight in Colorado, I doubt it. He was of more interest to WA and UT authorities after 1975 and so it would only be a matter of time if he were free after serving his UT sentence and being aquitted of Caryn Cambell’s murder, that he would kill again and this time he’d be on the public radar.

  Those are my thoughts anyway.

• 362. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 29th, 2009 at 8:12 pm

  Yeah, and just think, Bundy would see Carol DaRonch in the Florida Court during the Chi Omega trial!

  I’m not aware that Colorado was NOT asking for the death penalty; indeed, Bundy, I believe, counted on them to go in that direction. But of course, my focus was on what happened, when did it happen, and why, so something of that nature could have raised its head, so to speak, but I kinda doubt it . Of course, Utah dropped the attempted murder charge that was originally part of the charge against him in the DaRonch case, so could this be what Rule is referring to?

  Also, all of the detectives from all of the states in which Bundy killed expected Bundy to murder again after his release from the Utah prison. That’s why they really wanted the murder charge to stick against Ted in Colorado.

  Now, I am going to reveal here something quite interesting that IS NOT IN THE BOOK. And because it’s not in the book, I will speak of it. I will never reveal my source, but it came from someone exceedingly close to the case in Florida, and he only told me after I agreed to turn off the tape recorder. So here it goes: He said that a particular branch of law enforcement within the state had determined, that should Bundy not be convicted in the trials that were, at that time, still in the future, they were going to take matters into their own hands. And after they had done so, they would contact him and say “We discovered a body along the road” and here it is. In other words, there was absolutely no chance Bundy would ever leave the state alive. I guess that’s just the way “they roll”. LOL!!!

• 363. Vidor  |  May 29th, 2009 at 8:37 pm

  “It’s nice of Vidor to allow Kevin to pitch in - it’s only his thread and his book!”

  It isn’t his thread, as he does not own executedtoday.com. And that was an invitation. Idiot.

• 364. Vidor  |  May 29th, 2009 at 8:38 pm

  Also, Carol DaRonch is not relevant, because the discussion, which you appear to not understand, was whether or not the prosecution in Colorado had enough evidence to get a conviction.

• 365. Vidor  |  May 29th, 2009 at 8:42 pm

  Kevin, pretty sure Ann Rule did say that the prosecution had decided to pass on the death penalty.

  I know it’s not really within the purview of your book as you describe it, but it’s interesting. I think it’s symptomatic of his increasing failure to be able to control himself, which of course reached its apex in Florida.

  Only a month until the book comes out! Looking forward to it!

• 366. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 29th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

  Yeah, maybe they did decide to pas on it, but Bundy made some statements to the judge that left little doubt that he felt going to El Paso was tantamount to receiving the death penalty, and he was very much distressed over it all.

  I’m certainly thinking that the 5th of July is the exact date of release ( what with so many sites advertising it ), and as such, I’m looking for the page proofs to arrive any day!

  Kevin

• 367. Jason Nelson  |  May 29th, 2009 at 9:31 pm

  Hey everyone
  I have ordered my copy of the book and i am really looking forward to reading it. As Vidor said, only a month until it gets released although with shipping mine may take a little longer to reach me.
  In relation to the point you made Kevin about the law enforcement and Bundy, what did you mean when you said they would ‘take matters into their own hands’? Were they going to harm Bundy or bring a case against him?
  Do you believe that Bundy actually had a chance of winning the Florida cases? I believe that he did so but for the fact that there were a number of issues between Bundy and his attorneys and also Bundy himself during the trial, this only hindered his chances of being found not guilty. It did strike me as odd at how he believed that trying to conduct his own defense and actively taking part in the trial would make him seem ‘normal’ and an unlikely person to have committed the crimes. Yet how a person can keep his composure with a possible death sentence looming over your head is a mystery! lol.

• 368. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 30th, 2009 at 12:23 am

  Hi Jason–

  They were going to kill Bundy. They could never admit to it, but they understood what Ted was, and so they were going to put a stop to him forever if the courts failed to do so. to tell you the truth, I’m a little surprised that this didn’t happen to Bundy long before Florida. Don’t hear me saying that I’m condoning such actions, ’cause I’m not. But it was so clear to so many different police departments and agencies just what they were dealing with, that in reviewing the entire case of Ted’s and how many folks were involved, I find it rather amazing Bundy survived it all! But there were (apparently) CERTAIN individuals in Florida who just couldn’t tolerate such a killer as Bundy to just walk away, and they had no intention of doing so. Humanly speaking, I do understand where they’re coming from, but where do we as a society stop such a thing after we get the ball rolling, as it were? Besides, there was plenty of evidence against him in the Lake City case, and the bit marks he left on the Levy girl at Chi Omega placed him at the scene without question. So Ted wasn’t going anywhere.

  Thanks for ordering the book!

  Kevin

• 369. Headsman  |  May 30th, 2009 at 2:41 am

  Ix-nay on the amewar-flay, please, Fiz and Vidor. This has been a great thread so far, and I’m glad it’s an open forum for Kevin and other Bundy experts and enthusiasts of both the professional and armchair varieties. It’ll be most worthwhile for all concerned if that’s how it remains.

• 370. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 30th, 2009 at 2:51 am

  Thanks Headsman! It’s better to be nice, as we’re all on the same “team” here. Let’s all continue discussing the case while having a good time with it!

  Kevin

• 371. george mcfadden  |  May 30th, 2009 at 4:18 pm

  Hey guys,
  Just to add to the discussion on Colorado.Judge Lohr ruled the death penalty statute unconstitutional so the state wouldnt be able to seek death sentence in the Campbell case.And,incidently,it was Ted himself who pushed for the change of venue,though it was against the advice of his attorneys and he had expected,were it to be granted, a city like Denver.

• 372. Fiz  |  May 30th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

  Out of respect for you and Kevin, Jason, I apologise. However I don’t take it kindly to being called an idiot. I have every single published book on the Bundy case and have read all of them several times.

• 373. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 30th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

  Hi Ted–

  Yes, Ted did do it to himself! I have Mike Fisher’s “take” on it, as he was in court that day. It’s both funny and accurate how Mike describes what happened as Bundy begins to see what his request has created. Of course, that wasn’t the first time Lohr had ruled in Bundy’s favor; and it was probably the only time Ted was sorry for “winning” before the judge!

• 374. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 30th, 2009 at 6:36 pm

  George–

  Sorry about that! The above answer was for you!

• 375. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 30th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

  Fiz–

  No need to say you’re sorry. Let’s all move forward. After all, we all have a commonality of interest in Bundy, what made him a monster, how he escaped justice for so long, etc. And its okay to disagree. Everything is cool. (Am I dating myself with that expression?)

• 376. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 30th, 2009 at 6:49 pm

  Vidor–

  If you saw my post for Fiz, let me say the same thing goes for you.
  Let us move forward, and enjoy the benefits of our Round-Table-Discussion. It should become even more interesting in the days ahead.

• 377. george mcfadden  |  May 30th, 2009 at 10:04 pm

  Hello,everyone
  One of the more interesting of Ted’s variety of confessions has to be his nocturnal conversations with the Florida police(specifically chapman/bodiford/patchen).In some ways these can be explained by deep depression following recapture.But in many respects they only exemplify Bundy at his most infernal and self defeating.These “sessions”helped Bundy not at all,at least in any constructive,rational sense.But they left the detectives in no doubt that they had their Chi Omega killer.And he said some pretty bizarre things on those nights.”You gentleman knew youwere dealing with a pretty strange creature.And you’ve known it for days”Really,who says things like that under the circumstances,except Ted Bundy? he was obviously eating all this up,regardless of the consequences.They were all HIScaptives ,enthralled ,as it were by his sheer awfullness.Ted loved playing these games ,and would play them again and again in the years ahead.Check out the “Killer next door ” for the most detailed account of these particular discussions.

• 378. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 31st, 2009 at 12:49 am

  Yes, Bundy’s foot-in-mouth problem is a recurring theme in the book, as it speaks (no pun intended!) of Ted’s dual personality when it comes to the crimes he’s involved with. One of the more enlightening aspects of Ted’s Florida court time, was the hiring of Dr. Emanuel Tanay to help in whatever insanity defense Mike Minerva might want to launch. Dr. Tanay’s ability to “read” Theodore Bundy (and as such, give a coherent reason for why he did these things ) was, and is, quite fascinating, and I have included a good deal of his reportage in the book.

• 379. george mcfadden  |  May 31st, 2009 at 3:11 am

  I do believe that upon his Utah arrest,Bundy’s career ,as it were essentially came to an end.Even had he been acquitted in Colorado,I think they would have built a case against him in any one of a half dozen juristications.Just to keep him behind bars.Remember,he was sentenced 1-15 in the DaRonch case.Given his reputation,i dont think there would be any expectation of parole in his case.Do you think Fisher would have ever given up on making a case against”theodore”?Or Keppel,Thompson,et,al?
  In this light Bundys desire to escape makes perfect sense,though his subsequent actions,should he want to remain free,do not.in any event Bundy understood that they understood what manner creature they had caught.One way or the other they werent lettin go.Hence,ted escapes in Colorado

• 380. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 31st, 2009 at 3:40 am

  Yes, Utah is where the world first got their look at the real Ted Bundy. And things would never be the same for “Theodore” after this unmasking, for once Fisher knew Ted was Caryn’s killer, he was not going to let go of the case no matter what.

  Of course, when the events of Utah became known in Seattle, the investigators in that state knew Ted was their guy, but proving it was another matter altogether. And I’m not sure they would ever be able to bring a really strong case against Ted due to an overwhelming lack of evidence.

  As far as Thompson, he did an excellent job on Ted, and Bundy knew it. As you know, the DA dropped the attempted murder charge to the DaRonch abduction, as they believed it wouldn’t stick down the road. But Thompson, and indeed, all the investigators, fully understood that Ms. DaRonch would have absolutely been killed had Bundy secured her in his car. But proving that in court, of course, was not going to be easy.

  And yes, Ted Bundy was a man clearly in decline after Colorado.

• 381. Richard A. Duffus  |  May 31st, 2009 at 10:54 am

  Kevin, you wrote in 369 (see also 363) that “They were going to kill Bundy. They could never admit to it, but they understood what Ted was, and so they were going to put a stop to him forever if the courts failed to do so.”

  I wonder if they would have felt that way if Bundy had killed prostitutes or gays. Don’t forget it was their bretheren law enforcement officers who facilited Dahmer’s murder of Konerak Sinthasomphone and then drove away laughing at the poor kid!

• 382. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 31st, 2009 at 1:03 pm

  You know, Richard, police want to solve crimes, and especially homicides. And when it came to Bundy, he was a strange breed indeed. In his case, he was capturing and killing women and young girls who were not, in the vernacular of cop-talk, high-risk. So, whoever told my source that they were going to take care of him, made the determination to stop the killing one way or another. And to be honest, I can’t imagine these folks not wanting to do the same thing with whomever they had, if in fact they were murdering gays or prostitutes. True, prostitutes are considered high risk, but homicide detectives want to stop these murders as well, and if they “knew” that a certain person was killing them, then yes, it could happen the exact same way as with Ted.

  Of course, gays are not considered high risk, any more than anyone else. And I would say the same thing would apply here; if, that is, the contemplating officers didn’t let their personal hang-ups (if they have any) get in the way. And so, for the most part, I believe they would deal with a killer of gays the same way. After all, it’s stopping a killer of human beings, and I think most cops would feel that way.

  I will tell you an interesting story: A friend of mine was a cop in Florida in the 1970’s and early 1980’s, and part of that time was spent as a homicide detective. Now, I’ve been friends with him for about 25 years, and he told me the story of these two (perhaps three) detectives who were killed one day making a routine stop at an apartment. Well, the chase was soon on for this killer, and they knew he was in a certain portion of the city near the ocean front. Luckily, they caught this guy walking along the beach, having ditched his clothes and his weapon (he was wearing a bathing suit), and they killed him before the “brass” had time to arrive on the scene (they were almost at the location when they killed him, and the cops at the scene cheered that it was over before the Big Boys arrived!). I’m saying this to show how police can sometimes go outside the law to handle a problem. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying it exists, and they’re more than willing to do it if the situation (in their minds) calls for it. One thing I do know, this killer will never kill again.

  BTW: My friend was not personally involved in this incident, as I believe he arrived on the scene after the guy was killed.

• 383. Jason Nelson  |  May 31st, 2009 at 3:18 pm

  It was clear that by the time Florida had a general idea of the type of person Bundy was, they could in no way release him onto the streets as a free man because more young girls and women would become victims, one way or another. So in one way, the law agencies had the right intentions in wanting to silence Bundy if he were found not guilty in florida. Yet it shows that law enforcement are willing to take steps beyond the law to make sure that once killers such as Bundy are under their radar, they must be stopped otherwise their will be more deaths that follow.
  I was looking for the book ‘Killer next door’ on amazon.com and there are copies selling for as low as $0.01. lol. Since i am from the UK, i would need to pay shipping costs so i just ordered one from here. Good price even if the book is used in some ways.
  With reference to the report you mentioned Kevin in 379 which was compiled by Emanuel Tanay concerning Bundy’s competence, would you believe that it is an accurate account of the type of personality Bundy was? i believe in Polly Nelsons book, she mentioned that it entertained the idea that Bundy suffered a mental illness which we have discussed before. This, i believe, is a way of rationalising why Bundy chose to kill because based on his discussions with Bill Hagmaier, he simply chose to kill because he simply enjoyed it. Do you believe that he possibly suffered from a mental disorder coupled with his behavioural issues which contributed to making him want to kill?

• 384. Fiz  |  May 31st, 2009 at 6:06 pm

  That’s good value! I am also from the UK, and it cost me $50 +p+p for Polly Nelson’s book!

• 385. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 31st, 2009 at 6:18 pm

  Jason–

  Keep in mind, the person or persons who decided to do Bundy in, as they say, could never have spoken of it outside of the circle who knew what was going on. It wasn’t an entire department who was willing to kill Ted, but a select few who wanted to stop him.

  I will answer the other questions later, as my wife is telling me to hurry so we can leave, LOL!! I’ll see everyone later this evening.

• 386. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  May 31st, 2009 at 8:31 pm

  I’m back!

  Okay. As to Bundy’s mental status, I would say this: Ted was not insane, not in the legal sense, at least not here in the United States. However, I do not think it’s possible for Bundy to not have a severe mental disorder of some type, otherwise he couldn’t have committed some of the acts he perpetrated against women, both alive and dead. It is, as you know, totally unnatural for someone to want to have sex with a cold severed human head. As such, I would say Ted was very much insane, or mad, but not in the legal sense, for he was able to plan his crimes, hold down jobs, and conduct normal inter-personal relationships whenever the need would arise. So, was Ted evil? Yes, most certainly! Was he having problems upstairs (his mind)? Yes, indeed he was! A strange person to be sure.

• 387. Jason Nelson  |  June 1st, 2009 at 1:22 pm

  Fiz
  When did you order the Polly Nelson book? I ordered mine about a month ago for like $21.11 (just over 10 pounds) which included postage and packaging and it was also used. I have just ordered the Killer Next Door book which overall cost me about £7.00 overall. There are some good deals for books on Bundy except for the Phantom Prince which is selling for like $150.00!!

• 388. Jason Nelson  |  June 1st, 2009 at 1:28 pm

  Kevin
  Lets say if Bundy actually beat the two Florida cases, would it have been practical for those individuals within the law enforcement to end Bundy’s life? Bearing in mind, that once Bundy was captured, he was still a wanted man in Colorado and other states where he had killed so it is possible that they would of extradited him back to those jurisdictions to stand trial for those murders.

• 389. Fiz  |  June 1st, 2009 at 3:01 pm

  Jason, it must be several years ago now.Last millenium, anyway! I also have “The Phantom Prince” which a t.c bookseller held for me as I’d asked her to let me know if she ever found one, and it cost me £35 about 15 years ago. All my t.c books are for my kids to sell to any crime bookseller when I’m dead!

• 390. Fiz  |  June 1st, 2009 at 3:03 pm

  I also meant to say that mine is hardback and first ediition, Jason. I had noticed the price had dropped and I wonder if there was a second printing, or a paperback edition?

• 391. Vidor  |  June 1st, 2009 at 5:13 pm

  Bundy wasn’t going to “go free” after he was arrested in Florida. If he had beaten the rap on the murder charges, Florida still had him dead to rights on grand theft auto, larceny, and credit card fraud. Colorado, of course, had indicted him for murder. If he had won an acquittal on that charge, Colorado had a slam-dunk conviction on unlawful flight from imprisonment, breaking and entering, larceny, and grand theft auto. Then there was Utah, which had the right to keep Ted in prison until 1991, and surely not only would not have granted him parole before then but would have added time to his sentence due to unlawful flight from imprisonment (two counts!).

  That was what I was getting at above. If Ted had just sat tight, he might have won an acquittal in Colorado. Then, eventually, he would have been paroled in Utah.

  What they couldn’t have done, probably, was bring a case against him for murder anywhere else. Look at Washington state. Absolutely nothing to link him to seven of the eight known murders, no evidence except the eyewitnesses that saw him with Janice Ott, and none of them even saw Ott get into his car. Bob Keppel’s alternate history scenario turns on the premise that they would have gotten a warrant and searched his apartment BEFORE he’d gotten warning and been able to clean out his house and car.

  For the Utah murders–a hair that matched Melissa Smith. Eyewitnesses placing him at the Kent disappearance, but no one who saw him in the company of Debby Kent, and no body. For the Colorado murders apart from Campbell: zero.

  He never would have been charged with another murder. And if he’d won acquittal in the Campbell trial, without attempting to escape, he’d have walked free.

• 392. Vidor  |  June 1st, 2009 at 5:19 pm

  On another topic, having read the Liz Kloepfer book, I would advise not to pay big money for it. Most of the interesting parts were dealt with in the more interesting Bundy bios. And there weren’t any pictures except for a couple of snapshots on the back dust jacket. I got a copy from the Los Angeles County Public Library system.

  Polly Nelson’s book, OTOH, is absolutely worth it.

• 393. Vidor  |  June 1st, 2009 at 6:54 pm

  And on that same topic, I finally got around to ordering “The Killer Next Door”–found it on abebooks.com for $1. Also paid $1 for a 1991 edition of “The Only Living Witness” which is supposed to have at least some of the illustrations from the original hardback as well as the 1989 update.

• 394. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 1st, 2009 at 7:01 pm

  Hi Jason–

  When my source gave me this info. I thought the same thing: Bundy wasn’t going anywhere, as Colorado and Utah had dealings with him. I also felt it was a bit odd that some folks (maybe only one guy, I don’t know) suggested they do this to Bundy, as it’s outside of what law enforcement is supposed to be about. And I’m certain my source didn’t agree with it, he was just passing off that tiny bit of information after I made the off-handed comment (rather jokingly) that I was surprised somebody hadn’t taken him out. That’s when he told me about it. And let’s all hope that it was just an idle boast from a somewhat frustrated member of what we call here in the States the-thin-blue-line. And I still believe Bundy would have been convicted in the Caryn Campbell murder.

• 395. Jason Nelson  |  June 1st, 2009 at 7:19 pm

  Vidor
  Your right about the Liz Kendall book. I do not own a copy and do not plan to as it is quite pricey and based on the reviews i have read on the book, there is nothing new that the other Bundy books do not contain.
  I have recently finished reading Polly Nelsons book and it provides an interesting account of Bundy’s last years as well as his early years via the court transcript on his past. I am not sure if you have discussed this before Kevin but do you look into Bundys Death Row years?
  I would like to share an old thread discussion about Bundy which took place a couple of years ago where there is a poster on there who claims to have worked as a prison guard at the FSP at the same time when Bundy was incarcarated there and he talks about his encounters with Bundy. He seems to be honest but you never know. his name is king cobraman and he talks about his dealings on page 2. There is enough material there to leave you reading for hours but here it is: -
  http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.php?showtopic=483&st=0

• 396. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 1st, 2009 at 7:28 pm

  Hello Vidor, Fiz and all–

  Yes, Bundy was looking at years behind bars for the thefts in Florida alone. Without question, he would have been the “guest” of several states until he was perhaps an old man, LOL!

  Speaking of Bundy books: I believe I mentioned in an above post that I obtained my copy of The Killer Next Door for only a dollar US and shipping back in 2006. I also picked up a copy of The Phantom Prince in a used bookstore here in Louisville for 6
  dollars, I believe, just the year before. Sad to say, you can’t find it for that price now, but I still keep my eyes open at all small used book stores!

  While we’re on the subject of The Phantom Prince, isn’t that an interesting picture on the back cover of Ted, leaping into the air, with the back-drop of an isolated and rural woods behind him? That, of course, was an environment he loved, and I believe, once the killing started, Bundy would NEVER associate the woods with anything else other than murder. As such, the woods became very special to him, for it was the place where he did so many of the things he loved; a place where he would create the memories he’d he’d enjoy reliving for the rest of his life.

• 397. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 1st, 2009 at 7:44 pm

  Jason–

  Yes, I’m fairly familiar with Bundy’s death row years, as it pertains to his work with death row attorneys; his work with Dr. Ron Holmes (the criminology professor from Louisville); Ted’s relationship with Hagmaier; and of course, his end of life confessions to the various detectives. But as to the many interactions Bundy had with other DR inmates, no not a great deal, as it didn’t fit with what I was doing with the book. And most of what I use from this period I weave into the book at the appropriate places, so that nothing of importance is left out of the book.

• 398. Jason Nelson  |  June 3rd, 2009 at 1:19 pm

  It looks like we are definately in for a treat with your new book. I am looking forward to recieving it within the next month!

  Jason

• 399. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 3rd, 2009 at 3:32 pm

  Thanks, Jason! And just think, I’ll be able to speak freely about all the new stuff after the release of the book, which will in turn, spark additional questions as to how all this “discovery” happened in the first place, ha, ha!!!

• 400. george mcfadden  |  June 5th, 2009 at 12:00 am

  Hey guys-
  First off,thank you Jason for the link.Pretty interesting.Got me to thinking.There was a lot of debate about Anne Marie Burr.But even if Ted didnt commit the crime,he certainly would have been aware of it.Especially,given his close proximity to the event.Here was a kid who studied everything he could get his hands on about the Boston Strangler while in his teens.The Burr crime may have acted as a similar accelerant to his morbid fantasy life

• 401. Jason Nelson  |  June 5th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

  George -
  I am really on the fence when it comes to the murder of Anne Marie Burr. Given Ted’s long career in murder, i cant help but think whether it was practical for Ted to actually kidnap and murder Anne Marie Burr. It is possible that by the time Ted turned 14-15, he did develop odd thinking patterns and maybe toyed with the idea of harming women but i am undecided on whether Ted would of actually had the ‘balls’ to pull it off.
  Kevin, do you discuss the Anne Marie Burr murder in your book at all? (sorry if you have already answered this question before).

• 402. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 5th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

  At 400 plus Q & A’s, I can’t remember how much we’ve talked about Burr, LOL!!! But yes, it is at least possible he did kill her, and yes, I have information on her killing in either the preface or introduction. I will say this: When I learned of Dr. Holmes dealings with Bundy, and in particular the conversation he had with Ted concerning the Burr killing, it got me to leaning in the direction that he did in fact kill her, as surprising as that sounds. At this point we’ll never know for sure (I guess) but the Dr. Holmes info certainly has that Ring-of-truth to it, as far as I’m concerned.

  An update on the the release date for the book: I emailed the development editor, and she said the July 5, 2009 date being posted on the various internet sites is an estimate. That is, it might be out at that time, but it could also be a little further down the road. Anyway, the editing and correcting is complete, and they’re working on the design of the book, (probably the front and back covers, etc) and the page proofs should follow soon after this. I will let everyone know when this occurs, and publication will be on the heels of this, as it were.

• 403. Claire  |  June 5th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

  Liz’s book has just rocketed in price on Amazon. I got mine last year and I thought I was paying a hefty £35 but to get it in the UK with shipping, £100 upwards. I thought Liz’s account was very interesting, as she certainly had a very different perspective than anyone else. I was amazed at how much she was involved with WA and UT police. I knew she’d tipped them off but I never knew how much she felt like he was the killer. I did feel let down though at the size of the book. 100 and something pages and a massive price tag. I expected a little bit more.

  Have you had any imput Kevin into the photo’s, design, layout etc?

  There will alawys be a question mark mark over Ann Marie Burr but I think most people are of the consensus that Bundy did not murder her. In my mind I think it very unlikely. He didn’t drive at that time and would not be that familiar with the Cascade Mountains or the like for dumping grounds. The fact her body was never found indicates either burial or a the woods etc. and so I believe another person was responsible. There have been a few killers in WA during that period of time.

• 404. Jason Nelson  |  June 5th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

  Hi Claire.
  Since i have not read Liz’s book ‘The Phantom Prince’, would you know if there is any information in that book which is not contained in the other books on Bundy? I ve wanted to read the book for some time but understandably i was not willing to pay £100 + for a book. I would of thought that Liz Kendalls book would of been the best book on Bundy since she would be able to tell the story of Bundy on a personal level which other writers would not be able to do.

• 405. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 5th, 2009 at 9:11 pm

  Claire and Jason

  I supplied the publisher with 30 photos, and, per their request, have given them the page numbers where to place them; plus, I wrote the captions for the pictures. At McFarland’s, it is the author’s responsibility to locate the photos, and this only makes sense, as we writers are the best judge of what pictures need to be located, etc. However, most writers wouldn’t know a great deal about layout, design, and what makes the book appealing visually when it’s ready to be sold, but the folks at the publishing houses do. So all this stuff is left up to them.

  Ann Marie Burr: Sure, Ted may not have killed her, but we must be careful in assuming that he couldn’t have killed her, due to how extremely odd it would be for a 14 year old boy without a car to do such a thing. Remember, as an adult, he committed the unbelievably shocking abduction and murder of Lynda Healy. I mean, who comes into a house of sleeping coeds, snatches one, and oh yes, makes the bed before leaving while also gathering up some of her clothes and a backpack? It doesn’t get much stranger than that. And as you know, there were other, equally strange murders he pulled off; sometimes in front of hundreds, or even thousands of people. Did her kill Ann Marie Burr? I don’t know. Could he have killed her? Yes, I believe so.

  The Phantom Prince: What can I say? It’s a very good and unique book, and as students of the case, I recommend that everyone read it if at all possible. Perhaps a library has a copy near you, or maybe you’ll find one, Jason, at a small bookstore at a reasonable price. Who knows? But it’s a very good read from a very unique perspective, and I quote her a number of times in my book.

• 406. Ted Montgomery  |  June 6th, 2009 at 8:56 am

  Hi Kevin and everyone,

  I’m not a huge fan of “The Phantom Prince.” It’s thin in both length and incisive information. Understandably, a lot of it is about the tug and pull between Liz and Bundy regarding their future, and she spends a lot of ink lamenting her alcohol problems. Readers of the book get virtually no new information about the murders, as Liz really wasn’t privy to that part of Bundy’s life. It’s more of a chronicle of their ill-fated relationship than anything else.
  I think the best Bundy book by a long shot is “The Only Living Witness,” and then as a companion piece, “Conversations with a Killer.” These books had the benefit of having Bundy’s pseudo-participation and his somewhat skewed perspective on the crimes. Plus, Michaud is the best writer of the bunch (Michaud wrote the book and Aynesworth did most of the reporting for it.)
  I find the “The Killer Next Door” to be pretty lightweight. Because it was the first of the bunch, it suffers from a bit of shoddy reporting (they attribute several extra murders to Bundy without any solid proof - Sandra Weaver, for example).
  Polly Nelson’s book is just awful, in my view. She seemed in awe of Bundy, if not in love with him, and that’s not a healthy perspective from which to write an objective book about a serial killer.
  Just my two cents…

• 407. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 6th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

  Hi Ted and all!

  What I like about the Kendall book is simple: No other person had a relationship with Bundy quite like Liz. As such, you get glimpses of Bundy that you might not otherwise ever see. For example, when Ted learns Liz has been to a particular city park with Tina after work, he chides her on the dangers of doing such things alone; the point being, of course, that there are people LIKE HIM out there. And really, the book is full of many little things that actually add to the over-all picture of Bundy during that time. And frankly, if you look at the story she tells about him momentarily attacking her while they traveled down the Yakima, and other important asides, the book becomes rather indispensable if we want a complete picture of Theodore Bundy. At least, that’s been my take on it.

  Of course, the M&A books are both unique and extremely important contributions to the story. Without question, they will be around, I believe, for as long as people are interested in the case.

  I’m a little surprised, Ted, that you didn’t like The Killer Next Door. True, they point to some murders that Ted didn’t commit, but you can find that today too. After all, Ted killed far more than he admitted to, and even at the end, he had no intention of revealing everything. But all in all, I believe Winn and Merrill did an excellent job of researching their subject, and their prose is descriptive, well-formed, and excellent. But again, that’s just my own personal “take” on things.

• 408. ted montgomery  |  June 6th, 2009 at 2:26 pm

  Kevin, you make some excellent points, as usual. The Killer Next Door is obviously well-written, and there are quotes from lots of different individuals, but the authors - through absolutely no fault of their own - didn’t have the benefit of retrospect and reflection because I believe the book was published very soon after the Leach trial. And obviously, a lot happened from 1980 to 1989.
  After years of reading about the Bundy case, and talking to some of the individuals who worked on it, some things seem clear to me. Let me list some of my observations and maybe it will spark more great conversation on this outstanding thread.
  1. Bundy killed way more than 35 girls/women, 35 seeming to be the number usually associated with him. I believe he started in 1969; there were missing and murdered women in both Philadelphia and New Jersey at times when he was in those locales, and the circumstances of the murders had Bundy’s stamp all over them. Also, there are still more than 20 unsolved and very cold cases in the Tacoma, Olympia and Seattle areas from the years 1970-73. Obviously, Bundy didn’t commit them all, but it seems likely he was culpable in a handful of those unsolved homicides. Bundy supposedly admitted to one murder in Sonoma County, California. This can never be proven, of course, but there was one site in that area where the police found the remains of four girls - bludgeoned and strangled - and they were similar enough to the Washington murders that investigators in both states swapped information on the cases. I guess what I’m trying to say is that for every murder that Bundy did admit, I think it’s a good bet that there were five more. By the way, Liz Kendall recounts Bundy taking her to Vancouver for a romantic weekend at one point in their relationship; there was a string of murders in Vancouver in 1973 and 1974 that were very similar in nature to Bundy’s crimes, but they were never solved. Obviously, Bundy isn’t responsible for every unsolved murder in the northwest during those years, but it’s not a stretch of the imagination to think that he might have been responsible for some of them.
  2. I truly believe that there are countless women out there today who encountered Bundy and escaped who probably still don’t realize it was Bundy who had them in his grasp. He would have almost had to have been unsuccessful in his abduction attempts some of the time. There is one documentary out there that shows some pictures of Bundy that aren’t the usual ones we’ve all seen countless times, and in one photo Bundy appears to have a nasty, long scratch on the left side of his face. I’m guessing Liz didn’t inflict that wound. It would be interesting to try to catalogue all the “near-misses” and use that to further track his travels and activities.
  3. I also believe that somewhere there still exists some tangible proof of Bundy’s crimes: a cache of clothing, wallets, purses and perhaps photos of the victims. For killers like Bundy, it’s exceedingly important that they relive the murder over and over again, so trophies and “souvenirs” become almost an essential part of the crime itself. He admitted he destroyed a box of Polaroids of his victims once he came under suspicion, but he almost certainly had stashes of these things in multiple locations. At least, that’s what I think.

  Anyway, I have lots of opinions, and some of them may be completely off the wall. That’s what’s so fun about this discussion!
  Kevin, I have several friends who are planning to purchase your book, and I do have a review lined up. I’m doing my small part from out here in Michigan to make sure your book is the success I know it deserves to be.
  Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings!
  Take care,
  Ted

• 409. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 6th, 2009 at 3:37 pm

  You know, Ted, I like the way you think! We are alike in as much as we want ALL THE ANSWERS, LOL!! For those of us (and I’m including everybody who continually comes back to this site) who have read all the previous Bundy books, and have sought out the answers to these murders whenever possible, the desire to find out more of the missing pieces of the puzzle, if you will, becomes very important. I believe I mentioned before how I had to obtain literally thousands of papers connected to the case, and how each one had to be read (numerous times, for some) just to gain the entire “picture”, so to speak? Well, in this process, I intentionally obtained information on missing and murdered women not directly connected (that we know of) to Bundy, just so I could mull them over, and compare each case with the MO of Theodore’s; and always with an eye towards gaining any evidence which might link him to it. And you know, just gazing at these young women, many of whom are still listed as “missing” but in truth are long dead, I really began to understand (because Bundy couldn’t be responsible for all of them) what a serious problem is “out there” concerning the killing of young females. And sadly, the removal of Ted (and others like him) from the earth hasn’t changed things.

  A few points” Yes, I too believe Bundy most likely killed for the first time in 1969. I base this on what he told Dr. Norman towards the end. But outside of a brief mention of it in the book, I leave it alone. Besides, Ted’s launch into full-time murder in Jan. of ‘74 was the real starting point for him in regards to completely leaving one life and entering another.

  The Killer Next Door: Yes, they were able to “run” with that quite early in the game, weren’t they? Still, for what they had to go with, they did an exceptional job (in my opinion) and the quality of writing is superb, in my view. And they are certainly
  not in the same category of SOME of the writers out there today who believe they have to churn-out something right away. These guys were really good journalists who knew how to research, get to the right people, and get the story in print. To me, it’s a fantastic piece of work on the case.

  Your opinions: Your opinions aren’t off-the-wall; I find them highly entertaining!

  My book: First, thanks for “pushing” it, and secondly, try not to tear me “a new one” during the review, LOL!! All jokes aside, will it be online, in actual ink, and can you send me a copy?

  You know, I am starting to feel like I “know” the regulars at this site, and wouldn’t it be great if one day we could all meet? Anyway, before I turn sappy, I’ll sign off for now.

  See ya

  Kevin

• 410. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 6th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

  Ted,

  I forgot to mention Bundy’s souvenirs: Yes, don’t you know it must have nearly killed him to have had to destroy those pictures after Thompson searched his apartment? What those pictures must have meant to the sick fiend! And of course, I mention the woman’s belt that was found inside of Ted’s murder kit, and can be seen in the picture above. So yes, there has to be items floating around belonging to his victims, and somebody may still have Janice Ott’s bike, etc.

• 411. Ted Montgomery  |  June 6th, 2009 at 6:45 pm

  Kevin, I’m quite certain that your book will be excellent and that the review I write will reflect that. No worries there. It will appear in the Detroit News, a really fine newspaper. I will of course send you a link to it. It should appear in the print edition, which means that it will also live on their Web site.
  I’m interested in the Ronald Holmes info. Bundy swore that he never spoke with him about specific crimes, and that he also never “speculated” about the killer. Yet, I seem to recall that Holmes once claimed that he felt that Bundy murdered more than 300 women, That number seems rather preposterous. Do you have any insights about Holmes’ dealings with Bundy?
  As always, thank you, Kevin.
  Ted

• 412. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 6th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

  Ted,

  Let me tell you what Bob Keppel once told me concerning Holmes and Bundy: Keppel mentioned once that he believed that Ted had originally planned to make his “confessions” to him (Holmes) and if they wouldn’t have had a falling-out, that he (Bob) may never have played the part that he did. So Holmes was close with Ted, and I believe Bundy respected him because of his education and experience. And before the falling out between the two, Holmes and another fellow (a person I’m friends with) were supposed to revisit Ted on death row and do a filmed interview.

  On a side note: Dr. Holmes is not an easy guy to meet, or get to know, and he doesn’t always respond to telephone calls if he doesn’t already know you. Years ago I twice contacted his office but never received a return call. However, I ran into him one day after I wrote the Bundy article for “Snitch” and I introduced myself to him. He’d read the article, and I spoke of our mutual friend Jim Massie, so these things “broke” the ice, so to speak. After this, it was easy to contact him, and he was kind enough to allow me to interview him for the book, and wish me well on it. I like Holmes a lot, and he did have a lot of dealings with Bundy.

  Now, Bundy did speak to Holmes about particular murders (Ann Marie Burr, etc) but only in the third-person. Still, what Bundy said about Burr is very revealing, and it was later published in an article in the Tacoma News Tribune. I, of course, include this in the book.

  I don’t think Holmes believes Ted killed 300, but as to the exact number he thinks he murdered, I don’t know.

  If I didn’t answer everything now, I will later, as I must leave the house now. The wife, you know. LOL!!!

• 413. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 6th, 2009 at 7:29 pm

  Of course Bundy wouldn’t have destroyed the souvenirs. He’d worked hard to get it right and didn’t want to forget. It was a stupid hiding place so he found a better one. If he could hide bodies so well they haven’t been found in 30 years he could certainly hide these, probably just across the state line in Idaho. They’d be waiting for him to juice up on when he got out of prison if he was convicted in the DaRonch case. And of course he would have said he destroyed them. He’d be stupid to say anything else. Everyone knows Ted’s a liar but everybody believes that one.

• 414. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 6th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

  That’s an interesting thought, Richard. Of course, it was towards the end of his life when Bundy finally mentioned the pictures he had kept of his victims, and he said at that time of admission, that he destroyed them. And to tell you the truth, I took his statement at face-value as it made good sense to me. Still does, actually, and here’s why: By the time Detective Thompson searched his place, I believe Bundy knew exactly where things were going, and he probably felt that such things as photos were far to incriminating to keep lest they be discovered. But who knows, perhaps he buried them in a sealed jar somewhere, just waiting to be discovered by some kid at some point in the future, LOL!

• 415. Topelius  |  June 7th, 2009 at 10:01 am

  I just finished Liz Kendall`s book. Well written and informative, to say atleast.

  I was wondering if Diane Edwards ever shared any interesting insights about her relationship with Ted that could indicate Ted`s future “career” as a killer. Weird acting in the bedroom etc.

  Correct me if I`m wrong but 1971 or 1972 Ted`s friend from politics noticed handcuffs in Tèd`s VW`s trunk. Is there any reason to give a serious look at that? What I mean is could that indicate that he had already started killing women by that time.

• 416. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 7th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

  I don’t know what Diane Edwards has spoken of concerning any strange behavior Ted may have exhibited. I never sought her out for the book, but I doubt if Bundy was too strange around her, as he was very good at concealing his true identity.

  Having handcuffs in the car may raise an eyebrow or two, but it doesn’t mean a whole lot in my view. If you see someone with cuffs, a shovel, plastic bags, rope, duct tape, etc, yeah, society may just have a potential problem on its hands. But cuffs alone? I don’t think so. Of course, I cringe at the site of those bozos who I see occasionally with a pair of handcuffs draped over their rear view mirror; the intention being, of course, that they want the passing cars to notice them. I guess they’re trying to play cops, but they look like a bunch of losers to me.

• 417. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 7th, 2009 at 3:20 pm

  I forgot to say that in Bundy’s case, the cuffs DO mean something: That is, everything he collected that could enable him to tie up or otherwise incapacitate another person, he had it for that one reason only. However, there is the chance he wasn’t killing in 1972 or 1973. Perhaps he killed before this period (maybe 1969), and had a cooling off period which lasted a number of years before his full time launch into murder in 1974. But even if he wasn’t killing in 72 or 73, he had the cuffs with evil intent in mind. That’s just the way Bundy viewed such things.

• 418. Claire  |  June 7th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

  Hi Jason,

  About the Phantom Prince I found it informative as in that it looks at Ted Bundy on a personal level. His favourite beer was Mickey’s Big Mouth etc. Those are the unsual things in the book that give it that difference to the others.

  Liz’s accounts of their dates are very interesting, she paints a romantic, kindly Ted who goes out of his way, at first, to help her and her daughter.

  You get the letters printed between the two from after the DaRonch case and they reveal a lot about his personality. There is one letter sent to her that shows his emotional instabilty while in Prison in Utah. She had gone over to vistit him and they have a very emotional hour, crying etc and he asks her to come back the next day before she leaves for Seattle and she decides not to. The letter she recieves back at home show’s he was actually either really weak or very manipulating. He really pulled on her heart strings saying how hurt he was she didn’t turn up.

  The DaRonch case is mentioned heavily because Liz lived through that with him and there is a mention of a 24 year old woman visting Ted in Utah who Liz suspects is a lover. This is not Carole Boone.

  Also the police survellience by Keppel when he was out on bail is mentioned and how she beileved he only wanted her around him so he would look normal.

  The end of the book basically reads like love letters. Carole Boone is mentioned in a letter to Liz as a friend who visited which signifies Carole was in Ted’s life from Utah onwards.

  The most newest part, for me anyway, was the conversation he had with Liz when he was arrested in Pensacola. I knew, I think Michaud mentions this, that he had practically confessed to her but obviuosly you get a full account of that conversation. The book ends on that conversation because for Liz it all ended in Feb 1978. So no death row information or trial information either.

  It’s a shame it wasn’t an ebook. I’m not sure about copyright issues but I’d scan a few pages for you if it was above board. I’m not sure I’d pay £100 now because I’m saving (damn credit crunch) but I know at some stage if I ever sell it, it’s an investment. The pictures appear on the back of the dust jacket just so you know.

  The one good thing is you get a feel of how he operated in normal everyday activities like cooking and shopping. His mask of sanity shall we say. If I had money to burn, which sadly I don’t I’d pay it because it’s one view that no other person has of Ted Bundy.

  With regards to those polariods I read somewhere in a thread on a Ted Bundy page (it was maintained by someone called professional widow) that someone had proof (I don’t now how) that he had hidden them all over the place. In about 3 different states. The page has since closed down but I found it very interesting.

  I’ve not read that link posted by you Jason but I think it might have contained this. Some one who said he worked at FSP remembers Ted scrunching up his towel or flannel in his cell, just continually doing it in frustration. Pent up frustration he gathered because he was not free and murdering young women. Is this something anybody has read about?

• 419. Jason Nelson  |  June 7th, 2009 at 7:00 pm

  Hello everyone -
  I have been gone for two days and i wasnt expecting the huge response to this discussion. As always, its been a pleasure reading everyones input on the Bundy discussion. With the publication of Kevin’s new book approaching, i would imagine the post numbers would reach 800+!!
  Thank you Claire for the info on the Liz Kendall book. I have tried to gather as much information as i can from the book (which has not been much) since like yourself, i am weary of parting with £100 only for a book. I think i will take Kevin’s advice and try and locate the book in a local bookstore. If it is ok, i would appreciate if you could scan some pages of the Liz Kendall book. But if copyright issues would prevent this, then its ok.
  You are correct with the information you stated that is contained in the link i provided above. Apparently one of the posters on the board was a prison guard who had actually worked at FSP whilst Bundy was incarcarated. He did describe that episode where Bundy would lie on his top bunkbed and hold onto his flannel whilst facing down with an ‘intense look’ in his eyes. That was one of many stories he told but i am not sure whether he is telling the truth or not.

• 420. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 7th, 2009 at 7:08 pm

  It is my understanding that Bundy first admitted to the stash of pictures to one of his doctors (Lewis?) at the end. Those pictures, Bundy said, were together, in a box, I believe, in the utility room in the basement of 565 First Avenue. He said he destroyed them after Thompson searched his upstairs apartment, so I don’t know where they got this that he had pictures in 3 states.

  I once asked Thompson about the photos , and all he said was that he’d heard the story of what Ted said, but he knew nothing about them. I don’t think Thompson much cares for rumors, and as Ted was long dead when I asked him, it made little difference if it was true or not. Still, I believe Bundy was telling the truth, and that the incriminating evidence was there the entire time. And it’s terrible they missed it!

• 421. george mcfadden  |  June 7th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

  Hey Kevin,
  I have a few questions.Iwas wondering about the nature of the falling out between Ted and Dr Holmes.Were they really planning a filmed interview? IT seems that would have turned out quite differently than the Dobson interview.For when was it planned?
  Also,did keppel ever suspect the Bundy lakehouse as a possible crime scene?Do you think Ted ever brought a victim there?
  Thanx again

• 422. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 7th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

  If it were true, it would make a lot of difference to the families. Law enforcement doesn’t get it. In a case like this, just because the perpetrator has been caught and punished doesn’t mean their work is done.

• 423. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 7th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

  Hi George,

  Dr. Holmes told me during the interview that Ted wanted him to purchase a PC for Carol Boone’s son, but he told him he couldn’t do that. That, he said, irritated Ted. Someone close to Holmes said he (Holmes) had written an article about Bundy for an FBI publication, send it to Ted, and Ted got mad about that. And finally, I think Bob Keppel told me something about why this happened, but I can’t remember, and I didn’t write it down ’cause it didn’t pertain to the book.

  Yes, they were planning a filmed interview, and I’ll call someone later this evening and find out the exact for you. Ted had already agreed to it, but canceled it after the falling out.

  I don’t remember if Bob said anything about the Bundy cabin, but I’m convinced Ted took Brenda Ball there, and may have spirited others away to that cabin as well. I believe it’s located in Gig Harbor, and I know one of the girls who escaped Ted at CWSC was from Gig Harbor too.

  I’ll get back to you this evening with the exact date for the never-to-be film of Bundy.

• 424. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 7th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

  Hi George–

  My friend said he believes they were to do the filmed interview sometime in 1987. This makes sense as the Tacoma News Tribune article detailing the first interview Holmes conducted with Bundy was published that same year.

• 425. Vidor  |  June 8th, 2009 at 12:36 am

  A PC? In 1987? That would have been very expensive.

  Regarding the handcuffs, M&A mention one of Bundy’s Republican Party friends spotting the cuffs in the back of his VW in 1973.

  I have to take the minority view on the Kendall book–she still seemed to be carrying something of a torch for him. The last line is something to the effect of “the greatest tragedy was that this gifted man was driven to kill” or something. No, Liz, the greatest tragedy is the three dozen dead young girls. One wonders how long it would have taken for Bundy to get caught if he’d never gone to Utah; the strong impression from Kloepfer’s book is that her rage at Bundy for abandoning her in Seattle was part of what drove her to go to the police. How long could he have gone on killing if he’d been content to stay in Washington pursuing his Republican Party work?

  I truly believe that there are countless women out there today who encountered Bundy and escaped who probably still don’t realize it was Bundy who had them in his grasp

  Stands to reason, doesn’t it? We know he tried and failed with five women besides Ott and Naslund at Lake Sammamish. Two different women before Susan Rancourt. Another co-ed before Georgeann Hawkins. The drama teacher and another student at the Kent disappearance. Surely there were others that were never found by police.

• 426. Vidor  |  June 8th, 2009 at 1:14 am

  Hmm, I tried an HTML quote tag but apparently it didn’t work…the above paragraph starting “I truly believe that…” was a quote from a previous post…

• 427. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 8th, 2009 at 3:05 am

  The cost of the PC in ‘87? A good point, Vidor. Perhaps that’s why Holmes said no.

  I believe it was Ross Davis who spotted the cuffs in Bundy’s VW .

  Yes, there are many women, from all of the states where Bundy killed, who had a brush with death, and most of them didn’t even know it. Bundy was a hunter. And like many things in life, it was a numbers game; that is, he wasn’t going to nab everybody, and he understood this, and I make reference to these things throughout my book.

• 428. Courtney  |  June 9th, 2009 at 5:43 am

  Wow, what a great thread! I’ve read every single one of them and there is so much information. Kevin you wouldn’t happen to be doing a book signing in Oklahoma would you? That’d be awesome. I’d love to meet you and talk to you about Ted. Can’t wait for the book still!

  I’m curious if they ever found the place Ted took Naslund and Ott from Lake Sammamish? It couldn’t have been to far away since he got one and then came back for another one within a limited time-span. Plus, it had to be a good place where the first girl he tied up would be out of ear-shot from anyone close by since (you’d think) she’d be screaming in terror. Surely they found the crime scene (perhaps a building)??

  Yes, I think their is still evidence out there that Ted hid. But which state would he hide it in or would their be more than a couple? I’d assume he’d taken all his Washington possessions with him when he moved to Utah, but…who knows? I wish someone would randomly happen upon-them, lol

  I don’t know much about the Lake House. Was it never investigated for a potential crime scene for Ted’s murders? Surely it was…

  Thanks so much Kevin!

• 429. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 9th, 2009 at 9:46 am

  Hi Courtney!

  I would love to do a signing in Oklahoma, but we’ll have to see if that works out or not.

  You know, I can’t remember if the authorities ever found the exact location, but I think I remember Bundy alluding to (in the third-person, of course) the possibility of using a vacant cabin, or something of that nature. If this is the case, then perhaps it’s within, say, a 30 minute drive from Lake Sam, and that could cover a wide area indeed. If this is the case, it’s likely they never located it; or at least with any degree of certainty. So this aspect may remain a mystery. But who knows, the future may hold a surprise or two concerning Bundy and the murders!

  I would think the Bundy cabin in Gig Harbor has been searched extensively, but that is not something I focused upon for the book,; and I can’t recall seeing any investigative reports among the thousands of copies I have in my files, which pertain to a search of the property. But I can’t imagine it not being searched from top to bottom several times over.

  I hope you keep coming back, Courtney, as I think the activity here will continue for quite some time, and especially so after the book is released.

  Take care.

  Kevin

• 430. Fiz  |  June 9th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

  It wasn’t searched, Kevin. The Bundy’s denied permission.(A.R).

• 431. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 9th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

  Hi Fiz–

  That’s too bad. Still, it probably didn’t make a lot of difference, seeing that by the time the world realized Bundy was “the one”, the Bundy clan had probably inadvertently destroyed any available evidence simply by using it from time to time. And, of course, the axe was going to fall on Ted without any of this anyway, so it’s not that big a deal.

• 432. Claire  |  June 10th, 2009 at 7:23 pm

  I seem to rememeber in Liz’s book when she searched one of his appartments (I can’t remember which one) that he had a taped down box but she was too scared to open it and so she just took some cheque receipts cause he was due to walk through the door at any time. This was when she was looking for signs that he was the WA Ted killer.

  I wonder now if that box contained the photo’s. It certainly would have turned out very differently if that was the box and Liz had opened it. Imagine the horror of those photo’s.

• 433. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 10th, 2009 at 9:58 pm

  I believe that’s the box with the keys, if I’m mot mistaken. I do remember in police reports Liz telling of finding underwear belonging to women in his possession. So Ted was a collector to some degree. And yes, had Liz found pictures of even one of the missing women of Washington State, it would have been all over for Bundy at that time. You can’t get anything more incriminating than pictures of missing and or murdered women.

• 434. Lea Maxey  |  June 11th, 2009 at 12:19 am

  I may have missed this in some of the comments, but what kind of car was he driving in Louisville? I was the same age as Kimberly Leach when he drove through here and London is on I-75. A man in a white/cream colored car, as best I can remember, told me that my parents had sent him to pick me up. I was at a park near a small college. I truly believed him, but I wasn’t ready to go home, as my mother had told me I could stay until 5. The park was across the street from my friends house. He again repeated that my parents had sent him. I told him I was going to go call them to see if I could stay longer and he told me they would be mad. If I had been afraid of my parents I would have went with him. You just didn’t hear about things like that back then, not here at least. I saw him on the news when he was convicted in Florida and I could have sworn it was the same man. That may sound stupid but it’s the truth. Whoever it was who tried to pick me up did not have good intentions, and I never heard about any other kids being abducted or assaulted. I always figured it had to be someone passing through.

• 435. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 11th, 2009 at 12:38 am

  Hi Lea–

  When Bundy came through Louisville, he was driving a Japanese sedan, and I can’t (at the moment) remember what color it was, but I’m certain it wasn’t Ted and here’s why: Bundy was traveling I 65 south, which would have kept him on course for Nashville as the next major city, and then on to Atlanta. It’s all a straight shot from Louisville, and it’s highly unlikely he was diverted by any type of confusion as the highway signs are clearly marked.

  However, there were (and are) lots of bad folks trying to pick up women and young girls, and Theodore Bundy was but one of many fiends out there at that time.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 436. Lea Maxey  |  June 11th, 2009 at 1:41 am

  I 65 south to I 75 is the shortest distance to Florida, I know because I lived in Louisville for a time and we always went I-65 south to I 75 south, it is a straight shot. To go through Nashville from Louisville would take him several hours out of his way. That doesn’t make sense. It is literally almost a direct line from Louisville to Florida if you take I 65 which actually just “turns into” I75, because to continue on I65 you actually have to turn. Does that make any sense to you? Check it out on the map, Louisville to Nashville to Florida make no sense to me.

• 437. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 11th, 2009 at 1:58 am

  He didn’t drive to Florida. He drove to Atlanta, and ditched the car in the city of Atlanta. He then took a bus to Tallahassee. If you map quest it, it will take you from Louisville to Nashville to Atlanta. That’s the shortest route.

  I also drove that route on a fairly regular basis from 1974 through 1985.

• 438. Lea Maxey  |  June 11th, 2009 at 2:11 am

  I mapquested ann arbor to atlanta, and it gives I-75 as the shortest route. I-75 also goes directly through Atlanta.

• 439. Lea Maxey  |  June 11th, 2009 at 2:16 am

  Forgot to add, according to yahoo maps and mapquest, the I-65 route would take him through alabama, not georgia.

• 440. Lea Maxey  |  June 11th, 2009 at 2:52 am

  Also, I mapquested Nashville to Atlanta and it shows he would have to drive 133.9 miles to get back over to I-75, adding more than an hour to his trip than if he took I-65 to I-75 in the first place.

• 441. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 11th, 2009 at 3:31 am

  Lea,

  Go back and read my exchange of comments with Richard Duffus, starting, I believe, with #22 or 23. This should explain things.

  Bundy came through Louisville, continued on 65 to Nashville, took 24 to Chattanooga, and took 75 to Atlanta. From Louisville, KY, this is the quickest route, and apparently the one Bundy took to Atlanta. It was Bundy’s confusion in Ann Arbor which ultimately placed him on 65 south in the first place. But for whatever reason it happened, Bundy was here in Louisville and drove south as I’ve indicated, ditching the car in Atlanta prior to purchasing a bus ticket for Tallahassee.

  As what’s his name often said in the show “Dragnet” : “Just the facts, mam” Well, these are the facts.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 442. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 11th, 2009 at 11:06 am

  Let’s say you’re correct that his confusion in Ann Arbor got him onto I-65 south. He must have left Ann Arbor going west on I-94 instead of south on I-75. That’s way lost. But he could have then taken I-69 south to I-65 south on into Louisville.

  But what’s to say he didn’t continue on from there to, say, Pensacola rather than Atlanta? You have good reason to believe he was in Louisville. Is there a similar reason to believe he was in Atlanta?

• 443. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 11th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

  I’m not familiar with the freeway system in Ann Arbor, so the I-69 south is perhaps what he did.

  I’m not sure if the authorities found evidence of Bundy being in Atlanta or not (a bus ticket, etc), but it’s what Ted told them, and really, what would be the reason to lie about it? What would it matter if he kept the sedan until he made it to Tallahassee, or took the bus? He arrived in the city of Tallahassee, his destination, and the exact minute, or the manner in which he arrived (bus or stolen car) is immaterial. Therefore (because in the end, it doesn’t matter) we should actually BELIEVE Ted in this regard.

  Good to hear from you, Richard.

  Kevin

• 444. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 11th, 2009 at 9:15 pm

  It wouldn’t be smart to leave the car in or near Tallahassee where he was staying. What it it were found?

  As for a reason to lie, what if he did something on the way that he didn’t want us to know about? He’d misdirect us by pointing to somewhere he hadn’t been. So his route through Atlanta is either truth or misdirection. How can one tell?

• 445. Vidor  |  June 11th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

  I don’t see any reason to doubt Bundy’s story that he drove to Atlanta, abandoned the car, and took the bus to Tallahassee. As Kevin says, there’s no reason to doubt him. There’s no realistic scenario where he would have had reason to lie. Even if he did kill a girl on the way, what of it? Are there any reports of a missing girl along the route from Ann Arbor, MI to Tallahassee? They never even found the car, so even if there had been such a report, which there wasn’t, and even if there had been a body, which there wasn’t, there would have been no way to tie Ted to any crime.

  ****I’m curious if they ever found the place Ted took Naslund and Ott from Lake Sammamish? It couldn’t have been to far away since he got one and then came back for another one within a limited time-span. Plus, it had to be a good place where the first girl he tied up would be out of ear-shot from anyone close by since (you’d think) she’d be screaming in terror. Surely they found the crime scene (perhaps a building)****

  We talked about this upthread, and this is why I don’t believe the story Ted told about leaving Janice Ott alive while he went back for Denise Naslund. Where could he have hidden her alive and been secure that she wouldn’t escape or no one would find her while he was gone? Hard to believe. Much easier to believe that he killed Ott before doubling back to snatch Naslund. As for the place where he took them, well, probably to Issaquah, exactly where they were found. Probably whacked Ott with a crowbar inside the car as he attempted to do with Carol DaRonch, took her to Issaquah, killed her and dumped her, and repeated the process with Naslund.

• 446. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 11th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

  If Bundy would have committed any murders in states not associated with any of the killings, I’m sure he would have mentioned it at the end, when he was doing just about everything he could to buy himself additional time. This he didn’t do. So to speculate on things which pop into our minds will never lead us to concrete answers; it will, however, breed only more speculation. And to this, there is no end. Believe me, I personally know people who desperately want to believe they’ve run into Bundy, and when I tell them that’s an impossibility (and give them the reasons for said impossibility) they don’t want to believe it. And these folks search for reasons to continue this line of thinking. But those searching out the truth must allow for change, and must adapt to the reality they discover along the way.

  So I guess what I’m saying is this: Again, Bundy said certain things concerning his journey from Ann Arbor to Atlanta, and then his bus ride to Tallahassee. He revealed to Dr. Holmes that he stopped in Louisville. He said he ditched the stolen sedan in Atlanta, and rode the bus to Florida’s capital city. He didn’t murder anyone else along the way, or it would surely have come out later. At this point an astute researcher and writer will determine that such information can be taken at the proverbial face-value, and continue on the road of discovering the truth. In doing so, an accurate picture will emerge as to what happened, and hopefully (and this was so in my case) new and important information will be added to the story along the way. However, if I were to run down every speculative trail in my research, without any basis in fact, I no doubt would still be struggling to wrap it all up, and only God knows what the book would actually look like upon completion.

  And finally: I couldn’t care less if Theodore walked on his hands all the way to Tallahassee, but unless, and until, I receive concrete info. that he did, I’m sticking to that which I KNOW to be true.

• 447. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 11th, 2009 at 10:10 pm

  Vidor–

  You know one thing I found interesting during my time writing the book? I kept comparing my view of what an abductor would do, with what Bundy actually did in committing the murders, and I was astounded. For example, if we consider the abduction of Debra Kent from Viewmont High during the play that Nov. evening, I kept thinking how foolish it was to expose himself to so many people just to abduct a girl! I mean, he could have spent the night elsewhere, and perhaps picked up a hitchhiker or someone walking down the street. But no, he chose to be seen by hundreds of people. Very odd.

  Take the abduction of Lynda Healy. To enter a house and do what he did, with another coed sleeping on the other side of a thin plywood wall, and believe that he could get away with it? What kind of a mind thinks this way? We (those thinking normally) wouldn’t believe something like that could be accomplished. But he did it.

  As such, what he told Bill Hagmaier may indeed be true (I personally think it is), because Ted was so bold, I believe he may have even left Ott bound and gagged to a tree. For Ted Bundy, I don’t believe we can ever say “Oh, he wouldn’t have done that.”

• 448. Vidor  |  June 11th, 2009 at 10:13 pm

  And, FWIW, the entire mapquest result for a drive from Ann Arbor to Atlanta:

  Total Time: 12 hours 27 minutesTotal Distance: 770.38 miles
  A: Ann Arbor, MI 1: Start out going WEST on CATHERINE ST toward N 5TH AVE. 0.1 mi
  2: Turn LEFT onto N MAIN ST/US-23 BR. Continue to follow N MAIN ST. 2.0 mi
  3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto ANN ARBOR SALINE RD. 0.9 mi
  4: Merge onto I-94 E toward DETROIT. 4.3 mi
  5: Take the US-23 exit, EXIT 180 A-B, toward TOLEDO/FLINT. 0.2 mi
  6: Merge onto US-23 S via EXIT 180A toward TOLEDO (Crossing into OHIO). 51.7 mi
  7: Merge onto I-75 S via EXIT 1A toward DAYTON (Crossing into KENTUCKY). 211.3 mi
  8: Merge onto I-71 S via EXIT 173 toward LOUISVILLE. 76.8 mi
  9: Merge onto I-64 W via EXIT 1A toward ST. LOUIS. 1.5 mi
  10: Take the 3RD STREET/RIVER ROAD exit, EXIT 5B. 0.2 mi
  11: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto N 3RD ST. 0.3 mi
  12: Turn RIGHT onto W JEFFERSON ST. 0.2 mi
  13: End at Louisville, KY
  Estimated Time: 5 hours 47 minutesEstimated Distance: 349.64 miles

  B: Louisville, KY 1: Start out going WEST on W JEFFERSON ST toward S 6TH ST. 0.0 mi
  2: Turn LEFT onto S 6TH ST. 0.1 mi
  3: Turn LEFT onto W LIBERTY ST. 0.5 mi
  4: Turn RIGHT onto S 1ST ST. 0.0 mi
  5: Merge onto I-65 S via the ramp on the LEFT toward NASHVILLE (Crossing into TENNESSEE). 171.2 mi
  6: Merge onto I-24 E via EXIT 86 on the LEFT toward I-40 E/CHATTANOOGA/KNOXVILLE. 4.8 mi
  7: Keep RIGHT to take I-24 E via EXIT 213A toward CHATTANOOGA (Passing through GEORGIA, then crossing into TENNESSEE). 133.9 mi
  8: Merge onto I-75 S via EXIT 185A toward ATLANTA (Crossing into GEORGIA). 109.4 mi
  9: Take the M L KING JR DR exit, EXIT 248A, toward STATE CAPITOL/TURNER FIELD. 0.3 mi
  10: Keep LEFT at the fork in the ramp. 0.1 mi
  11: Turn SLIGHT RIGHT onto MARTIN LUTHER KING JR DR SE. 0.2 mi
  12: Turn LEFT onto WASHINGTON ST SW. 0.1 mi
  13: Turn LEFT onto CAPITOL SQ SW. 0.1 mi
  14: Turn LEFT onto CAPITOL AVE SE/CAPITOL AVE SW. 0.0 mi
  15: End at Atlanta, GA
  Estimated Time: 6 hours 39 minutesEstimated Distance: 420.74 miles

  C: Atlanta, GA

• 449. Vidor  |  June 11th, 2009 at 10:18 pm

  ****At this point an astute researcher and writer will determine that such information can be taken at the proverbial face-value, and continue on the road of discovering the truth.****

  Agreed. If you go down that other road you can’t ever be certain of anything.

  Louisville from the map above looks like an entirely logical place to stop for the night. Big city with plenty of fast food places and cheap motels.

• 450. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 11th, 2009 at 10:24 pm

  Thanks, Vidor!

  BTW: The place where Bundy had breakfast in Louisville was on W. Jefferson St. So after a quick meal, he was back on the road headed south.

• 451. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 11th, 2009 at 10:32 pm

  Yeah, downtown Louisville has all kinds of hotels and motels. However, Bundy came through the city in the morning, and perhaps during the very early morning hours, and he really did want to get south as quickly as possible. As I recall, it was exceedingly cold during that time, and he was probably quite weary of the cold and was looking forward to warmer temperatures.

• 452. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 11th, 2009 at 11:20 pm

  I didn’t say he killed someone on the way.

• 453. Lea  |  June 12th, 2009 at 12:04 am

  Funny Vidor, I got completely different mapquest results. I’m not saying he did or didn’t do anything, but these are the directions:

  Hide/Show Route Directions from A to B:
  1: Start out going WEST on CATHERINE ST toward N 5TH AVE. 0.1 mi
  2: Turn LEFT onto N MAIN ST/US-23 BR. Continue to follow N MAIN ST. 2.0 mi
  3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto ANN ARBOR SALINE RD.
  0.9 mi
  4: Merge onto I-94 E toward DETROIT. 4.3 mi
  5: Take the US-23 exit, EXIT 180 A-B, toward TOLEDO/FLINT. 0.2 mi
  6: Merge onto US-23 S via EXIT 180A toward TOLEDO (Crossing into OHIO). 51.7 mi
  7: Merge onto I-75 S via EXIT 1A toward DAYTON (Passing through KENTUCKY, then crossing into TENNESSEE).
  459.0 mi
  8: Keep LEFT to take I-75 S via EXIT 368 toward CHATTANOOGA (Crossing into GEORGIA).
  192.9 mi
  9: Take the M L KING JR DR exit, EXIT 248A, toward STATE CAPITOL/TURNER FIELD.
  0.3 mi
  10: Keep LEFT at the fork in the ramp.
  0.1 mi
  11: Turn SLIGHT RIGHT onto MARTIN LUTHER KING JR DR SE. 0.2 mi
  12: Turn LEFT onto WASHINGTON ST SW.
  0.1 mi
  13: Turn LEFT onto CAPITOL SQ SW.
  0.1 mi
  14: Turn LEFT onto CAPITOL AVE SE/CAPITOL AVE SW.
  0.0 mi
  15: End at Atlanta, GA

  Estimated Time: 11 hours 29 minutes Estimated Distance: 711.88 miles

  Roughly an hour and 70 miles shorter.

  If he had planned to drive to Florida from Ann Arbor, the I-65 route would have taken him straight there through Louisville and through Alabama. However, if he wanted to go through Atlanta, then once he got to Louisville the I65 to I75 route is the only one that makes any kind of sense to me. I’m not saying anybody is wrong and you obviously know way more about this than I do, but that’s what I got when I mapquested it.

• 454. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 12th, 2009 at 12:19 am

  Of course, Richard, I know you didn’t say that, but beyond murder and theft, what is left that Theodore had any interest in doing, and more appropriately, wouldn’t want us to “know about” as you stated in your previous post? Therefore, I assumed it was murder you were referring to in the above statement.

  But no matter. This is indeed a small issue, and it’s okay with me if folks want to believe he took another route, and for whatever reason. But as for me, I’ll be sticking with the available, and most certain evidence in the matter. And in the end, doing this makes the most sense to me, and is the only true route a non-fiction writer should ever travel.

• 455. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 12th, 2009 at 12:31 am

  Lea–

  Bundy evidently decided to follow the signs through the major cities, and for reasons he kept to himself (or perhaps, kept to himself) and maybe this came about through some type of logistical reasoning he was mulling over in his mind at the time. Who knows?

• 456. Vidor  |  June 12th, 2009 at 7:56 am

  I should have made clear above that the route I mapped out was in fact a three-stop Ann Arbor-Louisville-Atlanta route, based on what Bundy himself said. The direct Ann Arbor-Atlanta route is in fact shorter, going through Lexington and Knoxville instead of Louisville and Nashville.

• 457. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 12th, 2009 at 9:14 am

  So true. This whole thing stems from Bundy getting lost trying to leave Ann Arbor. His mapping, driving, and over-all sense of direction skills were sadly lacking.

• 458. Jason Nelson  |  June 12th, 2009 at 12:29 pm

  Hey everyone.
  I ve recently come back from a short holiday break and not surprisingly, this discussion has only become bigger. Its been interesting reading on Bundys route taken after he escaped jail, Lake Sam murders, Pictures of the victims etc. I am definately looking forward to reading about these and more in the new book.
  Kevin, it is my understanding that in your book, you are going to go through each of the murders that have been attributed to Ted, state how he committed them, the events leading up to it etc and this would all be based on the information you have gathered during the course of your research? Basically i was wondering if you would be able to provide a brief overview of what will be in your book. I am sorry if i am ‘jumping the gun’ lol but as you know, based on the popularity of this thread, there is a high amount of anticipation for the book and i cant wait to read it and discuss it with everyone here.
  Thanks in advance
  Jason

• 459. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 12th, 2009 at 1:19 pm

  Hi Jason,

  Yes, it’s an up-close-and-personal-look at the murders, to be sure. It was my intention as I began the book to not leave out any important details of the murders, and I believe I’ve accomplished that. Take, for example, the Caryn Campbell murder: Just in the brief discussions we’ve had here, new information has come forth that many or even most readers were unaware of; as in the name of Elizabeth Harter, or that Mike Fisher believes Ted kept the key to her room. Well, I truly believe that once readers finish that section of the book they’ll have a much better understanding of the Campbell murder and how Bundy pulled it off that they didn’t have prior to reading my book. And even this is not the “new stuff” I keep talking about. The book is exceedingly in-depth, well-documented, and has much new information on several of the murders, and this is why I was able to sell it so quickly. I have even had, in the last couple of months, been contacted by the senior acquisitions editor of another publishing house acknowledging how she wished she’d have moved sooner in regards to the Bundy book (I had sent her a book proposal the same time I mailed one to McFarland & Company). Well, this type of response happens for a reason.

  As to the new info., I can’t say very much even now. However, It was my aim to erase the “unknown” aspect of some of these murders, and I have done so. In some cases I’ve erased “gaps” in the record, and replaced it with his known activities, and all of it is documented. There will be descriptions of conversation between killer and victim that has never before been released; and no, I will not speak of it prior to publication. Many new things await the reader in my book, and I hope it will be considered the definitive work on the murders of Theodore Bundy for some time to come.

  And of course, it goes without saying, that it takes nothing away from the previous books by M&A, Larsen, etc. I’m just saying that without question, because of the research I’ve put into the book, I’ve broken new ground with a number of these murders. And because of the way I have written it, it should be a unique work that I hope will be well-received.

• 460. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 12th, 2009 at 7:04 pm

  When I asked “what if he did something on the way that he didn’t want us to know about?” I meant for you to think “murder.” I was testing a technique Bundy used from time to time with M&A. He would be deliberately ambiguous letting them think this when he really meant that. It works well. Hiding something incriminating would be something else he wouldn’t have wanted us to know about.

• 461. Ted Montgomery  |  June 12th, 2009 at 7:15 pm

  All,

  This thread is great. Kevin, you’ve given us all so much time and insight, far more than any of us could reasonably expect. I’ve really enjoyed reading the thoughts of all of your correspondents, and have been impressed at their keen inquisitiveness and their deep knowledge of the Bundy case. The Bundy story is such a tragedy, and I think the posters here have done a good job of keeping foremost in their minds the real victims in this story: The murdered women and girls and their families and friends. Bundy’s crimes scarred hundreds of people for life, and that is the saddest part of this story.
  Kevin, I will be in receipt of your book very soon, and plan to devote a lot of time to reading it. I typically read a book I plan to review twice in a short period of time, to make sure I properly absorb the nuances and tone of the entire book. I will share the eventual review with all on this thread, if that’s okay with you.
  In the meantime, let’s keep the compelling conversation going…we’re all learning a lot and deepening our collective understanding of the human condition, ugly though it may be at times. I cling to the idea that most of us are good, compassionate, caring people, and that notion has been borne out on this thread in spades. Congrats to all, but especially to you, Kevin, for your kindness, time and relentless pursuit of the truth. I think I speak for all of us when I tell you how much we appreciate the time you have given us.
  Regards,
  Ted

• 462. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 12th, 2009 at 8:41 pm

  Everything is cool, Richard. I always appreciate your comments!

• 463. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 12th, 2009 at 9:16 pm

  Ted–

  Thanks so much for the kind words. For a moment, I had to turn around and say: “Is he talking about me?” LOL!!! But all jokes aside, I must confess that what has happened at this site was beyond anything I expected. We are quickly approaching 500 comments, and really, I’m thinking we’ve just gotten started! Once the book is published, it will spark many new questions; questions I’ll be more than happy to answer. And I want everyone to know just how much I enjoy discussing this case with folks who are knowledgeable and keep me on my proverbial toes, so to speak.

  I know that I mentioned in a post above how nice it would be if at some point in the future we could all meet one another. Of course, I realize this may never happen, but it’s a good thought anyway, and who knows what the future holds, right?

  As to the victims of Theodore Bundy: Not a day goes by that I don’t think about them, and what they might be doing if they were with us today. Not a day goes by that I don’t think of Louise Bundy, and Ted’s brothers and sisters, as they are victims too. It is a terrible story indeed, but one worth remembering. For the more we as a society understand how these monsters think and act, the better are we in protecting ourselves from them. It is also important to remember the impact these murders had on the folks from the states where the killings occurred. Their particular “worlds” were, in a very real sense, changed forever, and it matters not if they personally encountered the fiend, as they were forced to live through the terrible ordeal. And so, yes, it is a sad story, but one, I believe worth remembering.

• 464. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 12th, 2009 at 9:27 pm

  Say, I hit the submit button accidentally, so I’ll finish what I was saying:

  So if the Headsman doesn’t mind, let’s keep this going for as long as an interest remains, and I’ll be more than happy to tag along too.

  And Ted, you may share the review of my book when it becomes available, and thanks for taking the time and effort it requires to give it what I know will be a proper going-over. And if you see something you don’t agree with, don’t hesitate to mention it.

  Thanks to all!

  Kevin

• 465. Jason Nelson  |  June 13th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

  I have to agree with Ted. Its not all the time that you have an author who dedicates their time and efforts to discussions on chosen topics. In saying that, i would like to show my gratitude for the information you have given us, which may not even be in the book.
  Thanks for the overview Kevin. I am definately looking forward to how Bundy pulled off some of his murders and the ‘ killer-victim’ conversations that have not been touched upon.

• 466. Juan Gonzales  |  June 13th, 2009 at 1:14 pm

  Hey Guys, check out http://www.tedbundy.biz
  Looks really interesting.

• 467. mark nader  |  June 13th, 2009 at 3:05 pm

  The Bundy cabin is actually close to Olympia and its on Silver Lake the grounds were searched but yes the Bundy’s did not grant permission. Much of what I have learned from a local official is they suspected the cabin was used by Ted.

  He also mentioned the photos were kept in the attic or a ceiling in the Salt Lake House.

  I am looking forward to he book and what new light has been uncovered.

  I live in Tacoma and actually very close to the Bundy family which ironically is just 1/3 mile from where Ann Marie burr disappeared. They lived in this house in the early 70’s but apparently lived further away when she disappeared.
  On a side note my uncle dated George Ann Hawkins in high school.

• 468. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 13th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

  Thanks, Jason! I appreciate the kind words. And I think you’ll be surprised at all the new information contained in the book.

  Kevin

• 469. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 13th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

  Thanks, Juan! I’ll check it out.

• 470. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 13th, 2009 at 3:42 pm

  Hi Mark–

  Thanks for the info. You’re certainly in the epicenter of where it all began.

  It was my understanding the photos were in the utility room in the basement, as Det. Thompson made a really good sweep of Bundy’s # 2 apartment on the second floor. And I’m thinking it might be in Polly Nelson’s book, but I could be mistaken.

  Yeah, George Ann Hawkins. I had a chance to speak with a good friend of her’s, and to this day, he has a tough time talking about what happened, and I can’t blame him at all. Such a terrible situation for the victims, their families, and all who knew them.

  Say, do you ever go by the Bundy home on Skyline Drive, or the Burr home? What’s going on with the rooming house Bundy stayed in for years in the U District? I hear it sometimes has tours, etc, is that true?

  Anyway, I hope you enjoy the book.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 471. mark nader  |  June 13th, 2009 at 7:50 pm

  i dont know the home on skyline, the one I know is off of North 20th. The Skyline House is the one he grew up in as a little boy as I understand. One of my close freinds went to hgih school with him as well at Wilson and knew him fairly well. He thinks about selling his year book.

  I dont know about tours of the rooming house. I know there was a murder tour and they prehaps drove by. Several years ago I drove around at night to all the addresses including Lynda Healy’s house from the rooming house and a buddy of mine was a Beta at the UW and we played hoops out in the alley where George Ann was leaving from that fateful night.

  My friend who investigated the cabin after the fact knows Ann really well along with Keppel. He had relayed a lot of the info about what Bundy had done and told Keppel that didnt end up in the book. I think most of it has come out now but he had relayed the photos being hidden and I thought he had said ceiling or attic but he heard second hand but he had been one that had searched the outside grounds of the cabin and they had found a meat cleaver.

  Anyhow I am posting under a psyedo have been fascinated since I was a kid as this hit so close to home. I did attend UPS and Ted’s mom retired from the school while I was there.

• 472. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 13th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

  Kevin, I join Ted and Jason in thanking you for taking the time to attend to this forum and for putting up with some of the nitpicking speculative comments. Ideas need to be tested.

  Anyway, I was wondering how well you think the criminal justice system represented the interests of the victims’ families in these cases. Include those for whom Bundy is only a suspect.

• 473. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 13th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

  Thanks, Mark, for all the information. In doing the research for the book, I made it to Utah, parts of Colorado, and Florida. I did not, however, have a chance to visit Washington State. So I ordered box after box of case files from the King County Archives, conducted interviews by phone, and consulted all the proper sources to be able to learn everything I needed to learn for the book. However, I really want to visit the area if at all possible in the next couple of years, as I want to see these sites close-up, so to speak, and photograph them as well. And because I haven’t seen them with my own eyes, I feel like I’m still in my researching/writing mode, LOL!

  Thanks again,

  Kevin

• 474. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 13th, 2009 at 10:49 pm

  Well, thank you, Richard, I appreciate the kind words.

  You know, the Bundy case was difficult one from a criminal justice position. On the one hand, Bundy admitted to killing 11 women in the state, and we know of 8 by name for a certainty. But Bundy was never convicted for any of these crimes, and due to the lack of real evidence, it might have been difficult for the state to obtain a conviction at all. Maybe they could have, we don’t know. Utah knows he killed up to 8 women in their state, but he was only convicted in the DaRonch case, so he “escaped” justice there too. And when they finally pulled the switch on Theodore for killing Kim Leach, they weren’t killing him for the Chi Omega murders!

  However, I have said all of that to say this: For what it is worth, when Ted was executed, everybody connected to the case could take a personal satisfaction that the monster was being killed for them. That is, everything he became, everything he was, and everything he did, was “paid for” at the same time. And in the end, this is probably the only solace they are going to have. In the end, the criminal justice system “worked” only because he was finally put to death. And any result other than that, in my opinion, would be less than justice. For any time a killer is left to live, and to eat, and to watch TV, and to see loved ones, etc, while their victims rot in the ground and their loved ones suffer incalculable grief, justice has not been served. I know this stance is not popular with everyone, but it’s been my view throughout my life that the greatest need for a death penalty is twofold: First, the killer will never kill again (not even in prison) and the families of those murdered most often find solace when the murderer has also tasted death.

  Anyway, that’s my take on things.

  Kevin

• 475. Vidor  |  June 14th, 2009 at 1:47 am

  I decided to splurge a dollar and get a 1991 copy of “The Only Living Witness”. Includes some pictures (the recent paperback that’s out in bookstores has none) and a few passages that apparently were excised from the later edition.

  Anyway, that’s not the point. I’m rereading the book, and I got to the “speculation” about Kathy Parks, and something occurred to me:

  How far can a 1968 VW Beetle go on a tank of gas? Google is telling me that the gas tank for that era of Beetle was 9.2 gallons. We know he drove Parks 260 miles. That comes out to a minimum fuel efficiency of 28.3 mpg to make that trip without stopping for gas. Google is less precise in determining the MPG for a ‘68 Bug but that seems to be near the top of the range.

  So here’s what I’m wondering. Bundy describes transporting Parks alive all the way back home. He wouldn’t have dared stop for gas with a live girl bound up in the back of his car, would he? Either he did, or he lied about driving her home alive while he dithered over killing her. It would be easy to throw a blanket over a dead girl to prevent her from being seen while he filled up.

• 476. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 3:30 am

  There is always the chance Bundy topped off his tank after arriving in Oregon. Who knows. But remember, Bundy was a strange creature, and almost impervious to the fear of getting caught. Hence we have him hauling Lynda Healy out through the basement door into a street that could at any time have young people walking past him. It was, after all, a university district, and as such, the nights would be busy at times with nocturnal college students roaming about. Yet Bundy wasn’t afraid to abduct a woman under such circumstances.

  And if one looks at Ted’s overall demeanor concerning his traveling about with dead or dying women in his car, or the keeping of heads in his apartment, or his bold move at Viewmont High School where he captured Debra Kent, I don’t believe there’s much of anything he wouldn’t do to commit murder.

• 477. Vidor  |  June 14th, 2009 at 11:42 am

  But what do you think? Did he really transport her alive back to Washington?

• 478. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

  Apparently so. Now, I guess the real question is, did he whack her in the head at some point prior to arriving back in WA, or did he just bind and gag her? But whatever he did, I do find it amazing that he took the time to go that far to obtain a victim just to bring her all the way back to Washington. I mean, he could have done his diabolical work in Oregon, yet he, for some unknown psychological reason, decided to add her to his ever-growing collection of remains in an environment he was comfortable with.
  The entire situation is classic Bundy.

• 479. Vidor  |  June 14th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

  Ha! I forgot that this very point was discussed in the DaRonch trial! Bundy said the VW got 28 mpg at “peak efficiency” but could be as low as 20. So he almost certainly would have had to stop for gas somewhere with a trussed-up Kathy Parks in the back. Bizarre.

• 480. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 1:59 pm

  Very bizarre. And in fact, once it was confirmed that Parks was among the other Washington victims, this only added to the public’s fear of what (yes, “what”, even more than who) they were dealing with. A real monster was on the prowl.

• 481. Jason Nelson  |  June 14th, 2009 at 2:08 pm

  I have sent an email to the author of the book Ted Bundy: Serial Killer which was advertised on the website tedbundy.biz posted above. I asked him/her to provide an overview on his book and posted up a link to this website so hopefully he/she will be posting here soon.

• 482. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

  Yeah, that’s the first I’ve heard about it. I know Bill Hagmaier told me a very long time age that some lady (I think she worked for a newspaper) had contacted him several times in the past, and was apparently writing a book about Ted, but I haven’t seen even one thing about the book on the internet. So perhaps it fizzled out, or maybe she’s still plugging away at it, but only time will tell.

• 483. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

  What the heck is a “time age”? Make that “time ago” LOL!

• 484. Courtney  |  June 14th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

  I would love to go and visit all the sites up in Washington as well! I’ve never seen them nor any in Utah or Florida for that matter. It would be so interesting.

  Kevin do you ever think Ted’s first girlfriend Stephanie will ever publish anything about their relationship and how she perceived him?

  Thanks again so much for all the time you’ve put into this forum.

• 485. Jason Nelson  |  June 14th, 2009 at 5:46 pm

  I was kind of surprised but yet could understand why Stephanie Brooks (Diane Edwards) did not release a book/documentary on her relationship with Ted Bundy. This may have been because she played a small but yet significant part in Bundy’s life and she probably didnt know about it up until he dumped her in 1973. Once that took place, it was clear that she did not want anything more to do with Bundy, whether it was because she was unhappy that he dumped her for for reasons more sinister. Yet it would of been very interesting to hear what Stephanie would have to say on Ted Bundy and possibly discuss any bizarre behaviour traits he may or may not have had. Kind of like how Liz Kendall was able to describe her fears and doubts about Bundy which gave the police a clue and possible insight into the monster who Bundy had become.

• 486. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 6:17 pm

  Hi Courtney–

  You know, many years have gone by, and Diane Edwards has chosen to remain silent on the subject, so I’m thinking she’ll continue to stay in the background, as they say. That’s my guess, anyway.

  And yes, there’s nothing quite like tramping over ground where something that holds your interest has occurred! When I was 17 years old (1972), I visited Normandy, and in the very early morning hours, was standing on Omaha Beach. The tide was fairly far out (not as far as when our guys hit the beach) and I walked all the way up the beach to the where the ground starts to ascend and will eventually lead one to the top of the hill where the Germans were well-entrenched. Given the distance, it was very easy to see why so many of our troops were killed before reaching this point. Anyway, being there created some memories that will stay with me all of my life. So yes, if the interest is there, do make the effort to visit these places. It will be well-worth your time.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 487. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 6:24 pm

  Hi Jason–

  I wonder if Diane Edwards knows we’re talking about her; that’s what I’m wondering, LOL!!!

  Who knows why Diane has been silent, but at least Liz Kendall didn’t remain so, and that’s a good thing!

  Kevin

• 488. Jason Nelson  |  June 14th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

  Kevin
  You never know. She could be lurking on this very webpage as we speak lol. So this is a message to you Diane, If you can see this, dont hesistate to come forward LOL.
  One thing that makes me believe that her story would be valuable was from Teds last interview with Polly Nelson and Dr Lewis. Although he did lie about ‘hearing voices’, i do believe there was some truth in what he said about Diane and how when he started killing, he would imagine it was her. Obviously overtime, this image of Diane evaporated and he was killing as a form of leisure. Maybe she picked up on some unusual habits Bundy had or even understood the devastation he suffered once they broke up the first time.

• 489. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

  Jason,

  I’m sure that if Diane Edwards came forward, she would have a story to tell, but it would be one of the behind-the-scenes-Ted, and could not be as in-depth as Kendall’s. After all, Liz got to see the darker side of Bundy, and Bundy would call her after committing murder. Still, it would be interesting to see her “take” on things, as she was close to Bundy in ways that could be revealing. Who knows, perhaps she’ll speak out one day, let’s not place our money on it, however, LOL!

  Kevin

• 490. mark nader  |  June 14th, 2009 at 7:25 pm

  if bundy first took Parks to his family cabin this would only have been 165 miles or required 6.5 gallons at 25 mpg. he could have secured her there and then refeuled.

  I am curious to know Kevin how much you will delve into what you were told about possible use of this cabin. I do know for a fact there was a good attempt to search it and for strong reason why they went there.

• 491. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 14th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

  Hi Mark,

  Of course, Bundy may be lying, but I think he mentioned to Michaud that he transported her to where she was found, and killed her soon after arriving there. Perhaps he did take her to the family cabin, and others as well. And perhaps he never wanted his family to know what diabolical things transpired at the happy-getaway. This is something we may never figure out.

  I haven’t read that portion of the manuscript in some time, but I think I mention the cabin once, just so the reader understands what Ted had available to him. I wouldn’t give it much page-time, one might say, due to our inability to know how much of a connection it plays in the story. Still, it’s something to think about.

• 492. george mcfadden  |  June 15th, 2009 at 2:52 am

  Hi guys-
  Just in case anyone is interested(ha ha) a new Ted Bundy documentary is premiering on the Learning Channel on Saturday at 7pm.Its part of TLC’s Serial series.I’ve seen prior installments and they have all been quite good.

• 493. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 15th, 2009 at 6:50 am

  Thanks, George! Say, do you happen to know if it’s an import from the UK? I have been wanting to take a look at the one that was produced over there a couple of years ago from a company called Red Back Films, or something very close to that name.

• 494. Jason Nelson  |  June 15th, 2009 at 8:11 pm

  Kevin -
  I think the documentary you are referring to is one called ‘ I survived Ted Bundy’ which contained a number of reconstructions of how Bundy committed his crimes. I believe i watched this documentary once before and based on my memory it was more of a tribute to the victims rather than Bundy. I believe this was shown 2004-2006 time and i am pretty sure its quite rare.
  I doubt that the Ted Bundy programme will be shown in the UK so any chance of recording it and uploading it on the net? If not it would be interesting to hear what yours and others reviews are of the programme

• 495. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 15th, 2009 at 9:39 pm

  Jason–

  The TLC Ted Bundy documentary set to start on Saturday, the 20th of June, gives a date of having been made in 2008. So I’m sure I haven’t seen this one, but I’ll comment on it after I view it this weekend. As far as anyone uploading it on the internet, I’m not sure if that’s possible due to US copyright laws; unless, of course, TLC allows it at their site. Even so, I would imagine one could purchase it from TLC or another vendor, making sure, of course, that you obtain the correct region DVD so it plays on machines in the UK.

  Yes, that “I survived Ted Bundy” would be the Red Back film I was referring to where I helped the producer locate some of the Utah authorities who were closely involved in the case. Perhaps it will come to the US at some point and I’ll have a chance to view it.

• 496. Mike  |  June 16th, 2009 at 10:02 pm

  Kevin,

  I….like many people that have posted have read every possible Ted Bundy book. I hope to publish a book myself on the Los Angeles Raiders. However, I find the investigations concering Bundy very interesting. I am looking forward to your book because this is a topic that needs more exploration. How many pages is your book? Perhaps I missed it but do you take the time to explore each murder in detail? Good luck in your book sales.

  Mike

• 497. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 16th, 2009 at 11:01 pm

  Hi Mike–

  The book is over 120,000 words. I haven’t received the page proofs yet, so I can’t give an exact number as to pages, but it should be a substantial read. And yes, I explore each murder in great detail, as well as his numerous failed attempts at abduction. I have also uncovered important, and previously unpublished information concerning several of these murders, and in fact, the entire book will provide the reader with new information throughout, as they follow Ted Bundy on his trail of murder.

  Good luck with the Raiders book! And remember, the biggest part of writing a book comes before the first page is written: That is, have a passion for what you write about; make the internal decision to follow it through to completion; and don’t allow yourself to become discouraged as you travel down your own literary road.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 498. debbie butler  |  June 18th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

  Hey, I can’t wait until your book comes out, Kevin. I try to read everything related to Ted. I recently bought Ted Bundy, which is found on http://www.tedbundy.biz. I really like the book, because it is so different from anything already out there.

• 499. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

  Thanks, Debbie! I believe you’ll find find my book quite different as well, and I hope you’ll let me know what you think if you have a chance to read it. And thanks for the info concerning the other Bundy book; I know someone else posted a thread to it several days ago.

  Kevin

• 500. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 1:43 pm

  500 comments!!! (I just wanted to say it, LOL!)

• 501. Jason Nelson  |  June 18th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

  Go Kevin!! lol
  Its not surprising that you have reached this amount of post counts since Ted Bundy is such a popular and interesting figure to study. I wouldnt be surprised if this thread reaches more than 700+ after your book would be released but we shall wait and see.
  There was one point i would like to make whiich may be obvious to some but since i am from the UK, i only just realised it a couple of days ago. It is in relation to the Lake Sammamish murders in which the debate is whether or not Bundy left Janice Ott alive whilst he kidnapped Denise Naslaud from the park. In his one of his last interviews with Bob Keppel, he gives a description of a crime scene (or dump site) in Issaquah. In this description he describes that there was an ‘abandoned cabin’ nearby which is possibly where he kept Janice Ott while he searched for his next victim. Did law enforcement ever go to this cabin and search it for any clues or evidence which may have been left by Ted?

• 502. Claire  |  June 18th, 2009 at 8:21 pm

  I believe “Surviving Ted Bundy” was once on sky 2 for the UK Viewers. I look out for it from time to time.

  Another one, perhaps not shown in the US is “the man who lives with monsters” about Robert Resseler that is on Crime and Investigation sometimes. Not very nice film footage in the docu of the Ted Bundy literally straight after the execution, eyes open and all. I wonder who allowed a video camera into the morgue (creepy, even given the publicity surrounding his execution). Robert Resseler gives some very insightful interviews in it though. His main killer that he studied was John Wayne Gacy, and I believe he got more out of Gacy than any other person.

  One other docu that is very interseting I have seen is Cold Blooded Killer’s about Michael Stones scale of evil. Number 17 for Ted Bundy out of 22. You think he’d be slightly higher. Anyone seen this? Very insightful about pyschopaths.

  Kevin, you are right. The victims famailies must always feel a great deal of loss despite their retribution against Ted Bundy. To lose someone close in that way must be the worst thing in the world. No goodbyes, no I love you’s, just gone. I always remember the old govenor of WA in the A&E biograpghy saying most people remember Ted Bundy I remember the young women. We all should.

• 503. Claire  |  June 18th, 2009 at 8:23 pm

  PS, 500 posts for now but I can’t imagine how many posts they’ll be on here once the book is out. Kevin you may have your work cut ot for you LOL.

• 504. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

  Hey, Jason–

  I’m not certain which cabins were searched (if they were searched), and where they were located, and I didn’t stumble across anything in my research of any importance with regards to this matter. But I am convinced he kept Ott alive until sometime after Naslund arrived, and I’m not sure which one died first. I believe this is true because of what he told Bill Hagmaier.

  Also, the girls disappeared in mid July, and the remains were not located until what, September 7th, or something close to this? So whatever cabin Bundy may have utilized for the murders (or at least the holding of the women, with the killing perhaps taking place at another location), if it was used again by other, unsuspecting folks, well, said evidence may be gone forever. Anyway, it’s just a thought.

  Say, just where in the UK do you live?; that is, a general geographic location will do if you’d rather not be specific.

  See ya,

  Kevin

• 505. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

  Claire–

  Yeah, as I said in an earlier post, not a day goes by that I don’t think about these young women. I was born in 1955, and some of these girls were too. I have had a lot of life since they died, and I’m still going strong, with children, and grandchildren now. They were robbed by a madman, and it isn’t fair, but it happened anyway. So very terrible. Having written this book, I believe they will be a “part” of me for the rest of my days.

  And yes, these posts may go on forever, LOL!!!

  Kevin

• 506. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 18th, 2009 at 9:02 pm

  Did anyone comment to you about the odd medallion Bundy was wearing just before his execution?

  Happy 500th!

• 507. mark nader  |  June 18th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

  the cabin which has been speculated about and was investiagted was many miles south near Eatonville at Silver Lake. LAw enforecement was convinced this was site was used by Bundy but most likely was not used in the Lake Sammamish murders. The site where Bundy went was 10 minutes from the park. I have driven it myself. The cabin his family had was nearly an hour south and would have been impossible to grab Ott, take her, secure her, drive back and abduct and take Naslund, take her, murder and abuse them both and be back in the Greenlake area in time for dinner.

  I think this summer I might take photographs off all the areas described and incorporate with a map. Ted’s stepfather passed away two years ago and his mother sold their family home last winter in a short sale. They lived in this home for nearly 40 years. I may photograph this as well and provide later in the summer.

• 508. Megan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 10:44 pm

  Hi Kevin,

  I’ve recently taken an interest in the Bundy case, so I’ll definitely look forward to reading your book! Of all of Ted’s murders, I was especially disturbed by the murder of Lynette Culver, the 12 year-old girl from Pocatello, Idaho. I read on various websites that Bundy confessed he took her to a room at a Holiday Inn, where he raped her and drowned her in the bathtub. Can you confirm if this is true? Apparently, this is mentioned in a certain edition of ‘The Only Living Witness’ but it is later omitted and Lynette is only briefly mentioned (I have the 1999 edition). So I will be especially interested in what you have to say about this case in your book. It seems hard to believe that he would have committed a murder in a hotel room, so I’m assuming Lynette was knocked unconscious, concealed in something, and then carried inside? Otherwise, how would he have been able to get her inside without people noticing? It also surprises me that he admitted to this murder, as she was the exact same age as Kimberly Leach, and we know how he always shied away from talking about child victims.

• 509. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 10:45 pm

  Thanks, Richard! No, I haven’t a clue about what Bundy was wearing prior to his execution. Give us the 411, will you?

• 510. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 18th, 2009 at 10:50 pm

  Bob Fitz’s comment in 275 that Bundy was killing his mother “or a facsimile therof” may have some substance. See page 10 of http://eprints.qut.edu.au/15917/8/08chapter7.pdf - the whole document starts at http://eprints.qut.edu.au/15917/

• 511. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 18th, 2009 at 11:14 pm

  I have reason to believe that, during the Dobson interview, Bundy would have been wearing a particular medallion - one of a pair. It was not unusual in and of itself but for him to be wearing it was a bit odd. Beyond that I don’t want to further describe it until/unless it can be further identified by someone.

  In attempting to verify my expectation, I checked the tape of the Dobson interview, and noticed on Bundy’s neck the chain securing the medallion whenever Ted tilted his head to his left. So I called Polly Nelson and asked if she’d gotten a close look at it. She said she’d seen it and when she asked him about it he was a bit evasive saying it was “half of something.” The Tanners also confirmed its presence but did not get a close look at it.

  I was hoping either Hagmaier or Keppel might have commented about it since they spent so much time with him. But you would probably have to had specifically asked them about it. I’ve been trying to contact them for years about this and a few other things, but they obviously don’t want to talk with me.

• 512. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 11:15 pm

  Hi Mark–

  I mentioned in a previous post that Bundy may have used a cabin within a 30 minute drive of the lake, as this would have been quite possible. But alas, we can only speculate on what Ted actually did, and we may never know the particulars of how he pulled this one off.

  I think it’s a great idea you have concerning the taking of photographs of all these sites. Man, if I were there, I’d ask to go on a ride-along, as they say! LOL!! There is nothing quite like walking the grounds where these types of things have occurred, as it gives you a sense of location that’s not easily obtained if one hasn’t been there. You can learn a great deal about any area through the study of really good maps and photographs, but being there is the icing on the cake, you might say. Anyway, I would love to see these pictures afterward, so let us know when you have them.

  Yeah, Bill Hagmaier told me awhile back that Mr.Bundy had passed away, and that Louise had not mailed him a Christmas card (as she’d been doing every year since Ted was executed) in some time.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 513. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 11:43 pm

  Hi Megan–

  Yes, I have a good deal of information on the Culver murder, and I think that whatever questions you have about this particular killing will be answered in-full, one might say, after you read my book. Unfortunately, I’m unable to share anything prior to publication.

  I believe the M&A book did touch on it in later additions, but only a sentence or two, as I recall. Speaking off the top of my head, as it were, I believe I have 6 to 8 pages on the case, and It will give the reader an all-around view of that day in Pocatello, Idaho.

  Take care,

  Kevin

• 514. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 18th, 2009 at 11:52 pm

  Richard–

  This is the first I’ve heard of it, and you’re right, I wouldn’t have bothered to ask Bill about it unless I knew about it. Too bad Nelson couldn’t shine any light on this for you. But now that you have me mildly interested (LOL!!) if you change your mind about sharing your thoughts here, don’t hesitate to pass your theory on to us!

  Kevin

• 515. Vidor  |  June 19th, 2009 at 5:29 am

  ****I believe the M&A book did touch on it in later additions, but only a sentence or two, as I recall.****

  I can answer this. The 1999 Authorlink edition of “The Only Living Witness”, which is the one you’ll find in bookstores these days, mentions Culver only briefly, noting that Bundy confessed to two Idaho murders, that of Culver and the unknown hitchhiker. Just recently I picked up a used paperback edition of TOLW from 1993, published by Signet, and that one had more to say about the Culver murder. That one was the one that specified that he lured Culver into the VW from the playground of her school, took her to a Holiday Inn where he had a room, raped her and drowned her. It does not go into further detail as to just how Bundy transported Culver from the school to the Holiday Inn.

  There are several differences between the two editions. The Signet paperback updated shortly after Bundy’s execution has a few pictures and has multiple passages that were edited out of the later Authorlink edition–probably there was some kind of word limit for Authorlink. The Signet edition also identifies Carol Valenzuela as one of Bundy’s victims and lists the spot where Valenzuela and an unidentified victim were found together as Bundy’s third dump site. The Authorlink version omits Valenzuela.

  I recommend the Signet paperback. Besides having more information than the Authorlink version, and having pictures, it doesn’t have any of the unfortunate typos that muck up the Authorlink version. It’s available at various used book sites.

  And if that isn’t enough nattering about editions–I stumbled across the original 1983 hardback of TOLW at a local library, and it had LOTS of great pictures. Crime scene diagrams, a picture of the catwalk at the Wildwood Inn where Bundy encountered Caryn Campbell, etc, etc. But of course that one wouldn’t have anything about his confessions and execution.

• 516. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 19th, 2009 at 7:20 am

  Thanks, Vidor. Very informative!

• 517. Jason Nelson  |  June 19th, 2009 at 9:12 am

  Hi Kevin
  Thanks for the information on the cabin. Once Bundy mentioned the abandoned cabin to Keppel and said it was in Issaquah, you could say a light bulb appeared above my head lol.
  Thanks Claire for the information on the various documentarys that are shown in the UK on Bundy. They sound very interesting and i will keep an eye out for them in the future. I remember watching another Ted Bundy documentary which has not been mentioned above simply titled ‘Serial Killers: Ted Bundy’ which had shown alot of various clips and interviews from the law enforcement involved in the case as well as more clips of Bundy at trial which are not widely avaliable. I will definately keep an eye out for these documentaries in the future and possibly try and record them since they do tend to be quite rare.
  With reference to the medallion, since it was one half of something, could it have been a gift from Carole or Diana Weiner since they were the two main women that Bundy was close to whilst he was on Death Row? Or it could of been from his mother? Just based on what Richard said above, it seems that the mediallion has some sort of significance for Bundy so it could of been given to him by either of these women.
  Btw, I live in Middlesex which is basically in North London which is where i have lived and also went to University. I ve always wanted to go and visit the US and in due time, hopefully that will be possible
  Many thanks everyone
  Jason

• 518. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 19th, 2009 at 9:13 am

  Vidor–

  Also, I too picked up an original ‘83 hardback, and it does have a good selection of photos not usually seen in other additions; including a pic of Mike Fisher. How about that photo of Theodore at the end of the photo section where he is standing behind a fence, chained and looking strangely at the camera? A good picture of Jerry Thompson, too.

  My book is also signed by Stephen Michaud with a little note written to a lady named Emily, and dated March 8, 1983. No doubt from a book signing somewhere in the Northwest, as it came from a bookstore in Washington State.

• 519. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 19th, 2009 at 9:21 am

  Hi Jason,

  I guess we will always be wondering about certain aspects of these cases as long as we live. As I said before, Bundy took a good deal of information with him, and I personally believe he was sorry to have to give up the info. he eventually confessed to at the end. He considered that information “his” and told authorities so in Florida.

  The medallion! Yes, I would like to know more, and perhaps we can convince Richard to fess up, LOL!!

• 520. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 19th, 2009 at 9:26 am

  Claire–

  I forgot to add last night, that I think I’ve seen the documentary Cold Blooded Killers, and perhaps another one, but they were a long time ago. I know there was one that had this really annoying sound of someone typing on a keyboard throughout the program as they wanted to highlight certain portions of the story. I could hardly stand it, LOL!

• 521. Jason Nelson  |  June 19th, 2009 at 11:09 am

  I ve found some good news for our UK posters. The documentary ‘Surviving Ted Bundy’ is going to be shown on Sky 3 on July 3rd 10.50 pm. Here is a brief descripton of the program…

  ‘Cheryl Thomas, Debbie Ciccarell and Diane McCain all had brushes with Ted Bundy, one of America’s most notorious serial killers. But for one reason or another he chose to spare them…’

  I will post my thoughts on the programme after it has aired. I wouldnt mind recording it and uploading it somehow for Kevin and the others to see but for legal/copyright reasons, i may not be able to do that.

• 522. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 19th, 2009 at 1:46 pm

  Thanks, Jason.

• 523. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 19th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

  Bundy could have gotten the medallion from anyone, Carole, Diana, Louise, or whoever. That’s why I need to identify it. These kinds of things are fairly common. I’m trying to find out if it’s the one he got from Bobby Lewis. If so, it’s significant.

• 524. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 19th, 2009 at 10:00 pm

  If he did, what would be the significance of Bundy having that item?

• 525. Courtney  |  June 19th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

  Hey Kevin, where can I find these pictures at that are rare photos? Especially the one with Ted standing behind a fence? I’d like to know more about the medallion as well….hmmm makes one wonder, doesn’t it?

• 526. Vidor  |  June 20th, 2009 at 1:16 am

  ****Hey Kevin, where can I find these pictures at that are rare photos? Especially the one with Ted standing behind a fence?****

  That was a reference to the original 1983 hardback edition of “The Only Living Witness”, which has an impressive photo section.

• 527. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 1:34 am

  Hi Courtney–

  I was referring to the photos included in the 1983 hardback/first run edition of The Only Living Witness. I’m not looking at the book at the moment, but some of these pictures might have been taken by the authors M&A (Mike Fisher, Jerry Thompson, Ted behind the fence?), and if this is so, it would explain why we haven’t seen them republished anywhere else. I just can’t say for sure.

  The medallion: To be honest, I’m not one to give a whole lot of credence to these things, so for me, I’m not going to read much into this, whatever it is. Still, it’s kinda fun to kick it around here if someone believes there’s something to it. Because in the end, there could be something odd attached to it that may have had some meaning to Bundy, as Ted was way beyond odd; and then again, maybe it was nothing all the time, and Bundy didn’t see it as anything more than a piece of jewelry. Who can say?

• 528. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 1:39 am

  Vidor, Courtney, and all…

  The photo used on the front cover says it all: Ted Bundy looks like a raving madman! What a shot that one is, and one that I’ve seen republished at other times.

• 529. george mcfadden  |  June 20th, 2009 at 4:44 am

  Hey guys(and gals)-
  Kevin,and this may seem very odd to ask,but in the very bizarre realm of the serial killer,doesnt Ted seem so very much more bizarre than the rest?One example for instance about how he fits both extremes.I have been,almost throughout my life,a student of history.WW2 in particular.David Van Drehle wrote an excellent study of Florida Death Row,entitled Among the Lowest of the Dead.A third of the book was devoted to Ted.The one thing that struck me was the reaction of the clergyman who took his last confession.He said he felt as if he was in the presence of an evil genius and compared T.B to Hitler in that sense
  Now,i have two points here.Any and all confessions that Ted Bundy gave were always given under duress or tainted by gamesmanship.He would never spoil them with remorse.When he rejected that plea bargain ,he ensured his own immortality in a way an anonoymous prisoner cannot.He was born for the Row.And the chair.
  Second,there is a tendency when studying despicable people to downplay their very real talents.(hitler,stalin,et al) M+A do this to acertain extent as did PollyNelson.Anyone however who knows Ted as we do knows he pulled his greatest con with the Dobsen interview.Many people bought the act.Afew hours later he snickered about burning up Donna Mansons skull.So i believe the priest.

• 530. Laura  |  June 20th, 2009 at 6:03 am

  Next On:Thursday 2nd July 9:00pm - Sky3
  Synopsis:Featuring three women who all had brushes with one of America’s most notorious serial killers, Ted Bundy, on the same night in 1978, but managed to survive. Cheryl Thomas recalls how she was stalked by the man for months before her friend Debbie Ciccarelli raised the alarm, and Diane McCain tells how she was lucky to survive as the killer rampaged through her college house in Florida

• 531. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 12:02 pm

  Hi George–

  I’ve had a very busy morning, so I’m going to answer this in two parts: A bit now, and more later. First, I too am a student of WW2, so hello to a fellow traveler in that field of study.

  Bundy: Yes, in my opinion,Ted is different from many of the known killers out there. I do not think he was a genius, mind you, but I do believe his thought patterns were far different from most of us almost all of the time. More on all of this later.

  Gotta go for now!

• 532. KYGB  |  June 20th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

  Tonght on the Learning Channel there is a show on Ted at 7PM. Iit is one of a series of shows on Serial Killers. TLC will repeat the show.

  Kevin, I wanted to post a question to you on some new Bundy books that are coming out. I know the focus on here is your new book. do you have a problem with me asking you a ? on these other works?

  Don’t want to come on here as a spammer, so let me know your thoughts.

• 533. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

  KYGB (I’m glad you’re not KGB, as in the old Soviet Union org,LOL!)

  Of course you can ask me about other Bundy books, as long as the questions are legit and not some form of advertising. So fire away.

• 534. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

  Okay, George, I’m back! And a very good line of questions, I might add.

  Now, I believe what the minister felt concerning evil is quite true. I too, as a minister, have had dealings with murderers, and sometimes they emit an almost tangible sense of evil; and under such circumstances, the minister would do well to understand that there won’t be a lot of “ministering” going on between the two of them. Such people have entered a realm of thinking and “being” that is so far removed from society, that they will never be able to relate to anyone (including the minister) in a normal or productive fashion. This is why I found it so distressing that Bundy so easily conned Dobson during their session. Of course, Rev. Dobson was looking for a way to blame pornography for all of this, and Ted was more than happy to play along. Amazing. Yet many close to Bundy understood what he was doing to Dobson and later told him so, and Ted didn’t deny it.

  As to the confessions he made at the end, I’ll say this: Ted was attempting to buy real time, so he knew he had to be truthful if he wanted to get anywhere with the investigators. Indeed, Mike Fisher told me that he warned Theodore that he wasn’t going to come to Florida to listen to “his bullshit”. If he came to Florida (this isn’t in the book, so I’ll tell ya), Bundy would have to admit to the murders, and tie up all the loose ends. And of course, this is exactly what happened. So Bundy was willing to fess up to many things, and as such, answer many of the questions Fisher, Keppel, and the other detectives had concerning missing and murdered women from their respective states. And that was exceedingly good.

  Now as to Bundy, Hitler, Stalin, etc, I will say this: Bundy’s evil (and it was evil) was internalized for years until one day it gave birth to an outwardly dangerous creature on a mission, as it were, to destroy beautiful young coeds. Hitler, however, had many internal qualities which he cultivated AS HE WENT ABOUT seeking change in a very troubled and war-torn society which saw him as a type of redeemer. And as such, Hitler and his society went about building a Germany marching in unison with one another, and in doing so, created a nightmare for the entire world. So where Ted became a monster on his own, Germany became a monster nationally, and as such, the sins of Germany must rest on the country which gave Hitler power; otherwise, he wouldn’t have had any.

  Also, never having attained above the rank of corporal during the First World War, Hitler didn’t have the skills needed to direct multiple armies in battle, but he did it anyway, and always to the frustration of the German General Staff. Can anyone say STALINGRAD?

• 535. KYGB  |  June 20th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

  I live in Northern KY. I was listening to the big radio station in Louisiville. A guy came on and was discussing a new book on Ted Bundy. The guy was a very good conversationalist and the book sounded interesting. I then googled “Ted Bundy Book Louisville” The results yielded this site.
  Turns out the other author is from Chattanooga. It’s actually two authors, two guys who are stand-up comedians, Tim Wilson & Roger Keiss. The book’s name is Happy New Year Ted. it alleges that Bundy is the actual killer in 4 or 5 murders in Columbus Georgia from Dec ‘77 to April ‘78.
  A mna named Carlton Gary is on Death Row in Georgia for 7 murders. The case is known as Georgia Stocking Strangler case. The victims were all elderly ladies in the Columbus GA.

  There, of course, a lot problems with this hypothesis. The murders are not in Ted’s MO. Ted had few resources in that time-frame, to be commuting miles to Tallahasee, and so on.

  It seems real unlikely, but the authors promise a lot of data incluing new photos and police reports.

  Have youi heard of the work, or is this just coming from off the wall?

• 536. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 3:28 pm

  Hi KYGB!

  Well, I’m familiar with Tim Wilson, and I’ve never heard of this book, so I can’t say anything about it just now. But what I know of Wilson (hearing him occasionally on the radio talk shows) I want to think it’s some type of joke! But who knows? But no, I absolutely don’t think Bundy was involved in these murders. For one thing, Ted didn’t escape from jail in Colorado until late December of ‘77, and was arrested in Pensacola on (I believe) the 15th of February 1978. So if these murders started in December and continued up until April, that leaves Bundy out. And Bundy’s Florida time is well documented, mind you. Also, Ted wasn’t “in” to killing elderly women. He enjoyed killing women close to his own age as well as young girls, so if any of this is actually true (that they collaborated on a book like this), I’d be really surprised, to tell you the truth.

• 537. Laura  |  June 20th, 2009 at 4:17 pm

  http://www.timwilsonamerica.com/#/the-book/4533995820

• 538. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 8:20 pm

  Say, here’s something interesting (I’ve had this awhile): This is the intersection in downtown Louisville where Bundy exited the freeway to have breakfast when he passed through the city on his way to Florida. I was unable to copy it from the site, but here is the address:

  http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/04mar//07.htm

  The first photo shows the exit ramp splitting off in two directions. I’m not sure which one Ted took, but he made his way to the eatery which was located on the block to the left of the picture, perhaps about 50 feet away from the corner, which would be going north in the picture. In other words, as Bundy came down the ramp, he looked to his right and spotted the place.

  If anyone has a problem reaching the site, post it here, and I’ll give further info on how to obtain it.

• 539. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

  A slight correction to comment 537: “going north in the picture”
  should be “going north west in the picture”

• 540. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 20th, 2009 at 10:54 pm

  Well, I just viewed the Ted Bundy doc. on TLC, and here are a few comments: Of course, they describe certain crimes incorrectly, as in the Janice Ott abduction (they have her meeting Ted while walking her bike at the lake) etc. Also, I wish they would take the time to track down some of the other detectives (I did) who were lead investigators in the case; folks such as Mike Fisher, Jerry Thompson, Don Patchen, etc, as it would make it far more interesting. Still, it was nice seeing Bob Keppel again, especially the old interview that was included in the program.

• 541. Claire  |  June 21st, 2009 at 12:47 pm

  Hi Richard, I’d love to ask Polly Nelson a few questions. Does she not mind being interviewed?

  The medallion was probably given to him by Diana Weiner or Carole. I notice in the Dobsdon interview he is wearing his wedding ring. Odd given that Carole was not talking to him at that stage. I guess he wanted to remind the world that somebody once loved him.

  Thanks Jason & Laura for the info on that documentary. I’ve got to start checking sky tv guide more often, I would have missed it if it hadn’t been for your info.

  I’ve been trying to get hold of Amongst the Lowest of the dead. Google books do a preview and yep the minister certainly felt he was evil. I believe Mike Mello did a book on FSP death row prisoners and how he gave his legal aid. I can’t remember the name though. Is it worth tracking down Amongst the lowest of the dead?

• 542. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 21st, 2009 at 1:08 pm

  A few additional comments about the documentary I didn’t have time to make last night: I understand why they change certain things when it comes to “showing” crimes;it all has to do with time constraints. That is, you can only get so much done with the air time you have, and therefore, you look for ways to demonstrate your point with (in this case) the figure of the girls vanishing, and that’s a good way to do it. Also, I like the fact that they obtained some good footage (or perhaps shot it themselves before the place burned down) of Bundy’s rooming house in Florida.

  The other side of the coin is this: In my opinion, they came back to folks in Washington State too much (with the exception of Keppel, who had a real part in the story throughout, as did all the lead investigators) instead of finding the important players in the other states; which, as I said in my previous post, would have given the viewer a real sense of how things unfolded in each state. Also, when they add the “experts” to the program (and often these folks were not a part of the original investigation) it’s a complete wast of time, in my view. Much better to track down the doctors who worked with Bundy.

  All in all, I liked it, but I would not rate it as high as one of the other Bundy Bio’s I watched a few years ago .

• 543. Jason Nelson  |  June 21st, 2009 at 6:28 pm

  Thanks Kevin for the information on the TLC documentary. Overall, based on what you have said about it, i guess i didnt miss too much. Its allways nice to hear ‘experts’ opinions on Bundy but sometimes its like instead of taking an educated guess, you could actually find many truths just by thoroughly researching the topic.
  Claire actually made a good point. Not only would i want to ask Polly Nelson but also Diana Weiner some questions since she was the closet to Bundy during his last years. Kevin did you try and get hold of those two for an interview/conversation? I was guessing that since they were lawyers, they would be happy to discuss the Bundy case, although Diana probably would not because she had a personal/intimate relationship with Bundy.

• 544. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 21st, 2009 at 7:36 pm

  Hi Jason–

  The TLC doc is certainly worth watching, it’s just that it could have been better had the aforementioned things been adhered to a bit more. For example, they could have interviewed Dr. AL Carlisle out of Utah. He worked closely with Bundy, and I’m sure would have been agreeable to an interview. But no matter, if you get a chance to see it, do so.

  I never attempted to contact any of Ted’s Florida attorneys. I had Nelson’s book (and every Bundy book in print!) as well as box after box of files from the State Archives of Florida, so I really never saw the need to contact them That is, I had everything I considered important to write about Theodore’s murderous activities in Tallahassee and Lake City, so seeking them out for comment was never my intention. Still, I can fully understand why certain people do contact them, due to the part they played in this story. But for me, it was never an issue. Now, two folks I would have enjoyed talking with would have been Mike Minerva and Vic Aficano, both defense attorneys for Bundy. But because I really didn’t NEED to speak with them, I didn’t bother trying to make contact. I was far to busy taking care of the needs at hand, as I knew I was heading towards the finish line of this book, and so it was a matter of staying focused, making those last-minute contacts that absolutely needed to be made.

• 545. Ted Montgomery  |  June 22nd, 2009 at 8:36 am

  Kevin, I read your book. The publisher was kind enough to send me a review copy. I obviously won’t write a “mini-review” and post it on this thread, because that would not be fair to your readers who are anticipating the book with great relish. I do have some questions that I’d like to ask about certain things in the book before I sit down to write the review. Would you be comfortable answering a few simple questions off-line?
  Let me know and thanks again.
  Ted

• 546. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 22nd, 2009 at 8:58 am

  Sure, Ted. Contact the Headsman and he’ll give you my email address.

• 547. Richard A. Duffus  |  June 22nd, 2009 at 10:46 am

  Kevin, I’m sorry about the delay in answering your question in 521. Bundy’s wearing the medallion was a prediction based on information I got from Bobby Lewis and my seeing the chain in the interview video. There’s nothing about it in any of the literature or photos that I know of. I was surprised when Nelson confirmed both that he was wearing one and that it was one of a pair as predicted. But because its presence could have been coincidental, it needs to be further identified. If the medallion can be completely identified, the prediction holds that the person who has the other one is the same person to whom Pete Hayward was referring when he said “somewhere there is someone Bundy has told the whole story to” and one of those to whom Bundy was referring with the last word he spoke.

  Claire, I interviewed Nelson in ‘94 just after her book came out. She was pleasant and forthcoming. John Tanner was the same. If you know how to find her, she probably wouldn’t mind unless time has changed her. The Mello book is called “Dead Wrong” and is worth at least reading. I love the advice he gave to Ted concerning his confessions, “shut up, shut the f*** up, and shut the f*** up now.”

• 548. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 am

  Thanks, Richard. Was that the minster telling Bundy to shut up? Why would he do that, I wonder?

• 549. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 22nd, 2009 at 10:51 am

  Geeze, make that MINISTER!

• 550. KYGB  |  June 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 pm

  The minister didn’t say that. It was Michael Mello, who used to represent death sentenced persons in Florida with the Office of Capital Collateral Representative (CCR).

  Read Mello’s “Dead Wrong”. It’s another slant on Ted’s defense. Mello is quite critical of Polly Nelson. Nelson putr a lot of work into the bundy case, but her inexperience did trip her up from time to time.

• 551. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 22nd, 2009 at 11:49 pm

  Thanks, KYGB. You know, as far as I’m concerned, it wouldn’t have mattered if Nelson was the greatest attorney in the world when she represented Bundy, as she was assisting a dead man. There just wasn’t any way he wasn’t going to take a ride in Old Sparky!

• 552. Fiz  |  June 23rd, 2009 at 7:44 am

  I feel so sorry for Polly Nelson. She became an alcoholic and the case gave her a nervous breakdown as well. Kevin, I do wish you’d join Facebook, because I’d love to be able to chat to you, since we both contribute to Clews as well.

• 553. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 am

  Hi Fiz–

  Yeah, if I had to represent Ted, I think I’d need a shot or two just to get through it; and I don’t drink!

  Oh Fiz, should I join Facebook? Am I really ready for it? Are they ready for me? Well. I just might do it yet!

  Kevin

• 554. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 23rd, 2009 at 8:53 am

  Well, as everyone can see, they have the book cover “out there” now, and I’ve got to say, I really like it!

• 555. Fiz  |  June 23rd, 2009 at 4:27 pm

  Go on, Kevin , if I can , you can! I suspect we are much the same age.

• 556. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 23rd, 2009 at 5:00 pm

  I’m 54, Fiz. I can remember when my father turned 50. I shuddered to think how old he was; now look at me! Funny though, I don’t feel that old!

• 557. Vidor  |  June 24th, 2009 at 1:52 am

  Hm. I read as much of that Mello book as I could via Google Books preview, and he doesn’t spell out anything in particular that Polly Nelson did wrong. He seems mostly to be very angry that Nelson wrote a book after Bundy was executed in which she included his confessions to her. Does he go further into errors by Nelson in the parts that are hidden from Google? Even if Nelson did make mistakes, it wasn’t her fault that Jim Coleman gave her so much responsibility. (And in fact, as the book makes clear despite the “Last Lawyer” subtitle, Jim Coleman remained Bundy’s attorney of record and directed the case right up until the end, when he was present to watch Bundy fry.)

  In any case, despite Mr. Mello’s reservations, we are lucky that Nelson did write her book, because it contains quite a bit of primary source info that wasn’t in the other books. More of Carole Ann Boone than any other source to be sure.

  So, July 5 is a firm publication date?

• 558. Kevin M. Sullivan  |  June 24th, 2009 at 9:14 am

  Perhaps the July 5th date is a good estimate after all: The cover art is finished, I’m thinking the page placement of the photos are in the bag, and that everything is completed except the generating of the page proofs; something the development editor told me this week is coming very soon. So once I receive those, I’ll read through it, making any last-minute corrections, as well as adding the page numbers to the index I’ve created for the book. So we’re at the proverbial door of things!

  Here’s something interesting that Don Patchen told me last June when I was visiting him at his home in Florida. It isn’t in the book, so I’m happy to tell it here:

  Don said that he had an appointment to meet with the governor of Florida the morning of Ted’s execution (I think he said he’d been invited by him due to his work on the Bundy case). Anyway, the night before, someone involved with the execution asked him if he wanted to witness Ted’s demise, and Patchen said he did. So he canceled his meeting with the gov. and headed for the prison. Don said that as he entered the witness room, Bundy waved his hand at him; apparently a sincere (my words) good-will gesture. Anyway, I just thought everyone might want to hear this little tidbit of a tale.

• 559. Fiz  |  June 24th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

  I’m 51