1903: Arthur Alfred Lynch condemned 1795: Unspecified Robespierrists

1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer

January 24th, 2009 Headsman

Qu’est-ce que c’est?

It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.

Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.


Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?

The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.


Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)

Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.

ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?

I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.

From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.

Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.

The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?

The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.

But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.

Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?

Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.

You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?

They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.

I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?

They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.

Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way

How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?

Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.

However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.

Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.

* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.


Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:

Also on this date

Entry Filed under: 20th Century,Capital Punishment,Common Criminals,Crime,Death Penalty,Electrocuted,Execution,Florida,History,Infamous,Murder,Popular Culture,Serial Killers,Sex,USA

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7,413 thoughts on “1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer”

  1. Hal says:

    I was recently searching for a photo of Ted taken in the 80’s and came across another claiming to be his daughter. I took a snap of it, but couldn’t find anything else on the webpage about her. I thought little of it.

    I had a look again a few days ago, and suddenly felt like it was legitimate. I showed it to a female, along with a photo of Boone (without saying who the people in the photo were). She thought it could be the daughter of Boone, but that much was obvious. Then she asked if it was supposed to be the little girl in the photo. She swiped back and forth looking at two old jailhouse Polaroids and the current picture. ‘Yep, I think it’s her.’ The eyes are quite distinctive.

    Has anyone seen it? She doesn’t resemble Ted in any way, a very attractive girl with a European look (as did the girl in the Polaroids – I’d have guessed French). And best still, looks like a very happy, contented soul. I can’t imagine Boone being unfaithful to her bunny, but it’s a nice thought that her girl might not have been Ted’s.

  2. KYGB says:

    Ted, please post those stories when you get a chance.

    The Beatles book is a great idea.

    Hal, can you give the URL for that picture? I can’t find it on the World Wide Web!?

    1. Hal says:

      Bundy’s Daughter Photo:

      I can’t find the photo any more either. I saw it last week on a Google image search, looking for one of the family Polaroids that surfaced from his Death Row years. When you clicked on it, it asked you if you wanted to ‘view image’ or ‘visit page’. If you clicked on the latter there was absolutely nothing there except the photo. The description was basic, something like ‘Ted Bundy’s daughter’. I saved the photo and it wasn’t until I saw it again a few days later, especially directly after the photo I had been looking for, that I suddenly thought it might be legit. As does someone else who doesn’t know Ted from Adam.

      Anyway, I’ve uploaded the original photo that is currently awol online. If you can, save it, and look at it back to back with the actual known photos of Boone’s daughter. Could this finally be her?

      http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=20rqjvc&s=8

  3. Anonymous says:

    This is a very interesting discussion forum, but I really don’t think it is a very good idea to start speculating too much about Bundy’s daughter. She is in no way responsible for what her (possible) father did, and hopefully has been able to put all of that behind her. I’m sure that no one here has malicious intents, but I think it would be wise to think more about the consequences that our curiosity about her might have. Let’s assume that’s a real photo of her, and then that is posted on a larger forum, say Reddit – next, it will land on actual news media. At that point, it can never be erased from the internet, it’s out of anyone’s control.

    The result of being outed as Ted Bundy’s daughter could be absolutely disastrous for her life. There are still plenty of people out there who think that one ‘bad apple’ spoils the entire family, and that anti-social personality disorder is so highly inheritable that she must be a dangerous person as well. She could lose her job and friends, have to move, have to change her identity. It’s not worth taking that risk for us to satisfy our curiosity. Hal, I’m sure you meant no harm, but I think it would be wise if either you or a mod removed that image and the instructions on how you found it. Seriously, this kind of speculation/outing could possible destroy a life or lives. It might seem that we’re just discussing this within a small circle of people, but anyone can view this page and the discussions on it.

    1. Hal says:

      The pic has been removed from the host site, which should solve the problem.

      I also contacted the Headsman earlier, but I think the pic has been removed from the original site too. I’ve tried every variation I used last week on Google and can’t find it again.

      Apologies, I thought it would be seen by a dozen people, with the chances of anyone recognising her as absolutely nil. And it was already ‘out there’, although as that no longer appears to be the case, it’s best it isn’t here either.

      1. NWgal says:

        I’m glad you all are protective of this young woman. I know her name and where she lives and works. I’ve never told anyone and won’t. Even though I don’t know her personally, I cannot imagine growing up knowing you were Ted Bundy’s daughter.

  4. I wish the same respect were shown to the victims and their families.

  5. Anonymous says:

    You are absolutely right, Richard Duffus. There should be more talk about how devastating violence is to families and how these women and girls were real people who deserve respect. You often see people talking about serial killer victims as if they were just meat, and seeking out crime scene photos, the more gruesome the better. It seems like there’s a complete disconnect; like people can’t see that these were real people. How would any one of us feel if our family member or friend was brutally murdered and her/his image frequently shared online, or printed in the papers? There should definitely be less ‘glamorizing’ of serial killers (real life serial killers, including Bundy, are not superhuman Hannibal Lecters, but usually just personality disordered people who are so spineless that they refuse to take any responsibility for their actions), less repetition of the gruesome details, and the availability of crime scene photos to the public should be restricted. However, I find it somewhat bizarre that you’re implying (if that’s what you’re doing) that Bundy’s daughter is somehow less deserving of anonymity…? I might just be overreacting to your comment; it’s a valid point you’re making about us respecting the victims.

  6. It is bizarre. They are all victims and all of them are deserving of anonymity. But victims’ families don’t have the option to make that choice while the killer’s family does. It’s another way the killer inflicts injury upon his victims (I include the families as victims).

  7. Anonymous says:

    That’s not quite correct though. The killer’s family has no more choice than the victim’s to remain anonymous once their family member’s name is reported in the media. In the majority of the well-known serial murder cases, the killer’s family has also been relentlessly hounded by the press, and many have had to change their name and move in order to regain at least some of their anonymity. I really don’t see why we should be pitching these two ‘categories’ against each other; both are victims of the serial killer’s actions.

  8. When Rosa came up as a topic of discussion, you objected that it was inappropriate. That happens often. But I haven’t seen anyone object when any of the victims is brought up. That’s the disparity to which I’m reacting.

  9. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Be nice, everyone. lol!

  10. Anonymous says:

    There is no disparity, I think you’re just looking for a fight. ‘Rosa’ has chosen to remain anonymous and people were posting a photo of someone they thought might be her as an adult. This runs the risk of exposing her and causing her significant distress. I would react exactly the same way if people were speculating about the family members of any of the victims in the same way or were posting photos from their Facebook accounts etc. here. This has not taken place, and hopefully never does. Now, let’s follow Mr. Sullivan’s advice.

  11. I’m not picking a fight, I’m making an observation. Look at the facts. People are proactively going through old yearbooks looking for photos of Bundy’s victims to post on the internet (see Mario’s 10/15/2014 post on page 146). We’ve seen photos like those of of Healey’s roommates and Hawkin’s classmates and no one has objected to the invasion of their privacy. But when people go looking for Rosa, it’s a different story.

    1. Mario says:

      Well the difference is that one of them is completely unknown, and she likely has no idea who she is or who her father is, and digging up her past which has intentionally been kept vague is a horrendous breach of ethics. That is just muckraking for the sake of muckraking.

      Posting pictures of the already known victims, in an attempt to humanize them a little better and make them less of “just a name on a checklist”, well that’s different.

      So yes it is quite a different story.

      1. If you are correct, then she is being lied to about her parents are just like her father was. I wonder how that’s working for her.

        As far as attempting to humanize victims, how do you know their families wouldn’t object to your approach?

  12. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    I really don’t see posting pictures of victims, families, or others involved in the case as an invasion of privacy. These folks were caught up in events and that’s just the way it is. Nothing wrong with posting pictures, in my opinion. That said, any of these folks have a right to say no to interviews, and once their intentions have been stated, they should be left alone.

  13. One of the things the victims’ families most need is the ability to exercise some measure of control over events that affect them. How their daughter is remembered is certainly included. They are the ones who should initiate that process. Some have offered humanizing insights. Others want to be left alone. As much as their wishes can be determined, they should be respected unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.

  14. KYGB says:

    There were comments back up thread about Rosa and Carole Boone. They have new last names and still reside in the PNW. Rosa is well aware who her father was. The people in that area are sensitive to their situation and no attempts to “out” them have been made.

    It seems to be an example of the better side of human nature.

  15. Ted Montgomery says:

    As promised…

    A female witness filed this statement with Seattle police on 8-9-74:

    “Two weeks ago, crossing 16th and 50th NE, a man crossed at the same time (and had) crutches (and a) briefcase. He kept dropping the briefcase. Weird feelings. Didn’t like him. Did not help him at all. Did not like the way he looked at me.”

    A husband and wife gave this statement to police on 10-4-75:

    “The witness advised me that on the day Janice Ott disappeared, he and his wife looked at the house they are now living in. This house is on the south side of I-90, across from the High Point Road turnoff. This would be approx. one mile east of where the two bodies were found. Sometime prior to 1 p.m. on that Sunday, he and his wife were looking at the (then-vacant) house when a VW came driving up, turned quickly and left again. He observed a man and woman in the car. His wife said she was standing on the porch steps when this car pulled up in the driveway, quickly backed out and drove off. She said there was a man and a woman in the car. She noticed that some of the woman’s hair hung down the front of her chest, approx. to the bustline, and it was a light dishwater blond color. She said the girl had the look of being uncomfortable, of not wanting to be there. She said when she saw the pictures of Janice Ott in the papers, she feels the girl in the car was Janice. The husband added that on several occasions prior to this incident, he had observed a tan VW parked in a secluded hidden place in that general area.”

    The cop who took this statement then added his own thoughts: “The house had been vacant up until this time. Ted was probably familiar with the house, and possible planned to use it on this occasion, or he was looking for a secluded area, as this is one of the first roads that turned off to the right of I-90 eastbound. When this didn’t work, he got back on I-90 westbound. The first good side road to the north of I-90 was the road on which the remains were found. I do not feel any part of the above story was fabricated as a result of the articles in the paper about the recent arrest of Ted Bundy (because the witnesses told me this story prior to Bundy’s arrest).”

    Now, discuss.

    More eyewitness accounts to come.

  16. KYGB says:

    Great work, Ted.

    The Ott statements made the hair stand up on the back of my arm. That poor girl. You can only imagine what she went thru.

  17. Fiz says:

    That was fascinating, Ted, thank you for posting it.

  18. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Very interesting, Ted, thanks! :)

  19. Ted Montgomery says:

    From 10-3-75…

    From a victim who thinks she was raped by Bundy:

    “This morning at approximately 8:30 my boyfriend and I sat down to breakfast. I started reading the entertainment section; he was reading the front page and said “they have a ‘Ted’ suspect.” I glanced at the picture and went back to my breakfast. A few seconds later, I glanced again at the picture. I was struck by the jawline (and) how it reminded me of the man who raped me (in) the fall of 1973 in Tacoma. I looked more closely and felt I recognized him. I looked at the photo for the next 10 minutes while my boyfriend got ready for work (and) we talked about what I should do. I decided to call the police. I searched my records to see if I had the name of the detective I had talked to at the time of the rape in Tacoma. I didn’t.”

    Eventually, this victim did connect with the officer who took her original complaint. She continues her story:

    “I told him I was pretty sure the man in the photo on the front page of today’s Post Intelligencer was the man who raped me. He said he would check it out and call me back later in the day. He called me back and asked if I would sign a complaint against the man, T. Bundy. He said he would call back later to see if I would.

    “Then I called my boyfriend at work and told him that I was very positive about the identification of the man from the photo, but that I wouldn’t want to prosecute without seeing the man in person.”

    Before signing the complaint, the victim sought legal advice. The lawyer told her she could be put in “an unpleasant situation with both the police and defense lawyers grilling (you), but if (you) are quite sure that was the man, that should not stop (you) from signing the complaint.”

    In the end she gave a statement and signed a complaint against Bundy, but the crime never was prosecuted. There’s no doubt in my mind that Bundy was committing sexual assaults in 1973, and earlier.

    Another possible sighting, from a police report dated 8-4-75:

    “Mrs. —— stated after seeing an interview with Bundy on Channel 5, she recognized him as the individual (who) attempted to pick her up at the Auburn library. He acted suspicious. She recognized his looks and his voice.”

    And another, from a man who had seen a news report about the description of a potential suspect’s car:

    “On Sunday, July 14, 1974, at approximately 4:15 p.m., my wife and I were out driving around. As we were leaving Pine Lake Park I noticed a metallic brown Volkswagen bug parked between two pine trees at the end of the main parking area.
    There were no occupants in the car at the time I saw it. I could identify the VW if I saw it again.”

    More to come.

  20. Arnar Þór Þórsson says:

    Hello all.

    It’s always a pleasure reading the comments on this site and i will keep on doing so for a long time. There is a question i was hoping to get answered here. In your book Kevin it states that Bundy had a peculiar speech pattern, ‘clipped’ and almost British sounding. I knew of that before i read your book but i can’t for the life of me figure out what the clipped part means and if it clearly shows his speech pattern on for example the audio confessions which are posted on youtube. Just hoping to shed some light on my curiosity.

    Greetings from Iceland, Arnar.

  21. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Hi Arnar!

    Well, here’s one definition of clipped:

    “characterized by quick, terse, and clear enunciation.”

    And: “having quick short sounds; “a clipped upper-class accent””

    Bundy may not have always sounded like this, as he didn’t always have a British like accent.

  22. Larry G says:

    So awesome to see our discussion continue…. Not awesome that Bundy was a necrophilic, life-destroying monster; I think everyone gets what I mean.

    Fascinating new information Ted M, thanks for sharing, would love to see anything more you have.

    I have to think someone posted this already–if they did and I missed it forgive me. But a Utah TV station is currently doing a 3 or 4 part series on Bundy’s reign of terror culminating with the never before heard Utah confession tapes.

    http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/ted-bundys-reign-of-terror-in-utah/10638/kCmr5sIaCU2hT8Mlc5UBjQ

    Just wish I could figure out how to scrape the video from their site, so far no luck.

    Enjoy!!

    Larry G

    1. Arnar Þór says:

      Hi guys, i’m on my phone so i can’t open the page, is there a video posted on there and will the thursday video be on there also?

  23. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Hey, Larry G!

    Good find on the Utah TV info. I’m on my way to check it out now.

    Thanks again!

    Kevin

  24. Larry G says:

    Thanks Kevin. If anyone has any tips on downloading those videos via browser, please share!! How fascinating, there’s a picture of his Utah driver’s license I had never seen. And Thursday night the full Utah confession recordings will be posted….never before played in public.

    See we’re not all that strange after all!!

    -Larry G

  25. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Hi Larry G and all!

    I really liked the first installment, and since I did not have access to the tape or transcript of the Utah confession while writing the book (I didn’t really need it), I’m looking forward to hearing Bundy’s confession.

  26. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Well, I haven’t listened to all of the Utah confession, but Bundy did admit taking Debra Kent to his apartment after abducting her, just as I suspected. And remember I received info from Mike Fisher concerning his suspicions that Ted took Melissa Smith and Laura Amie to his apartment at 565 First Avenue.

    It is difficult to hear in parts, but I believe he also admitted to killing her there as well. This too I assumed as it only made sense (from his perspective) as he didn’t want her alerting anyone.

    More to come after i finish it later tonight.

  27. Shelley says:

    Larry: You can get an add on for your browser that will allow you to download and save video. There are many free ones that work very well. I use Flash Video Downloader with FireFox. You can download most formats including the video and audio files from web site mentioned with a click of a button.

  28. Larry G says:

    The info is just fascinating isn’t it? I also haven’t had the 2 hours free to listen to it all, but I will get to it. Yes it was amazing to hear for the first time him admit taking anyone to the apartment. I’m still astonished as to how he was able to get multiple lifeless people on multiple occasions up the stairs or fire escape with absolutely nobody noticing.

    Shelley-appreciate it. I do have Flash Video Downloader with Firefox. I was able to get it to work with 2 of the 6 video segments, but not the first 3 installments. The first 3 or so don’t show up as downloadable. I’ll keep working on it.

    Enjoy everyone, it’s just fascinating.

    Larry

  29. Arnar Þór says:

    The interview on the good4utah site took place two days before Bundys execution. Were the Keppel confession tapes before or after the Coach interview?

  30. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Larry G; Yes it is fascinating. No matter how many tapes I’ve heard, or transcripts I’ve read, it’s always interesting to hear him utter knew things. I’m glad this tape has been made available in its entirety.

    BTW: The audio keeps dropping in the middle of the recording (at different places) and i have to begin again. Is anyone else having trouble with this?

  31. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Hey Arnar,

    When Bundy started confessing that he did in fact kill these girls, yes, that was at the end. He did this with all the detectives during the last few days of his life. He did work with Keppel concerning the Green River killer, but there were no first-person confessions by Ted. These wo.uld come later

  32. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Or “would”, lol!

  33. Jack says:

    I had always wondered why there was never more than a summary of Bundy’s Utah confessions, previously. “Riverman” contained the Washington and Colorado transcripts. Kevin was able to shed light on the Idaho confessions in his book, but in all of Bundy literature, there was nothing more than a synopsis of what Ted told Dennis Couch. That always puzzled me. Why their conversation couldn’t be located in text.

    It’s certainly very interesting to get the FULL confession on audio. I now understand why none of the literature contained the transcript; there’s not a lot to be learned. Ted drags his feet throughout the entire session; whispering, trailing off, taking long pauses that don’t amount to anything revelatory. I would estimate more than forty minutes is Ted lapsing into silent rumination. Very frustrating indeed. Bob Keppel was lucky to get as much as he did coming on the heels of this interview. He was smart to use pressure on Ted in the moments when he just goes quiet. Couch didn’t have as much leverage and consequently, there’s a lot of beating around the bush in between the minutes of silence.

  34. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Hi Jack,

    Excellent question (I thought the same thing myself – but only for a second).

    Here is what I think has gone on since the time of the tape:

    If you’ve followed things I’ve said about Utah, and how they’re not really interested in preserving artifacts and case file material from the Bundy case, then you won’t be surprised at what I’m about to say;

    Almost everything I have from Utah came from Jerry Thompson. He has the files. The salt lake county Sheriff’s office has nothing now. They don’t even have the 1975 photo of the Bundy murder kit – Jerry has it. Utah doesn’t care one bit about archiving anything from the Bundy case for posterity, Unlike Washington State and Florida – two states that do care about such things – Utah has let it all go. They even destroyed the court transcript of the Carol DaRonch trial after nine years, just as they do with all transcripts after nine years.

    My opinion is this: Dennis Couch has the only tape of the confession, may have no transcript, and has kept it under wraps all these years. Perhaps i’m wrong, but this is probably the way it is. And if it is, at least it has been preserved by the news folks for future use by other – maybe!

    I was very fortunate to have a connection with Jerry Thompson. What will it be like in 50 years when writers travel to Utah to conduct research into the Bundy case? Well, good luck, is all I can say.

    Good hearing from you again, Jack.

  35. Ted Montgomery says:

    More eyewitness reports. Ted or not Ted?

    Taken 8-16-74:

    15-year-old female was walking in the area of Broadway and Denny around 3:00 a.m. She said a man approached her and was going to give her money. When he wanted her to go with him, she got scared and ran from him. She said he was driving a tan V.W.

    Taken 9-9-75:

    Trooper ____ was contacted by Mr. _______ _________ about an accident. _______ of Kent, was hunting with two companions when they stumbled across numerous girls’ underclothing in dense woods. Upon leaving they were involved in an accident in which (his) vehicle ended up in a ditch on Highway 18. Trooper contacted on this accident and man reported finding the clothing. The location was described as 2 miles south of I-90 on Highway 18 and east from Highway 18 on a dirt road approx. 1 mile. Man told trooper that the clothing appeared to have been placed there recently.

    Taken 4-11-75:

    Called in to report seeing man (who looked like the composite drawing of “Ted”) walking on the right hand side of I-90 about 5-7 miles east of Issaquah. This is a wooded area. He had hold of woman’s arm walking with him. Woman described as 5’1-5’2, blond-brown shoulder length hair. Nice-looking woman – average build – nice figure. Wearing long sleeve green blouse and blue Levi’s or cords. Man described as 5’10”, 160 lbs. – slim build – curly brown hair. Wearing light-colored shirt, blue pants and white tennis shoes.

  36. Diana says:

    Wowzer! It’s been a while…but after hearing the newly released UTAH confession tapes last week, I just had to come by here to chat!

    So it appears that Ted may have taken more gals to his apartment than was previously realized. Very interesting!

    Also, he said he had “No Recollection” at all of Melissa Smith and Laura Aimee. Hmmmm. That was weird. They were identified as victims that he CONFESSED to… any idea who he confessed them to? Must be Hagmaier??

  37. Hal says:

    A great find, even if it isn’t always gripping. And like everything in Tedworld, it suggests more new questions than it provides answers.

    He must have ‘amended’ much to Hagmaier after this, although Ted appears to more or less admit them all at the beginning.

    Some of this had been known already. Rule quotes from it, although claims it was from the Keppel interview. Unless Ted was so well practised in his planned answers he gave the same three sentence sequence to both.

    The stuff about the photos was interesting. Anyone who has ever tried to look someone up they can barely remember on Facebook has probably been struck that no matter how posed, photos never fail to identify the people in them. Is Ted just stalling when he says photos won’t help, or did he really imagine another face in place of the one infront of him? (‘Stephanie’? His mother?)

    Also, that’s an awful long time to keep someone at your shared house when they are still alive. Just how much privacy could he have had in there with a live body? Could he have been telling half truths, getting the timeline right but the location wrong? Perhaps not wanting to look like a sadist caveman by chasing them around the mountains all night?

    One thing is absolutely certain – Ted is lying in this interview. Exactly when and why are the mysteries.

  38. Ted Montgomery says:

    Hal, good post. I would submit to you that since Bundy so totally depersonalized his victims, that how they looked (especially their faces) meant little to him and probably didn’t even register. They were symbols to him – and not actual living and breathing persons.

    Let’s face it…Bundy lied all the time. Nothing in this interview seems to hold up to vigorous scrutiny of the facts as we know them. He kept the girls alive at his apartment, but they would have been unconscious the entire time. He didn’t want any personal interaction, he just wanted “dolls” to play with.

  39. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Hi all! (great work, Ted M!)

    Even though I didn’t know for a fact that Bundy had taken Debra Kent to his apartment that night, it seemed likely in mt mind that he did. Now we know from his confession with Couch that he did have her there.

    For those who haven’t read my book, here is what I wrote about the situation:

    “But what is truly mind-boggling about his decision to reach out to Liz at that particular time was that Debbie Kent had been in his hands less than one hour. Still breathing but unquestionably unconscious, Debbie was either in his car with a blanket thrown over her, or he’d quickly carried her up to his room by way of the fire escape. That way he could be free to perform anything he wanted to for as long as he wanted to before disposing of the body.”

    Kevin M. Sullivan. The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History (p. 118). Kindle Edition.

  40. Hal says:

    Kevin, I could be wrong, but I reckon the info you got about Bundy taking victims into his Utah rooming house came directly from this tape/interview, even although you haven’t heard it until now. I’m not sure what else would have suggested it to them (unless I’m missing something). Especially as, at the time if I recall, they seemed to consider his room as the outpost of his neat, ordered life, and not his actual chamber of horrors.

  41. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Hello, Hal…

    I actually received that info from Mike Fisher, but NOT about Debra Kent. He mentioned that he believes that Bundy brought Melissa Smith and Laura Amie to his apartment at 565 First Avenue. That makes sense, as it was determined that Smith was kept somewhere alive for 5 to 7 days prior to her being found dead. She was abducted on Oct. 18 and found on Oct. 27. So she had to be somewhere, and i believe Fisher is right. But no mention of the Kent abduction or where she was taken.

    I just figured, since Bundy called Liz from his apartment only an hour after he grabbed Kent, there were only two probable places he could have hidden her: In his car or his apartment.

    Also, I believe he told Couch that he dumped her later that night, but I think he was lying. Bundy liked to hold on to these women once he had them sequestered at his apartment.

  42. Diana says:

    Kevin, I’m curious, why was Mike Fisher taking guesses on UT cases? What made him think Bundy took home Smith and Aime? (yes, I know it’s true that he DID take them home…I’m just wondering why Mike chimed in on those UT cases and what made him believe it)?

    In his last few hours, Bundy DID tell Bill Hagmaier that he kept Smith and Aime at his apartment for a few days after they were dead. He wanted to use them for necrophilia for a while before he dumped the bodies. Sure, Bundy could have been lying, but we know he was a hardcore necrophile. He loved women most in their state of DEATH, not alive. Alive was only good for the hunting. After the hunting was up, he wanted them dead and ready to “play” with.

  43. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Hi Diana!

    Well, Fisher knew Bundy had been killing in Utah before crossing the state line and began killing in Colorado, so they shared a common history, as it were. And you might remember from my book that it was the “similar transactions” that Fisher was after that could help him make a case against Bundy in Utah.

    Mike Fisher was the type of investigator that if he believed you had murdered someone, he’d “dog” the person all over the earth if necessary to bring him to justice. The guy had real staying power.

    Ultimately, the similar transactions was not allowed into the case, but no matter, as he achieved his goal anyway. :)

  44. Diana says:

    That’s a really great point about Mike Fisher, Kevin! And for that, I give him some serious props. The fact that Fisher stayed on Bundy without backing down gives me hope for law enforcement. Fisher is the type of detective that people should aspire to be like. Today, people give up too easily when the going is tough…or they eventually just get fried out and lose interest. Fisher’s tenacity is what being a GOOD detective is all about.

    Now here’s a question: if Bundy was trying to come clean for the families (haha, yeah right) in the end like he “claimed” in his final few days, why did he tell Couch that he had “no recollection” of Smith or Aime? Why those 2 inparticular? I mean, he admitted to Ott and Naslund to Keppel. He admitted to Kim Leach. Why was it Smith and Aime that he wouldn’t confess to until he was alone with Hagmaier???

  45. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Good question. Well, I believe Bundy was mad at Couch due to him having no maps and feeling he was a bit unprepared. I can’t confirm or deny this, but Bundy did mention this irritation to at least one of the other detectives, so it may have played a part.

    So the question is this: Did Ted deny Couch this because he was angry? We don’t know.

    Of course, without question he killed both Smith and Aime, and he may have told others beside Bill Hagmaier (Keppel for example) that he killed them.

  46. Diana says:

    Thoughts on why Bundy left the bodies of Smith and Aime out in places where they would most definitely be found? Those particular bodies showed people just how nasty and “different” (after death shampoos and manicures, etc.) Ted could be…stockings left strangled around necks…raped, beaten… Do you think Ted wanted his kills to start being found at this point? He must have…but why?

  47. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Yes, there were times when Bundy wanted the bodies found. Some he buried and they’ve never been found, and this was obviously the way he wanted it. Some he left for the creatures of the woods to consume and scatter, and some he dumped into rivers and they were never seen again. And sometimes he left bodies close to “civilization”, and these Bundy wanted found. But why? I think it’s safe to assume we’ll never know. :)

  48. Kevin M. Sullivan says:

    Did you know that you can get my audio book, The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History, for FREE? That’s right – all twelve hours, wonderfully narrated by Kevin Pierce. All you have to do is sign up for a 30 day FREE TRIAL at Audible.com. If, after 30 days, you discover you love listening to audio books, you’ll pay for their services at that time. But if you decide to quite, you can still keep my book for free! It doesn’t get any better than this!

    https://mobile.audible.com/pd/Nonfiction/The-Bundy-Murders-A-Comprehensive-History-Audiobook/B00OG5UV8Q?s=s

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