1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer

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It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.

Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.

Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?

The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.


Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)

Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.

ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?

I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.

From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.

Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.

The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?

The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.

But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.

Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?

Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.

You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?

They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.

I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?

They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.

Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way

How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?

Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.

However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.

Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.

* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.

Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:

On this day..

Possibly related executions:

8,544 thoughts on “1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer”

  2. Hello people

    Look at this clip and watch the first 10 seconds only.
    This is from the time he was in politics.
    I think it’s from 1973
    just before he went crazy i guess
    fascinating to see how charmy, humble and polite he was.
    when you look at him you can understand it was easy for him to lurk woman, whith that long hair and nice smile he was i guess kind of attractive to woman.

    Does anyone have more information about this interview clip?
    Think it’s a great piece of material in the whole Bundy story.

    Greetz Maarten

  3. Thanks to you for this great info. Where I can get more article about this writting? I have a presentation incoming this week and your writting is related with it.

  4. Two things we need to remember about ted Bundy: One, he was an opportunist (if an opportunity presents itself, he might take it). And two, the need to kill would supersede anything else going on at the time. Also, on two occasions, Bundy admitted abducting and killing two women (Brenda Ball and Kathy Parks) to confuse detectives. So a murder in CA might be while he lived there, or it might not. But he did admit to killing in CA, and as I said the other day, at least one missing woman there is no doubt a Bundy victim, as it has his MO all over it. And keep this in mind, if he did ask for CA detectives at the end, he had a reason for doing so.

  5. As for California places of residence of Bundy – FBI report says:

    UNKNOWN ADDRESS, PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA

    Palo Alto certainly means Bundy summer term (June, July, August) of 1967 (Asian Studies) at Stanford.

    Then it mentions re 1970:

    1252 15TH AVE, MARIN COUNTY, CALIFORNIA

    All in all, Bundy is reported to visit California in 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970 and 1973.

    The gap of 1971-1972 remains mysterious to me.

  6. Does anyone remember the title of the documentary Paul mentioned, where Margaret Bowman’s parents are interviewed, and ‘Diane’ mentions Ted’s fingerprint was found on the doorknob of her room (presumably she was saved by Nita Neary’s return)?

    I’ve trawled YouTube, and Googled, but can’t find it.

  7. Hi JRJ – I really don’t have a lot invested in Bundy’s other suspected murders, though I realise many people are much keener than I am to try and pin them on him, or eliminate him. I really just wanted to remind people that Bundy *was* a suspect in California murders, and that Ted himself asked for detectives from California to attend his confessions.

    But if I were going to argue for California murders, I might suggest that he was familiar with that campus and that area; and that (and I’m not sure of the timeline on this) he knew he’d be out of town soon and back in Washington. So Bundy might have killed within ‘blocks of his own home’ at Stanford University too…? (Does anyone know where he lived when he was there?)

    Much was made of the three ‘close by’ murders you mention occurring in that relatively small area of Seattle – Liz Kendall says in her book that she and her friends were very aware of this, and I presume this was because of press coverage – and perhaps that was what prompted Ted to move further afield. I don’t know what degree of publicity there was about the Stanford campus murders and/or disappearances, or whether women there were nervous in the same way Liz was.

  8. Thanks for those links Denise, but wouldn’t it strike investigators as odd that Bundy would kill in far away California, only to then start his “murder spree” within blocks of his own home ( 1) Jenz, 2) Heally, 7) Hawkins) and risk drawing attention to himself; usually this pattern is reversed in serial killers; don’t you think?

    JRJ

  9. Hi Bart–

    No, I can’t remember the exact year, except I believe it was prior to 1973 (perhaps even 1969?). I wish I would have separated this sheet from everything else, so I could read it again and give more specifics, as it had a couple photos attached to it as well. Perhaps one day I can take the time to search through these files not just for that one, but for a few others I would like to view again. I just don’t have the time right now.

  10. Hi Kevin

    Can you recall what was the year of that Standford library disappearance? 1973?

    Previously upthread I was once considering Bundy’s California crimes in his “killer in training years” 1969-1972, but now I am wondering if it was possible that Bundy killed in CA in his ultimate serial murder launch of year of 1974, or just before it – particularly second half of 1973 or first half of 1974.
    He had a lot time – that time, being on unemployment checks, skipping UPS law school classes, doing nothing – right time for long distance travel. Moreover – he was reported in California on July 1973, probably attending GOP convention in Sacramento and re-romancing with Diane Brooks.

    So maybe Corvallis wasn’t the southernmost location to abduct a girl? Maybe he decided for a 14-hours drive down south? Why not? He didn’t have to bring his victim back to Washington area?

  11. Hi Denise and all–

    Bundy did admit to killing at least one woman in CA. He may have killed more, of course, but we may never know for sure. Now, as I’ve mentioned here before, I have somewhere in the thousands and thousands of pages of documents, a poster for a girl who went missing at Stanford, near, and after, leaving the library. Of course, this has to be Bundy, in my view.

  12. Hi Fiz – thanks!

    Hi JRJ – During Bundy’s first spell in jail in Utah, the investigation ramped up and is described in The Killer Next Door, eg California authorities joined in when a traffic citation and a hotel receipt in Ted’s name placed him in California at approximately the times of two of their murders. [The authors don’t say which oones, and I’ve made an error – possibly – by relating them to the three named cases below.]

    You may remember that Ted asked for California detectives to present to his end-of-life confessions, but California didn’t have anyone spare to send, so no Californian detectives showed up.

    The following are my summaries from my trawling of newspapers online:

    California authorities do not get any confessions from Bundy because they can’t send detectives. However, they feel he is
    responsible for several deaths in the Stanford area. He’s a suspect in the unsolved murder of Leslie Marie Perlov, 21, whose strangled body was found in the foothills behind the Stanford campus in 1973; and that of Janet Ann Taylor, 21, who was strangled after leaving the Stanford campus one day. The body of another victim there, only named Perry, was found in Stanford Memorial Church in October 1974. She had been sexually assaulted with altar candles. Keppel believes these are Ted murders. [The church altar one doesn’t sound like Ted, to me]:
    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lJozAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lTIHAAAAIBAJ&pg=2037,3250071&dq=bob+keppel&hl=en

    Seven young Sonoma County women vanished between Feb 1972 – Dec 1973 and Ted was considered ‘a very serious suspect.’
    Pay to view article:
    http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/66391943.html?dids=66391943:66391943&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&type=current&date=Jan+27%2C+1989&author=&pub=Los+Angeles+Times+%28pre-1997+Fulltext%29&desc=The+State+Bundy+Again+Suspected&pqatl=google

    I didn’t read this last article and am only roughly quoting the summary lines. I hope these links come out okay and that the post doesn’t have broken lines all over it as I’m copy/pasting from a Notepad file.

  13. Yes I saw that web site a while ago, it made me think that are we all chamelians in photos. Whenever I see a photo of me it looks like me but the pictures I have seen of the girls in many they look like they are different people each time. It is amazing male or female how you can look so different with a new haircut or glasses. Also there were a few names I was not familiar with.
    I remember that in conversations with a killer Bundy talks about his other life being almost like a homosexual keeping that side hidden ( not an analogy I like ). Nowadays there is no stigma to being gay in most of the world but guess things were different back then. But it is really not that dfficult to hide a whole side of yourself from the rest of the world.
    With regards to Bundy beiing anything I think he could have within reason, he came from a stable home, he did not go to parties or had many friends to distract him, he could study and retain information if he wanted to. He was of average intelligence but he had the basics to become a professional if he had applied himself. The fact that he studied chinese shows that he could study things others would deem difficult to learn. His life could have been meaningful and don’t forget he started killing young a lot of people do not start really applying themselves to better their lives until they are in their 30s and lived a little first. So although I dont think he could have been a brain surgeon I think he could have had a good job earning good money if the “entity” had never surfaced.

  15. I think the biggest respect and tribute we can pay to them is to separate their lives from Bundy entirely. When I read in old newspapers about memorial services, Bundy name was never mentioned during the ceremonies. Those services are about their lives. One can say:’Who cares Kathy Parks hichhiked with her boyfriend from Corvallis to Canada and back during Christmas break 1973? Who cares she spent a lovely vacations in Mexico?’. Well, I do care. But generally speaking these memories should belong to families and friends of the deceased.

  16. It’s a lot better than many other of those posted on You-Tube. One guy presented a school project, obviously he was very much on the side of the victims, not Bundy, but unfortunately used music from the Four Tops called “Are you ready.. are you man enough?” a song I don’t know and I love them, but people seem to have mistaken that to mean he was a Bundy supporter and he’s been called some awful names. I must say, I did think the music was not the right choice, but he poor kid meant well!

  18. Yeah, Fiz, I know about mispellings and poor grammar on this victim tribute site, but as English is not my first language, I don’t feel capable to suggest him proper corrections. The graphic desing of this site is very poor too, but again, I am not web designer. Now, he is probably having a summer break in his high school, as he doesn’t reply my emails, so I’ll probably catch him later in the autumn. This guy also made a video clip devoted to Bundy victims and it is probably still available on youtube.com I will give you the link to this video later. See ya. Bart.

  19. I can see he’s trying really hard, Bart, and if you are helping him, get him to spell check everything, because he’s made some poor choices in grammar and spelling and it seems a shame to spoil the tribute site because of that.

  20. Fiz, I am not angry with anybody, both online and offline. And this tribute site you are referring to contains no photos of any human remains. Check it out, go ahead and click on the link. It is a real tribute site but it still needs improvements in text and graphics.

  21. Denise, I love both of your posts and agree with them both. Bart, is it the person who posted the link you are mad at? I didn’t click it because I did not want to see pictures of things I would rather not look at. Those poor girls’ remains deserve so much more to be respected than been pored over by pseudo-Bundy fans!

  22. Hi Bart –

    Murder was Ted’s career, so I guess as long as his ‘career’ was going fine, then yes, he probably was happy!

    Of course he devoted too much time to his ‘career’ in his early days in Utah, and not so much to socialising, and very little to Law school. When he realised that could look very suspicious if anyone did investigate the ‘law student’ and found he wasn’t appearing at Law school and no one there knew him, he settled down to a routine opposite that of most people’s idea of a career: weekend killing, week-day socialising and university as ‘time fillers’ or ‘day jobs’ in between.

    So I don’t think he was ‘energised’, with respect to socialising and study, by his murders so much as realising he had to pay lip service to maintaining the mask. Also, because he couldn’t tell anyone how successful his real ‘career’ was, there was no one to pat him on the back for a ‘job well done’, and no financial reward either. Only public terror and police mystification to reward him. Plus, as well as his bizarre and murderous sexuality, he was a young man with probably similar sexual urges as other men which he often needed to fulfil in comparatively normal (though to him, probably, limited) ways – and a social life was an easier way to ‘score’ or have a regular partner(s) than hit’n’miss bar pickups.

    I wonder if spies feel the same way about their ‘real’ but secret work? In most cases, after some years, the strain begins to tell on them, and it might have begun to tell on Ted too.

  23. Hi Paul – In ‘The Riverman’ interviews, Ted brought up the subject of the GRK possibly travelling hundreds of miles to abduct and kill as though it were normal practice for himself, which it was. He is a main suspect in 3 California murders which bear his ‘trademark’ and for which he had a traffic citation and a hotel receipt in the areas at the time. He took Kathy Parks 250 miles from Corvallis. He travelled from Utah to Colorado to kill on at least 3 occasions if not more. So it’s easy to think, I believe, that he travelled long distances to commit other murders he didn’t admit to.

    Hi Kevin – You mention that it’s ‘the unusual’ in Ted’s abductions and murders – their public or bizarre nature – that stymied detectives, and might still do despite modern methods of surveillance.

    I agree with you in that respect, though I think Ted would find it a lot more difficult now. But the unusual and ‘daring’ approaches seem to me to come from several strands:
    as said before, who would suspect a law student? Ted was quickly overlooked in the early days of the Washington investigation after Lake Sam, despite tips, because of that;
    he probably knew that, plus learned a lot more, from his jobs in King County Crime Prevention, and Rape studies, not just about lack of communication between police jurisdictions and how not to leave evidence, but probably also something about the weakness of eyewitness identifications;
    from his Psych studies he probably learned how unobservant many people are and, on the other hand, how suggestible they are and how unlikely to remember ‘the usual’ or ‘the not very noticeable’, eg a guy on crutches or with a ‘broken arm’ in relation to a murder crime;
    from his drama class days in Temple University he learned how to look different on different occasions just by slight alterations like hair partings, moustaches, etc.

    He was said too, by everyone who had any close dealings with him, to be highly observant, never missing anything going on around him – and the reason for that was, since he had no idea about ‘real’ human feelings and emotions, he constantly studied people so he could model their behaviour and come across as ‘normal.’ But this ‘study’ for his own purposes obviously had the side effect of making him also notice, eg, that middle class girls were brought up to be helpful, that if you dressed well and looked confident, people in shops literally would not see you walking out with items you hadn’t paid for right under their noses, that if you were polite to prison officers they let down their guard…and so on, and so on.

  24. Hi Fiz – Interesting that you brought up Ed Kemper who really does have a very high IQ (not that he ever used it constructively!) compared to Bundy who was frequently described as ‘bright and intelligent’ and was certainly cunning [he himself says in The Riverman interviews re the GRK, ‘No, but he’s cunning, like the fox’ so he also recognised this difference, I think.] But he wasn’t really bright at all. Ted is said to have written some good legal briefs in his own cases, and Judge Cowart said he would’ve made a good lawyer – but I think we’ve all met, or read about, lawyers who are not top-of-the-tree intellectually. Ted could never see the big picture of anything, and because of that, he never understood the tactical purpose of cross-examination, or of trial strategies either; he had tunnel vision in this respect, and he failed badly in both these areas.

    Michaud and Aynsworth debunk Ted’s so-called intelligence early in TOLW (along with the fact that he was an incessant nose-picker, ugh!). Michaud again emphasised Ted’s lack of ordinary intelligence in an email to me. But you don’t just have to read their assertions. It’s obvious when you see how easily Ted fell into M&A’s interviewing traps, and then again to Keppel’s traps in The Riverman interviews. Also, Ted could never keep track of his own lies or remember what he said on a topic (I think Kevin points this out too). He denied saying something to Aynsworth until Aynsworth played back the section of tape on which Ted had said it. Equally, only a day or two after vividly describing some of his murders to Dr Dorothy Otnow Lewis in her initial interviews with him, he calmly told her that the man in front of her had never killed anyone. (However, Dr Lewis did not challenge this since, according to her own book, the guards had left the area for lunch for an unknown amount of time! [She’d had a previous nasty experience where she ‘killed’ an interview where the murderer became more and more agitated, and he attacked someone right outside the door of the interview room.] As Ed Kemper once said to Ressler in a similar situation, threatening to kill Ressler, ‘What could they do to me if I killed you right now? Stop me watching television for a few weeks?)

    I just don’t believe what someone else suggested here, that Ted could have been and done anything. The only time Ted ever stuck at anything was his psychology degree, presumably because he enjoyed the material. He didn’t *have* ‘stickability.’ He only used his Psych degree for a short time before it bored him. His ‘purpose’ in politics was not politics per se, but upward social mobility; a frame for the ‘new man’ he would present to Diane Edwards, then drop it all when he dropped her. Just playing one of his many parts. He liked the excitement of election campaigns, but not the drudgery of committees and meetings in between elections. He really struggled with Law studies in Tacoma and in Utah, and only really became more interested and focused when he decided to defend himself. He told the girlfriend of a radio-station owner in Aspen that ‘I’m not really into divorce law, I prefer criminal law’, as if he were already a lawyer instead of a former law student who had C-averages in 18 months in two Law Schools. As Judge Lohr asked him, ‘Would you want to have brain surgery done by someone who’d only had 18 months Medical School training?’

    Ted was cunning and controlling and manipulative – but you can see some low socio-economic, low education level and/or alcoholic men who go in for sophisticated domestic violence too. He just really wasn’t that bright. For all that he supposedly loved hiking, he totally messed up his first escape by walking in a circle. For all that he relied on stealing cars, he *never* learned to hotwire them. Etc.

  25. This site devoted to Bundy victims is ran by a highschool teenager from New England. And you know what – I am helping him, correcting some mistakes and delivering him content on victims. The ‘thanks note’ on its home page to ‘ my new friend karzele’ is to me lol. But I didn’t mention this on this thread as I was once was yelled at heavily here for touching the subjects inadequate to this forum. Anyway those victims deserve more sophisticated memorial.

  26. Hallo, Kevin. I might express myself not precisely as my English is poor. But I meant that during Bundy killing spree years he was naturally totally devoted to the crime but his success in murder made him really happy. And I feel that while he was satiated for a while between the murders he was doing quite fine on the ‘surface’ as for a such ‘busy’ person. I didn’t mean naturally he could have gone with serial murder and become a brilliant lawyer and excellent Republican politician. I just meant that ‘succesful’ murder made him happy and fueled him with energy to study and to socialize, to push things forward, of course taking into account the fact he had little time to spare. The following comparison is horribly inadequate, but it is like one happens to fall in love with someone and beside the fact one is constantly daydreaming ‘about her’, still finds energy for daily activities just to build one’s better image in order to ‘impress her’. But that’s from my experience and I am not Bundy. Take care, BART.

  27. Hi Barry–

    Well, I’m glad you’re enjoying the book. And yes, my Lake Sam explanation does seem to be the most likely one.

    As to the length of the book: The final draft ran about 122,000 words. Now, the publisher can alter the page count according to how they lay the words on the page; that is, size of the letters, how many actual words per page, and degree of line spacing, etc. In other words, if you have, say, 250 words per page, the page count for 122,000 words would be over 400 pages — closer to 500 actually. So my publisher, if they wanted to, could easily have made the book 400 pages, if not more. But really, you’re still getting the same amount of info, it’s just on 264 pages.

    Take care,

    Kevin

  28. P.S. i found an interesting tribute site to bundys victims. Here there is some very rare and unseen pics of the victims that i havent seen before and most have photos of the actual spots where they were murdered. An interesting one if u click on denise naslunds name u can see the dirt road where bundy led janice and denise down to thier deaths. just thought be an interesting addition. anyways here it is.

    https://sites.google.com/site/tributetothevictimsoftedbundy/

  29. Hi Kevin and all

    Well kevin i finally got my hands on your book a few days ago and as much anticipation i had to read it straight away, from the offset i was hooked and i had to force myself to stop reading as it was nearing 4am LOL.

    Anyways im half way there and i somewhat dont want this book to end ha. I was looking forward to your view on why ted used his real name as it baffled me for all sorts of reasons as why he would do that.

    Well once i read your explanation i was amazed at how clever ur assumption was, it never dawned on me that indeed bundy could of met a friend or relative that day at lake sammamish and as they would of greeted him with “HI Ted”,if bundy used a false name this would raise suspicions to not only the victim but to bundys friends as to why he would be lieing to the girl with him. And i guess bundy thought there would be no harm in giving his real name as she would be murdered soon so it wudnt matter. Little did he realise.

    On another note kevin as it may been asked before did u intend to make the book longer as i think u mentioned u had loads of information but probably be best to just stick with the facts and putting the most important and interesting material together would be best. And as the saying goes “quality is better than quanity” as can be seen in your work.

    So im sure ill have some questions once i finish your book.

  30. “But, I think his ’success’ in murder made him really feel good and happy and was encouraging him to reinforce his social and university life”

    Bart – Don’t let Bundy’s smile while he’s washing dishes fool you.
    The “mask” Bundy wore during his years of murder did not start to fail him until he got to Florida. By that time, he was a very different man. However, Bundy appeared normal to most people while the murders in the Northwest were occurring, and this certainly goes for Utah, Idaho, and Colorado too. But realize also, that Bundy’s commitments: University, political life, and all things related to his “rise” were on the down-swing, as it were, and he understood that his social climbing days (as far as real commitment was concerned) were over. He was only using what was left to cover his trail of murder, as a law student wouldn’t be doing these things, right?

    In other words, Theodore Bundy fully understood he wouldn’t really need a law degree, wouldn’t become a well-known politician in Washington State. He in essence discarded these when he began his life of murder in January 1974.

  31. It is not gonna be very ‘profound’ thought, but I think Bundy’s total devotion to murder (Utah 1974-75) wasn’t destroying his ‘surface’ life. Naturally, while killing he was also killing himself in a way, killing his future, destroying the last bits of humanity inside him. But, I think his ‘success’ in murder made him really feel good and happy and was encouraging him to reinforce his social and university life. It is weird to say in a such horrible context, but people with a mission (‘murder’ in Bundy case) while succesful on their ‘main road’, tend to move forward also in their secondary spheres of life, too. So when Bundy was happy, he had greater enthusiasm to learn law and to make up tons of lessons he had missed. And he was also encouraged to social life and partying. And here we have answer to why he looks so relaxed on this ‘dish washing’ photo. He was just having time of his life out there in Utah.

  32. Hi Timmy–

    First, thanks for ordering the book! I think you’ll enjoy it, and once finished, feel free to ask questions or just let me know what you think.

    Yes, it would be more difficult for Bundy to operate today, but the current advances in science would not have stopped him from murder (as it hasn’t with other killers). However, if Bundy were to begin his murderous career today, he would be faced with the following: Video cameras (can you imagine an abduction at Viewmont High School today?). All types of roadway cameras, cell phone cameras and video, etc. Greater cooperation between law enforcement officials, with improvements on the Federal level. And, like you say, in the area of forensic science. Having said all that, it wouldn’t have stopped Bundy, and I believe, he would have adapted to the present situation as much as possible. Keep in mind, too, that during the early years of murder (1974 – 1975) Bundy made very few mistakes. True, Bundy used his real name at Lake Sam, and that was most certainly a mistake. He wouldn’t have to pay for that mistake for a very long time, mind you, but it was a mistake nevertheless.

    Also, some of Bundy’s “success” came from doing the unusual when it came to abduction and murder: The Lynda Ann Healy abduction, Lake Sam, Viewmont High in Bountiful, Utah, Denise Oliverson’s daylight abduction, transporting a living Kathy Parks over 250 miles from the university at Corvallis to Seattle, etc. These were very odd and unusual things for a killer to do. Now, to answer your question whether or not there are others out there who have been as successful a murderer as Ted Bundy: Yes, there most certainly have been BUT, none that have stalked, hunted, and killed so publicly as Bundy, in my opinion. As I said in an earlier post (just a few posts back, actually), it is the personality of Bundy, along with the very successful outer
    life he was developing as a law student and politician, that cause him to stand out as someone radically different in the world of killers.

    Take care,

    Kevin

  33. Kevin,

    Thanks for being available for this forum.  I ordered the book today and am looking forward to reading the book.  I’m reading ALL the posts and am at #600 and so I have a lot of very interesting posts to go.  My apologies in advance if I’m asking questions which you have already answered or covered.

    Do you have any people in mind that might have been as prolific and “successful” as a predator as Ted Bundy? 

    My personal opinion is that there’s not a lot of serial killers, certainly with his notoriety, that compare to Ted Bundy’s charisma and calculation – particularly in the Washington murders.

    With that asked (and said) do you think a person like Ted could operate in our current level of forensic science and the level of collaborative technologies that are present in 2010? My personal opinion is that TEd Bundy could never have been such the prolific and successful serial killer today.

    In respect to my first question, one person/case comes to mind. While this person was apprehended rather quickly (in terms of his ability to kill others), there are some scary similarities.  Brinna Denison.

    Brinna Denison was abducted from her friends off-campus rental near the University of Nevada-Reno. Bundy abducted Women near college campuses.

    The person who abducted Brinna Denison, James Michael Biela, was ultimately linked to her kidnapping and two other previous attacks and suspect in others. While these women were not murdered, Denison was displaying levels of escalation. Bundy also did practice runs on women until he felt the confidence to take it to the next level.

    However, with the advancements in forensic science, detectives where able to establish a connection quickly.

    One could say that Denison was very sloppy however Ted was extremely sloppy as well.  For example, telling witnesses his name, driving his own automobile with his license plates, returning to the scene to retrieve evidence, etc. As much as Ted has been infamous for his ability to snatch victims in public, there’s no way that he could be as “successful” in the present day.

    Just wanted to get your thoughts.

    Timmy   

  34. I looked into my Bundy library and I found out that in “The Only Living Witness” there is reference to a person named Larry Damiond, who was Bundy’s workmate at Department of Emergency Service and he is quoted, saying about Bundy:
    “Ted… was almost one-dimensional if I think about it. It’s like there is a very beautiful storefront that’s attractive and lures you in. But when you get inside to see the merchandise, it is sparse to say the least.”

    But also someone other, somewhere else, described Ted as an “empty suit. But I can’t find it or remember who and when. It might have been someone from political circles.

    PS: I know about Ann long-term illness and long-awaited recovery. Nice to have her back and I am impatiently waiting for this new book!

  35. I’ve read every book out there on Bundy, Bart and I truly cannot remember. It might have been “The Killer Next Door” and I wouldn’t swear to it, but I think some people involved with him in political affairs saw through Ted, or thought he was only a chimera, in Ann Rule’s later editions of her books. I can’t ask Ann herself as she’s been very unwell and has just finished proof reading her new book, so she’s utter drained and not doing email at the moment.

  36. Hallo Fiz,

    May I know where did you read that Bundy was also a failure as Republican political worker? It is interesting, because people were generally impressed with him in political circles.

  38. I was teasing you , Kevin! I’ve read books which have claimed (surprisingly!) that the GOP says Bundy wasn’t heading anywhere and only doing scut work. If he was as successful as you say, I am not surprised. My bff ‘s ex was a doctor , had worked long hard – and threw it all away. He was a “snake in a suit ” psychopath and it was always his colleagues’ fault, never his.

  39. I don’t know what happened there, but I’ll continue:

    …the unremitting slaughter of women. True, Ed Kemper was just as diabolical as Bundy, but Kemper was not in the same social league, if you will, as Bundy, neither did he have the “brass ring” in his hands as Ted did. It is the differences in their lives apart from murder which will cause the average person to view Bundy (as to his personality) as being far different than Ed Kemper. But of course, murder is murder, and in a general sense, all murderers are just the same. But when you stand back and view the entire life of the killer, I believe, as Bob Keppel said, there’s nobody quite like Ted Bundy.

  40. Fiz – I used the term “odd and unusual” to describe Bundy a he was the very picture of success, and not an ordinary success, if I may use that phrase. He was walking with the political elites in WA, and he was moving in social circles (and being accepted there) that would eventually allow him to rise to even greater heights of power in his life. Bundy was on the road to some very real social gains in life, and frankly, he had made so many influential friends, that after graduation from law school, he would have had an excellent career in either law or politics. And yet, all the while he was gaining this social statue, he was preparing himself for a life of unremitting

  41. Yes I agree it seems that he could have been anything if he had put his mind to it but chose to kill. It is odd that he did not need to abduct and kill pretty girls to have them. He was charming and good looking, girls were probably throwing themselves at him. He does seem to break the mould as it were on serial killers.It was such a waste of his potential. Perhaps with the correct psychiatric help and better self esteem he would have chose a different track. He just never seemed to develop a conscence or morality. It’s also shocking that he was very young to staer killing most serial killers battle for years with the urges but he seemed to be attacking and killing very quickly.

  42. Kevin writes,”, it is the mysterious unknown about Bundy that holds (and will continue to hold) that interest in him, for he wasn’t just a killer, but an exceedingly odd and unusual killer.”
    As opposed to someone like Ed Kemper, who was the soul of sanity? p

  43. hi
    I have often wondered why I am so fascinated with Bundy and I dont know why. I dont recall ever seeing him on tv or in newspapers and i am in the uk. I first heard about him when i read murder case book then wrote an essay on him for school. He really intersted me possibly because of the risks he took or his victims ages were same as mine and my piers. I dont think he will go away like any other infamous serial killer people will always be interested in him. I just feel very sad for the victims that will always be known as a Bundy victim which of course their life should not be about how it ended. It’s a shame there was not a book dedicated to their lives, their dreams ambitions. What they were like as people. The fact that Susan Rancourt would have made an amazing med student and would have acheived a lot or Caryn Campbells nursing career that she was sympathetic and caring towards her patients. It’s easy to see a name and a face and not relate it to an individual. I hope people don’t de-personalize them as Bundy did. Sorry I am ranting but I have to remind myself that what happened was abhorant and they were wives, daughters, sisters and when their life ended so did a lot of others close to them.

  44. Hi marteen and all
    It was Carlene Brown I was refering to and her friend, also Deborah Rae Meyer. Royal Russell Long is suspected he was charged with murdering in 1981 the three girls were murdered in 1974 that is a long gap to kill 3 in 1 year and then wait 7 years. Ted did travel over 200 miles at least once to kill maybe he had done it before. Of course we will never know the only people that do know are longer with us. In my eyes he has to be at least a suspect for 3 to disappear close together it is unlikely they were killed by someone they knew. Also Carlenes friend was killed by blows to the head this was his MO. Ted did admit to 11 in Wahington 3 were not identified and he included Kathy Parks in the 11 maybe these 2 girls are in Washington as well. However, we will never know. I am sure there are other victims out there and the charley project is good for those that have never been found but of course not for those that have. Bundy denied killing in Illinois, New Jersey, Vermont (Rita Curran?), Miami and Texas.
    What do people feel about Shelley Robertson as I mentioned in my last post yet again we will never know but it does throw interesting questions about as to who here murdere was.
    Brenda Baker is linked with Bundy does anyone know more about her seen a pic she would be his type of victim and a runaway which i pressume means hitch hiker.

  45. hi Bart
    Saw Nancy Wilcox and Denise naslunds mother and Susan Rancourts sister on you tube and Margarets parents on a documentry in the UK also had Cheryl Thomas meeting her neighbour who called police for the first time in years. Also had a lady I think called Diane who lived in chi omega house and Bundys finger./glove print was found on her door knob so looks like he had not finished his rampage with the four he attacked, lucky for her it seemed like Nita Nearys return disturbed him.

  46. Bart– I’ve said it before: No matter what we know about Bundy (and I came up with new info about the murders and the case in general), there will always be a good deal of mystery attached to the crimes. This is due in part because of just how bizarre Ted Bundy was, and how odd and unnerving these abductions he committed really were: Lake Sam, Lynda Healy, Viewmont High School, etc. He was like an unstoppable monster, and people find it difficult to believe that someone who made it through college and started law school, could ever want to kill women and cut off their heads for sexual purposes. But this is exactly what Theodore was, and there isn’t any reasonable explanation for any of it. And so, it is the mysterious unknown about Bundy that holds (and will continue to hold) that interest in him, for he wasn’t just a killer, but an exceedingly odd and unusual killer.

  47. Yeah, you are right – Bundy will always be there.
    I asked this question out of my embarrassment over myself lol.
    Because as I try to widen my ‘criminology knowledge on serial murder and study some more comprehensive book devoted not only to Bundy but to other ‘serials’ and their pattern of behaviour (like “Signature Killers” by Keppel), I tend to get bored or even disgusted with them quickly (as if Bundy was ‘gentleman’ lol) and I go back to Bundy cases.

    I find it unhealthy in mental sense, and not good when one tries to gain more scientific knowledge on serial murder.

    How many times can I read and think about Lake Sam double-abduction or Viewmont High tragedy? It looks like unlimited times – it is so sad.

    Cheers
    Bart

  48. Bart– Bundy will always be a topic of conversation in American homes, as he is the person most people think of when they speak of serial killers. And of course, most people who delve into the crimes of Theodore Bundy, especially those unfamiliar with the murders, will be astounded by the life of the killer (college graduate, law student, political rising star, etc), and the shocking – sometimes out in the open – abductions and murders he committed. So really, I’m certain that Ted Bundy will be viewed in 100 plus years as someone like Jack the Ripper; the only difference being he is the known killer, as it were. At the same time, I believe many killers who are somewhat well-known now, will be little more than foot notes in compendiums of American murders.

    In other words, Bundy will be around for a very long time.

  49. Maarten– I believe the case is of a missing 12 year old. I had a copy of the missing persons poster, and I was trying to correlate exactly when she disappeared, and Bundy’s possible movements during that time. Of course, somebody grabbed the kid and murdered her. But I knew even then the Bundy connection was a long shot. And really, I would never suggest Bundy could possibly be involved in any abduction and or murder unless I could absolutely place him in the same geographical area, and during the same time a victim disappeared.

    I hope this helps.

  50. Ted bundy is an enigma and very fascinating to everybody who start reading about him
    Why do i read about him? i’m just a guy from a small country in Europe. Because he is an ENIGMA and people loves enigmas

    I think there will be more of Ted Bundy the next few decades. I hope finally a big hollywood production cinema. Where the Bundy story is told with big accuracy from A to Z.
    And also growing interest in Bundy because there is so much information available on the world wibe web on this subject.

    BTW i still hope Kevin answers my question about Wyoming.
    I’m dying for a break through in my own research to cases and murders lol and all….

    Greetz Maarten

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