Qu’est-ce que c’est?
It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.
Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.
Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?
The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.
Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)
Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.
ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?
I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.
From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.
Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.
The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?
The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.
But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.
Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?
Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.
You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?
They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.
I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?
They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.
Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way
How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?
Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.
However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.
Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.
* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.
Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:
-
Video of Wildwood Inn, where Bundy abducted Caryn Campbell in 1975. (From Timmy)
Thread commenter Richard A. Duffus wrote a 2012 book about Ted Bundy, Ted Bundy: The Felon’s Hook (Excerpt | Image from the book)
Video interview of Kevin M. Sullivan (From Richard A. Duffus)
On this day..
- 1522: Didrik Slagheck
- 1887: Georgette and Sylvain Thomas, guillotine couples act
- 1981: Not Kim Dae-jung, South Korean president and Nobel laureate
- 1641: Not Manuel de Gerrit de Reus, chosen by lot, saved by hemp
- 1970: Three in Baghdad
- 1538: Anna Jansz, Anabaptist
- 1963: Lazhar Chraiti and nine other Tunisian conspirators
- 1846: Elizabeth Van Valkenburgh, in her rocking chair
- 1936: Allen Foster, who fought Joe Louis
- 1911: Shusui Kotoku and ten other anarchists
- Daily Double: The High Treason Incident
- 1938: Han Fuqu, Koumintang general
- 1992: Ricky Ray Rector, "a date which ought to live in infamy for the Democratic Party"
The minister didn’t say that. It was Michael Mello, who used to represent death sentenced persons in Florida with the Office of Capital Collateral Representative (CCR).
Read Mello’s “Dead Wrong”. It’s another slant on Ted’s defense. Mello is quite critical of Polly Nelson. Nelson putr a lot of work into the bundy case, but her inexperience did trip her up from time to time.
Geeze, make that MINISTER!
Thanks, Richard. Was that the minster telling Bundy to shut up? Why would he do that, I wonder?
Kevin, I’m sorry about the delay in answering your question in 521. Bundy’s wearing the medallion was a prediction based on information I got from Bobby Lewis and my seeing the chain in the interview video. There’s nothing about it in any of the literature or photos that I know of. I was surprised when Nelson confirmed both that he was wearing one and that it was one of a pair as predicted. But because its presence could have been coincidental, it needs to be further identified. If the medallion can be completely identified, the prediction holds that the person who has the other one is the same person to whom Pete Hayward was referring when he said “somewhere there is someone Bundy has told the whole story to” and one of those to whom Bundy was referring with the last word he spoke.
Claire, I interviewed Nelson in ’94 just after her book came out. She was pleasant and forthcoming. John Tanner was the same. If you know how to find her, she probably wouldn’t mind unless time has changed her. The Mello book is called “Dead Wrong” and is worth at least reading. I love the advice he gave to Ted concerning his confessions, “shut up, shut the f*** up, and shut the f*** up now.”
Sure, Ted. Contact the Headsman and he’ll give you my email address.
Kevin, I read your book. The publisher was kind enough to send me a review copy. I obviously won’t write a “mini-review” and post it on this thread, because that would not be fair to your readers who are anticipating the book with great relish. I do have some questions that I’d like to ask about certain things in the book before I sit down to write the review. Would you be comfortable answering a few simple questions off-line?
Let me know and thanks again.
Ted
Hi Jason–
The TLC doc is certainly worth watching, it’s just that it could have been better had the aforementioned things been adhered to a bit more. For example, they could have interviewed Dr. AL Carlisle out of Utah. He worked closely with Bundy, and I’m sure would have been agreeable to an interview. But no matter, if you get a chance to see it, do so.
I never attempted to contact any of Ted’s Florida attorneys. I had Nelson’s book (and every Bundy book in print!) as well as box after box of files from the State Archives of Florida, so I really never saw the need to contact them That is, I had everything I considered important to write about Theodore’s murderous activities in Tallahassee and Lake City, so seeking them out for comment was never my intention. Still, I can fully understand why certain people do contact them, due to the part they played in this story. But for me, it was never an issue. Now, two folks I would have enjoyed talking with would have been Mike Minerva and Vic Aficano, both defense attorneys for Bundy. But because I really didn’t NEED to speak with them, I didn’t bother trying to make contact. I was far to busy taking care of the needs at hand, as I knew I was heading towards the finish line of this book, and so it was a matter of staying focused, making those last-minute contacts that absolutely needed to be made.
Thanks Kevin for the information on the TLC documentary. Overall, based on what you have said about it, i guess i didnt miss too much. Its allways nice to hear ‘experts’ opinions on Bundy but sometimes its like instead of taking an educated guess, you could actually find many truths just by thoroughly researching the topic.
Claire actually made a good point. Not only would i want to ask Polly Nelson but also Diana Weiner some questions since she was the closet to Bundy during his last years. Kevin did you try and get hold of those two for an interview/conversation? I was guessing that since they were lawyers, they would be happy to discuss the Bundy case, although Diana probably would not because she had a personal/intimate relationship with Bundy.
A few additional comments about the documentary I didn’t have time to make last night: I understand why they change certain things when it comes to “showing” crimes;it all has to do with time constraints. That is, you can only get so much done with the air time you have, and therefore, you look for ways to demonstrate your point with (in this case) the figure of the girls vanishing, and that’s a good way to do it. Also, I like the fact that they obtained some good footage (or perhaps shot it themselves before the place burned down) of Bundy’s rooming house in Florida.
The other side of the coin is this: In my opinion, they came back to folks in Washington State too much (with the exception of Keppel, who had a real part in the story throughout, as did all the lead investigators) instead of finding the important players in the other states; which, as I said in my previous post, would have given the viewer a real sense of how things unfolded in each state. Also, when they add the “experts” to the program (and often these folks were not a part of the original investigation) it’s a complete wast of time, in my view. Much better to track down the doctors who worked with Bundy.
All in all, I liked it, but I would not rate it as high as one of the other Bundy Bio’s I watched a few years ago .
Hi Richard, I’d love to ask Polly Nelson a few questions. Does she not mind being interviewed?
The medallion was probably given to him by Diana Weiner or Carole. I notice in the Dobsdon interview he is wearing his wedding ring. Odd given that Carole was not talking to him at that stage. I guess he wanted to remind the world that somebody once loved him.
Thanks Jason & Laura for the info on that documentary. I’ve got to start checking sky tv guide more often, I would have missed it if it hadn’t been for your info.
I’ve been trying to get hold of Amongst the Lowest of the dead. Google books do a preview and yep the minister certainly felt he was evil. I believe Mike Mello did a book on FSP death row prisoners and how he gave his legal aid. I can’t remember the name though. Is it worth tracking down Amongst the lowest of the dead?
Well, I just viewed the Ted Bundy doc. on TLC, and here are a few comments: Of course, they describe certain crimes incorrectly, as in the Janice Ott abduction (they have her meeting Ted while walking her bike at the lake) etc. Also, I wish they would take the time to track down some of the other detectives (I did) who were lead investigators in the case; folks such as Mike Fisher, Jerry Thompson, Don Patchen, etc, as it would make it far more interesting. Still, it was nice seeing Bob Keppel again, especially the old interview that was included in the program.
A slight correction to comment 537: “going north in the picture”
should be “going north west in the picture”
Say, here’s something interesting (I’ve had this awhile): This is the intersection in downtown Louisville where Bundy exited the freeway to have breakfast when he passed through the city on his way to Florida. I was unable to copy it from the site, but here is the address:
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/04mar//07.htm
The first photo shows the exit ramp splitting off in two directions. I’m not sure which one Ted took, but he made his way to the eatery which was located on the block to the left of the picture, perhaps about 50 feet away from the corner, which would be going north in the picture. In other words, as Bundy came down the ramp, he looked to his right and spotted the place.
If anyone has a problem reaching the site, post it here, and I’ll give further info on how to obtain it.
http://www.timwilsonamerica.com/#/the-book/4533995820
Hi KYGB!
Well, I’m familiar with Tim Wilson, and I’ve never heard of this book, so I can’t say anything about it just now. But what I know of Wilson (hearing him occasionally on the radio talk shows) I want to think it’s some type of joke! But who knows? But no, I absolutely don’t think Bundy was involved in these murders. For one thing, Ted didn’t escape from jail in Colorado until late December of ’77, and was arrested in Pensacola on (I believe) the 15th of February 1978. So if these murders started in December and continued up until April, that leaves Bundy out. And Bundy’s Florida time is well documented, mind you. Also, Ted wasn’t “in” to killing elderly women. He enjoyed killing women close to his own age as well as young girls, so if any of this is actually true (that they collaborated on a book like this), I’d be really surprised, to tell you the truth.
I live in Northern KY. I was listening to the big radio station in Louisiville. A guy came on and was discussing a new book on Ted Bundy. The guy was a very good conversationalist and the book sounded interesting. I then googled “Ted Bundy Book Louisville” The results yielded this site.
Turns out the other author is from Chattanooga. It’s actually two authors, two guys who are stand-up comedians, Tim Wilson & Roger Keiss. The book’s name is Happy New Year Ted. it alleges that Bundy is the actual killer in 4 or 5 murders in Columbus Georgia from Dec ’77 to April ’78.
A mna named Carlton Gary is on Death Row in Georgia for 7 murders. The case is known as Georgia Stocking Strangler case. The victims were all elderly ladies in the Columbus GA.
There, of course, a lot problems with this hypothesis. The murders are not in Ted’s MO. Ted had few resources in that time-frame, to be commuting miles to Tallahasee, and so on.
It seems real unlikely, but the authors promise a lot of data incluing new photos and police reports.
Have youi heard of the work, or is this just coming from off the wall?
Okay, George, I’m back! And a very good line of questions, I might add.
Now, I believe what the minister felt concerning evil is quite true. I too, as a minister, have had dealings with murderers, and sometimes they emit an almost tangible sense of evil; and under such circumstances, the minister would do well to understand that there won’t be a lot of “ministering” going on between the two of them. Such people have entered a realm of thinking and “being” that is so far removed from society, that they will never be able to relate to anyone (including the minister) in a normal or productive fashion. This is why I found it so distressing that Bundy so easily conned Dobson during their session. Of course, Rev. Dobson was looking for a way to blame pornography for all of this, and Ted was more than happy to play along. Amazing. Yet many close to Bundy understood what he was doing to Dobson and later told him so, and Ted didn’t deny it.
As to the confessions he made at the end, I’ll say this: Ted was attempting to buy real time, so he knew he had to be truthful if he wanted to get anywhere with the investigators. Indeed, Mike Fisher told me that he warned Theodore that he wasn’t going to come to Florida to listen to “his bullshit”. If he came to Florida (this isn’t in the book, so I’ll tell ya), Bundy would have to admit to the murders, and tie up all the loose ends. And of course, this is exactly what happened. So Bundy was willing to fess up to many things, and as such, answer many of the questions Fisher, Keppel, and the other detectives had concerning missing and murdered women from their respective states. And that was exceedingly good.
Now as to Bundy, Hitler, Stalin, etc, I will say this: Bundy’s evil (and it was evil) was internalized for years until one day it gave birth to an outwardly dangerous creature on a mission, as it were, to destroy beautiful young coeds. Hitler, however, had many internal qualities which he cultivated AS HE WENT ABOUT seeking change in a very troubled and war-torn society which saw him as a type of redeemer. And as such, Hitler and his society went about building a Germany marching in unison with one another, and in doing so, created a nightmare for the entire world. So where Ted became a monster on his own, Germany became a monster nationally, and as such, the sins of Germany must rest on the country which gave Hitler power; otherwise, he wouldn’t have had any.
Also, never having attained above the rank of corporal during the First World War, Hitler didn’t have the skills needed to direct multiple armies in battle, but he did it anyway, and always to the frustration of the German General Staff. Can anyone say STALINGRAD?
KYGB (I’m glad you’re not KGB, as in the old Soviet Union org,LOL!)
Of course you can ask me about other Bundy books, as long as the questions are legit and not some form of advertising. So fire away.
Tonght on the Learning Channel there is a show on Ted at 7PM. Iit is one of a series of shows on Serial Killers. TLC will repeat the show.
Kevin, I wanted to post a question to you on some new Bundy books that are coming out. I know the focus on here is your new book. do you have a problem with me asking you a ? on these other works?
Don’t want to come on here as a spammer, so let me know your thoughts.
Hi George–
I’ve had a very busy morning, so I’m going to answer this in two parts: A bit now, and more later. First, I too am a student of WW2, so hello to a fellow traveler in that field of study.
Bundy: Yes, in my opinion,Ted is different from many of the known killers out there. I do not think he was a genius, mind you, but I do believe his thought patterns were far different from most of us almost all of the time. More on all of this later.
Gotta go for now!
Next On:Thursday 2nd July 9:00pm – Sky3
Synopsis:Featuring three women who all had brushes with one of America’s most notorious serial killers, Ted Bundy, on the same night in 1978, but managed to survive. Cheryl Thomas recalls how she was stalked by the man for months before her friend Debbie Ciccarelli raised the alarm, and Diane McCain tells how she was lucky to survive as the killer rampaged through her college house in Florida
Hey guys(and gals)-
Kevin,and this may seem very odd to ask,but in the very bizarre realm of the serial killer,doesnt Ted seem so very much more bizarre than the rest?One example for instance about how he fits both extremes.I have been,almost throughout my life,a student of history.WW2 in particular.David Van Drehle wrote an excellent study of Florida Death Row,entitled Among the Lowest of the Dead.A third of the book was devoted to Ted.The one thing that struck me was the reaction of the clergyman who took his last confession.He said he felt as if he was in the presence of an evil genius and compared T.B to Hitler in that sense
Now,i have two points here.Any and all confessions that Ted Bundy gave were always given under duress or tainted by gamesmanship.He would never spoil them with remorse.When he rejected that plea bargain ,he ensured his own immortality in a way an anonoymous prisoner cannot.He was born for the Row.And the chair.
Second,there is a tendency when studying despicable people to downplay their very real talents.(hitler,stalin,et al) M+A do this to acertain extent as did PollyNelson.Anyone however who knows Ted as we do knows he pulled his greatest con with the Dobsen interview.Many people bought the act.Afew hours later he snickered about burning up Donna Mansons skull.So i believe the priest.
Vidor, Courtney, and all…
The photo used on the front cover says it all: Ted Bundy looks like a raving madman! What a shot that one is, and one that I’ve seen republished at other times.
Hi Courtney–
I was referring to the photos included in the 1983 hardback/first run edition of The Only Living Witness. I’m not looking at the book at the moment, but some of these pictures might have been taken by the authors M&A (Mike Fisher, Jerry Thompson, Ted behind the fence?), and if this is so, it would explain why we haven’t seen them republished anywhere else. I just can’t say for sure.
The medallion: To be honest, I’m not one to give a whole lot of credence to these things, so for me, I’m not going to read much into this, whatever it is. Still, it’s kinda fun to kick it around here if someone believes there’s something to it. Because in the end, there could be something odd attached to it that may have had some meaning to Bundy, as Ted was way beyond odd; and then again, maybe it was nothing all the time, and Bundy didn’t see it as anything more than a piece of jewelry. Who can say?
****Hey Kevin, where can I find these pictures at that are rare photos? Especially the one with Ted standing behind a fence?****
That was a reference to the original 1983 hardback edition of “The Only Living Witness”, which has an impressive photo section.
Hey Kevin, where can I find these pictures at that are rare photos? Especially the one with Ted standing behind a fence? I’d like to know more about the medallion as well….hmmm makes one wonder, doesn’t it?
If he did, what would be the significance of Bundy having that item?
Bundy could have gotten the medallion from anyone, Carole, Diana, Louise, or whoever. That’s why I need to identify it. These kinds of things are fairly common. I’m trying to find out if it’s the one he got from Bobby Lewis. If so, it’s significant.
Thanks, Jason.
I ve found some good news for our UK posters. The documentary ‘Surviving Ted Bundy’ is going to be shown on Sky 3 on July 3rd 10.50 pm. Here is a brief descripton of the program…
‘Cheryl Thomas, Debbie Ciccarell and Diane McCain all had brushes with Ted Bundy, one of America’s most notorious serial killers. But for one reason or another he chose to spare them…’
I will post my thoughts on the programme after it has aired. I wouldnt mind recording it and uploading it somehow for Kevin and the others to see but for legal/copyright reasons, i may not be able to do that.
Claire–
I forgot to add last night, that I think I’ve seen the documentary Cold Blooded Killers, and perhaps another one, but they were a long time ago. I know there was one that had this really annoying sound of someone typing on a keyboard throughout the program as they wanted to highlight certain portions of the story. I could hardly stand it, LOL!
Hi Jason,
I guess we will always be wondering about certain aspects of these cases as long as we live. As I said before, Bundy took a good deal of information with him, and I personally believe he was sorry to have to give up the info. he eventually confessed to at the end. He considered that information “his” and told authorities so in Florida.
The medallion! Yes, I would like to know more, and perhaps we can convince Richard to fess up, LOL!!
Vidor–
Also, I too picked up an original ’83 hardback, and it does have a good selection of photos not usually seen in other additions; including a pic of Mike Fisher. How about that photo of Theodore at the end of the photo section where he is standing behind a fence, chained and looking strangely at the camera? A good picture of Jerry Thompson, too.
My book is also signed by Stephen Michaud with a little note written to a lady named Emily, and dated March 8, 1983. No doubt from a book signing somewhere in the Northwest, as it came from a bookstore in Washington State.
Hi Kevin
Thanks for the information on the cabin. Once Bundy mentioned the abandoned cabin to Keppel and said it was in Issaquah, you could say a light bulb appeared above my head lol.
Thanks Claire for the information on the various documentarys that are shown in the UK on Bundy. They sound very interesting and i will keep an eye out for them in the future. I remember watching another Ted Bundy documentary which has not been mentioned above simply titled ‘Serial Killers: Ted Bundy’ which had shown alot of various clips and interviews from the law enforcement involved in the case as well as more clips of Bundy at trial which are not widely avaliable. I will definately keep an eye out for these documentaries in the future and possibly try and record them since they do tend to be quite rare.
With reference to the medallion, since it was one half of something, could it have been a gift from Carole or Diana Weiner since they were the two main women that Bundy was close to whilst he was on Death Row? Or it could of been from his mother? Just based on what Richard said above, it seems that the mediallion has some sort of significance for Bundy so it could of been given to him by either of these women.
Btw, I live in Middlesex which is basically in North London which is where i have lived and also went to University. I ve always wanted to go and visit the US and in due time, hopefully that will be possible
Many thanks everyone
Jason
Thanks, Vidor. Very informative!
****I believe the M&A book did touch on it in later additions, but only a sentence or two, as I recall.****
I can answer this. The 1999 Authorlink edition of “The Only Living Witness”, which is the one you’ll find in bookstores these days, mentions Culver only briefly, noting that Bundy confessed to two Idaho murders, that of Culver and the unknown hitchhiker. Just recently I picked up a used paperback edition of TOLW from 1993, published by Signet, and that one had more to say about the Culver murder. That one was the one that specified that he lured Culver into the VW from the playground of her school, took her to a Holiday Inn where he had a room, raped her and drowned her. It does not go into further detail as to just how Bundy transported Culver from the school to the Holiday Inn.
There are several differences between the two editions. The Signet paperback updated shortly after Bundy’s execution has a few pictures and has multiple passages that were edited out of the later Authorlink edition–probably there was some kind of word limit for Authorlink. The Signet edition also identifies Carol Valenzuela as one of Bundy’s victims and lists the spot where Valenzuela and an unidentified victim were found together as Bundy’s third dump site. The Authorlink version omits Valenzuela.
I recommend the Signet paperback. Besides having more information than the Authorlink version, and having pictures, it doesn’t have any of the unfortunate typos that muck up the Authorlink version. It’s available at various used book sites.
And if that isn’t enough nattering about editions–I stumbled across the original 1983 hardback of TOLW at a local library, and it had LOTS of great pictures. Crime scene diagrams, a picture of the catwalk at the Wildwood Inn where Bundy encountered Caryn Campbell, etc, etc. But of course that one wouldn’t have anything about his confessions and execution.
Richard–
This is the first I’ve heard of it, and you’re right, I wouldn’t have bothered to ask Bill about it unless I knew about it. Too bad Nelson couldn’t shine any light on this for you. But now that you have me mildly interested (LOL!!) if you change your mind about sharing your thoughts here, don’t hesitate to pass your theory on to us!
Kevin
Hi Megan–
Yes, I have a good deal of information on the Culver murder, and I think that whatever questions you have about this particular killing will be answered in-full, one might say, after you read my book. Unfortunately, I’m unable to share anything prior to publication.
I believe the M&A book did touch on it in later additions, but only a sentence or two, as I recall. Speaking off the top of my head, as it were, I believe I have 6 to 8 pages on the case, and It will give the reader an all-around view of that day in Pocatello, Idaho.
Take care,
Kevin
Hi Mark–
I mentioned in a previous post that Bundy may have used a cabin within a 30 minute drive of the lake, as this would have been quite possible. But alas, we can only speculate on what Ted actually did, and we may never know the particulars of how he pulled this one off.
I think it’s a great idea you have concerning the taking of photographs of all these sites. Man, if I were there, I’d ask to go on a ride-along, as they say! LOL!! There is nothing quite like walking the grounds where these types of things have occurred, as it gives you a sense of location that’s not easily obtained if one hasn’t been there. You can learn a great deal about any area through the study of really good maps and photographs, but being there is the icing on the cake, you might say. Anyway, I would love to see these pictures afterward, so let us know when you have them.
Yeah, Bill Hagmaier told me awhile back that Mr.Bundy had passed away, and that Louise had not mailed him a Christmas card (as she’d been doing every year since Ted was executed) in some time.
Take care,
Kevin
I have reason to believe that, during the Dobson interview, Bundy would have been wearing a particular medallion – one of a pair. It was not unusual in and of itself but for him to be wearing it was a bit odd. Beyond that I don’t want to further describe it until/unless it can be further identified by someone.
In attempting to verify my expectation, I checked the tape of the Dobson interview, and noticed on Bundy’s neck the chain securing the medallion whenever Ted tilted his head to his left. So I called Polly Nelson and asked if she’d gotten a close look at it. She said she’d seen it and when she asked him about it he was a bit evasive saying it was “half of something.” The Tanners also confirmed its presence but did not get a close look at it.
I was hoping either Hagmaier or Keppel might have commented about it since they spent so much time with him. But you would probably have to had specifically asked them about it. I’ve been trying to contact them for years about this and a few other things, but they obviously don’t want to talk with me.
Bob Fitz’s comment in 275 that Bundy was killing his mother “or a facsimile therof” may have some substance. See page 10 of http://eprints.qut.edu.au/15917/8/08chapter7.pdf – the whole document starts at http://eprints.qut.edu.au/15917/
Thanks, Richard! No, I haven’t a clue about what Bundy was wearing prior to his execution. Give us the 411, will you?
Hi Kevin,
I’ve recently taken an interest in the Bundy case, so I’ll definitely look forward to reading your book! Of all of Ted’s murders, I was especially disturbed by the murder of Lynette Culver, the 12 year-old girl from Pocatello, Idaho. I read on various websites that Bundy confessed he took her to a room at a Holiday Inn, where he raped her and drowned her in the bathtub. Can you confirm if this is true? Apparently, this is mentioned in a certain edition of ‘The Only Living Witness’ but it is later omitted and Lynette is only briefly mentioned (I have the 1999 edition). So I will be especially interested in what you have to say about this case in your book. It seems hard to believe that he would have committed a murder in a hotel room, so I’m assuming Lynette was knocked unconscious, concealed in something, and then carried inside? Otherwise, how would he have been able to get her inside without people noticing? It also surprises me that he admitted to this murder, as she was the exact same age as Kimberly Leach, and we know how he always shied away from talking about child victims.
the cabin which has been speculated about and was investiagted was many miles south near Eatonville at Silver Lake. LAw enforecement was convinced this was site was used by Bundy but most likely was not used in the Lake Sammamish murders. The site where Bundy went was 10 minutes from the park. I have driven it myself. The cabin his family had was nearly an hour south and would have been impossible to grab Ott, take her, secure her, drive back and abduct and take Naslund, take her, murder and abuse them both and be back in the Greenlake area in time for dinner.
I think this summer I might take photographs off all the areas described and incorporate with a map. Ted’s stepfather passed away two years ago and his mother sold their family home last winter in a short sale. They lived in this home for nearly 40 years. I may photograph this as well and provide later in the summer.
Did anyone comment to you about the odd medallion Bundy was wearing just before his execution?
Happy 500th!
Claire–
Yeah, as I said in an earlier post, not a day goes by that I don’t think about these young women. I was born in 1955, and some of these girls were too. I have had a lot of life since they died, and I’m still going strong, with children, and grandchildren now. They were robbed by a madman, and it isn’t fair, but it happened anyway. So very terrible. Having written this book, I believe they will be a “part” of me for the rest of my days.
And yes, these posts may go on forever, LOL!!!
Kevin
Hey, Jason–
I’m not certain which cabins were searched (if they were searched), and where they were located, and I didn’t stumble across anything in my research of any importance with regards to this matter. But I am convinced he kept Ott alive until sometime after Naslund arrived, and I’m not sure which one died first. I believe this is true because of what he told Bill Hagmaier.
Also, the girls disappeared in mid July, and the remains were not located until what, September 7th, or something close to this? So whatever cabin Bundy may have utilized for the murders (or at least the holding of the women, with the killing perhaps taking place at another location), if it was used again by other, unsuspecting folks, well, said evidence may be gone forever. Anyway, it’s just a thought.
Say, just where in the UK do you live?; that is, a general geographic location will do if you’d rather not be specific.
See ya,
Kevin
PS, 500 posts for now but I can’t imagine how many posts they’ll be on here once the book is out. Kevin you may have your work cut ot for you LOL.
I believe “Surviving Ted Bundy” was once on sky 2 for the UK Viewers. I look out for it from time to time.
Another one, perhaps not shown in the US is “the man who lives with monsters” about Robert Resseler that is on Crime and Investigation sometimes. Not very nice film footage in the docu of the Ted Bundy literally straight after the execution, eyes open and all. I wonder who allowed a video camera into the morgue (creepy, even given the publicity surrounding his execution). Robert Resseler gives some very insightful interviews in it though. His main killer that he studied was John Wayne Gacy, and I believe he got more out of Gacy than any other person.
One other docu that is very interseting I have seen is Cold Blooded Killer’s about Michael Stones scale of evil. Number 17 for Ted Bundy out of 22. You think he’d be slightly higher. Anyone seen this? Very insightful about pyschopaths.
Kevin, you are right. The victims famailies must always feel a great deal of loss despite their retribution against Ted Bundy. To lose someone close in that way must be the worst thing in the world. No goodbyes, no I love you’s, just gone. I always remember the old govenor of WA in the A&E biograpghy saying most people remember Ted Bundy I remember the young women. We all should.
Go Kevin!! lol
Its not surprising that you have reached this amount of post counts since Ted Bundy is such a popular and interesting figure to study. I wouldnt be surprised if this thread reaches more than 700+ after your book would be released but we shall wait and see.
There was one point i would like to make whiich may be obvious to some but since i am from the UK, i only just realised it a couple of days ago. It is in relation to the Lake Sammamish murders in which the debate is whether or not Bundy left Janice Ott alive whilst he kidnapped Denise Naslaud from the park. In his one of his last interviews with Bob Keppel, he gives a description of a crime scene (or dump site) in Issaquah. In this description he describes that there was an ‘abandoned cabin’ nearby which is possibly where he kept Janice Ott while he searched for his next victim. Did law enforcement ever go to this cabin and search it for any clues or evidence which may have been left by Ted?