Qu’est-ce que c’est?
It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.
Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.
Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?
The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.
Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)
Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.
ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?
I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.
From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.
Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.
The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?
The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.
But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.
Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?
Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.
You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?
They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.
I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?
They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.
Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way
How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?
Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.
However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.
Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.
* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.
Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:
-
Video of Wildwood Inn, where Bundy abducted Caryn Campbell in 1975. (From Timmy)
Thread commenter Richard A. Duffus wrote a 2012 book about Ted Bundy, Ted Bundy: The Felon’s Hook (Excerpt | Image from the book)
Video interview of Kevin M. Sullivan (From Richard A. Duffus)
On this day..
- 1522: Didrik Slagheck
- 1887: Georgette and Sylvain Thomas, guillotine couples act
- 1981: Not Kim Dae-jung, South Korean president and Nobel laureate
- 1641: Not Manuel de Gerrit de Reus, chosen by lot, saved by hemp
- 1970: Three in Baghdad
- 1538: Anna Jansz, Anabaptist
- 1963: Lazhar Chraiti and nine other Tunisian conspirators
- 1846: Elizabeth Van Valkenburgh, in her rocking chair
- 1936: Allen Foster, who fought Joe Louis
- 1911: Shusui Kotoku and ten other anarchists
- Daily Double: The High Treason Incident
- 1938: Han Fuqu, Koumintang general
- 1992: Ricky Ray Rector, "a date which ought to live in infamy for the Democratic Party"
800 comments!
Claudia, I hope Amazon.com is quick! Otherwise we will be waiting to read it and everybody else will be discussing it!
You’re welcome!
Thanks, Claudia!
Hi Everyone,
The publisher called me back; they were very nice. They said that Kevin’s book might be released in electronic format for the Kindle, but they just aren’t sure yet. I hope it will be, because then I can get my husband a Kindle copy and he won’t have to wait for me to finish my hard copy!
Oh good! Nice turtle!
Thank you, Fiz! And while you’re here, I didn’t forget about Facebook. I am going to have my daughter help me set up an account. So I’m a turtle that’s picking up speed, lol!
Well done, Kevin, you’re nearly there!
Hi Claudia–
Yes, it is exciting, but also exhausting. LOL!!!
I have read through the proofs and mailed them back to the publisher. I’m now working on the massive index, and, not only is there a lot to it, but it’s the first one I’ve ever assembled. Needless to say, I’ll breath a sigh of relief after I finish and email it to them. And I gotta tell ya, I will feel like I can finally “rest” for a moment (but only a couple of days!) on the day it’s actually published. But yes, it does feel good!
See ya
Hi Virginia–
I suppose there will always be doubts about Valenzuela, and she will be forever (in some folks minds) as a “maybe” victim of Ted. Outside of saying Bundy probably killed her, I don’t spend a great deal of time on her case; nor did I attempt to obtain medical reports on her, or anything other than the scant police reports I received, as it was all that I needed.
I do cover the Susan Curtis abduction fairly extensively (but briefly) giving the reader knowledge of her final couple of days, and her interesting connection with Debra Kent. I also describe the possible circumstances of her abduction. So yes, there’s info in the book about her.
Take care
Yes, KYGB, Bundy is very much an enigma!
Hi Everyone,
I just left a voicemail message at McFarland regarding whether Kevin’s book will be available for download onto the Amazon Kindle. I’ll let you know when I hear back.
Kevin, you must be very excited to be in the home stretch! I’m very much looking forward to seeing how the discussion develops when the book is released. Thanks again for being so receptive to our questions and discussion!
Kevin–Glad to hear that the proofs are in and good luck with everything as the book goes to printing.
Carol Valenzuela has been mentioned several times here, and you note that you believe TB probably killed her. I know you’re concentrating on the agreed-upon murders in your book, but do you give any details on Valenzuela? I don’t remember ever seeing any information on her background, where she was abducted (aside from Vancouver, WA), the autopsy reports, etc. It seems like there must be more to go on here. As Bundy also denied killing Kathy Devine, and it turned out he wasn’t the killer, I’m wondering if there is any evidence to doubt him on Valenzuela.
Second, will your book include much on the abduction of Susan Curtis? I know Bundy gave the very brief last-minute confession, but I always wondered if there was anything more to learn about this crime. I always suspected that, given her young age, Susan may have easily fallen for Bundy posing as campus security.
I’m enjoying the discussion!
U Tube has a lot of this stuff.
Ridgway’s is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UatMeGaUwmk
BTK and GRK just don’t do it for me. They are just serial killers. Ted is some kind of bizarre social phenomena. He simply shouldn’t have happened. He should be thinking about retiring from politics by now. Why did a guy like him do that? It still makes very little sense. The more I know, the less I understand it.
where can you see ridgway confessions?
btk definitely had the most perverse life ive ever read about, he catalogued his perversions… soo crazy… and the pics of him in the girls stuff they are disgusting, sad, funny, and totally fascinating.. i like to think of myself as a regular guy and i just cant understand how another human can be sooo different. thus we have ted bundys and btks and ramirez… i think ted is so polariazing because of the number of girls he killed that really had bright futures, thats why the 100 estimate is so crazy cause he took people that were noticed, also he acted as his own attorney and he was so far out of the mold yet he fit the mold so perfectly in another way
Hi George, and everyone…
From what I’ve heard from the publisher, it looks like towards the end of August, but it could be out a bit sooner. The proofs are on their way back, and I should be finished with all the index entries some time tomorrow. So really, after they receive the index (by email) I’ll personally start looking for it within 2 or 3 weeks. We really are at the door of things.
And thanks for the kind words, George. I have enjoyed being a part oft his as much as anyone, and I hope it will continue for a while longer. I anticipate the line of questioning to change a bit after people read the book, as they comment on it or ask questions about the new stuff and the research connected to it. But no matter, I’ll be willing to stick around as much as I can, which may be close to how I’m doing it now (depending on what new project I’m involved with). So we’ll see.
Talk to everyone soon!
hey guys(and gals)-
I think I can speak for everyone when I say how appreciative we are for these discussions,which you have faithfully attended to .It goes beyond selling a book.That being said ,you owe us a good month of debate after publication.Then we will leave you be.LOL.Keep us up to date on publication date,lots of us have our orders in.Will talk about signifigance of TRB later.
Good luck to ya, Kevin.
In the words of Larry the Cable Guy,
Git ‘er done!
The page proofs are not just “in”, they’re on their way back to the publisher. I’m finishing the index now, and will email it to them in 2 or 3 days. Publication is breathing down our necks now!
Actually, Laura, the Bundy story kinda fell into my lap. That is, I had no intention whatsoever about writing a book about him. But it was when I met Jerry Thompson, and he brought Bundy’s murder kit to Louisville, and then gave me one of the Glad trash bags from Ted’s car, that really grabbed my attention. That’s what produced the hunger to dig deeply into the case and see where it would go from there. Having said that, I’d have to admit, that if one were to write about serial killers, Bundy is probably the one people usually think about first, which can translate into steady sales after publication.
Of course, I didn’t know I’d be discovering new things along the road, but I did, and that’s very good indeed.
Hi Shane–
Typos are funny creatures indeed. Sometimes, no matter how many “eyes” are looking it over, just when you think you’ve conquered them all, up pops another one!
Shane, I really think your gonna like the book.
I think Ted Bundy for me is so interesting because a lot is still unanswered as far as his crimes went. Heck, their are more girls he killed that they can’t even connect him with and probably won’t never be able to! The mystery behind it all and the whole fact with his parents and who is “real” biological dad was, etc…it all goes into my interest with him.
I’m really interested in Gary Ridgway. Gary Ridgway (Green River Killer) went unnoticed for near 25 years like BTK. The weird thing about both of them that psychologist and the like can’t figure out is how they were able to just stop killing after they had started…supposedly a serial killer can’t just quit killing, yet, we know so much more about these 2 men and in fact that they did quit killing and didn’t do it again after they stopped some 10 years before they were ever caught!
Interesting…some how BTK and Gary Ridgway found a way to stop. Watch the confession tapes with Ridgway. He claims he stopped killing because he 1. had a dog to take care of 2. had a descent wife who he generally liked and 3. felt bad about what he had done to so many girls…
Yet, authorities don’t buy into it at all! Their still trying to link him with recent crimes with other women…
That’s exciting that the page proofs are in!
I have that BTK book also, I have all the Bundy books and was waiting on Kevins so saw this in Tesco and bought it. You know what was really odd. Was telling my friend about the BTK book and saying what I read was far worse than Bundy what Psycho (did you see the home made pics of rader in his mask hanging upside down??). She said Laura they are all psychos lol
True, when I first read Bundy stuff I had nightmares but since I got to know the story and read more books I dont. Have to say after reading the John Douglas book I had some awful nightmares.
I wonder if there is somebody out there like BTK or Bundy who has been a serial killer for many years without ever being noticed?? Are they not given as much attention now as they were 30 years ago I dont know. The suffolk strangler is still a weird one for me, the guy killed think 5 girls in 20 or so days and they believe thats the only girls he killed. I read a statement another killer said about him and he said somebody doesnt learn football in a day and score five goals in a week!! This guy reached his peak he didnt just go in a frenzy.
Also a question. There have been a ton of well known serial killers like Gacy,Dhamer, Kemper, Lucas/Toole…what makes Bundy so interesting compared to you all? I realise Kevin you had his stuff and wrote the book but since then have you thought about another does the subject interest you. Its interesting to me 30 years since his crimes and 20 years since his execution that Bundy still holds this fascination that other killers dont. Ramirez and Kemper both alive on death row yet Bundy a killer 20 years dead is the one folk choose to discuss in depth, Id hazard a bet you could get more info and more real evidence from those I mentioned than from the bundy crimes so what makes him so different?
kevin, u said that you were going over your “page proofs” does that mean when i see a typo in a book it is the author just not catching it. i have the book INSIDE THE MIND OF BTK by john douglas and it is full of typos!!!
so ted confessed to more murders in detail i cant wait to compare what was going on in his life with the dates of crimes, he must have been on the prowl all the time. it seems like we have less of these guys these days, i guess dna has made it virtually impossible to continue such a spree.
Keep in mind that people can become confused about dates in the past. Even Bundy did. Perhaps the D. Harry incident happened in the late 60’s rather than the early 70’s – if it’s true.
Yeah, Claire, happy motoring and all that.
Well, Debbie Harry thinks she was a Ted target
– Debbie believes she narrowly escaped becoming a victim of serial killer Ted Bundy by throwing herself out of his car!And do you think it was Ted Bundy?
Deborah Harry: Yes, I do.
The popular urban legend sites all think this is a false rumor.
There is a persistent urban legend that a pre-fame Deborah Harry was accosted in New York by Bundy, managing to escape from his car (in real life, a Volkswagen Beetle). The ever-handy Snopes.com points out that Bundy never visited New York, however.
Howerever, most of the “debunking of the legend” comes from an article written on Snopes. The Snopes article bases this opinion on the fact that there is no record of Ted being in NY in the early 70’s It’s true, Ted never visited NY, but he was in the NY area by the FBI timeline. He was there twice. In fact, he stated his first attempts to murder a woman came in NJ in the late 60’s. It’s hardly a stretch to think that Ted made a clumsy attempt in NY during that Eastern timeframe. Harry says the incident happened in NY in the early 70’s. That doesn’t fit the timeline
01-18-68
(00:00) DISCONTINUED HIS SCHOOLING, TOOK UP TRAVELING.
TRAVELED TO: SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA, DENVER
AND ASPEN, COLORADO, WHERE HE TOOK UP SKIING,
PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA AND ARKANSAS
1969
01-00-70
(00:00) ENROLLED FOR ONE SEMESTER TEMPLE UNIVERSITY,
PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA
Ted was in the East within easy driving distance (for Ted especially) in both ’68 & ’69. He admits himself, he was a serial killer in training during this timeframe. It looks doubtful, but it is possible that Ted was in NYC, cruising for victims in the late 60’s. Did he cruise Debby Harry? Doubtful, but still technically possible.
Probably an urban legend, but there still are quite a few grey areas in Ted’s cruising history
hey everyone-First off,congrats Claire on passing your driving exam.But as to deborah harry,she claimed this N.Y encounter took place in the mid 70’s.The trip TRB describes toN.Y happened in 69.Urban Legend i think.
Claire–
Taking a break (brief!) from the page proofs. Glad you are a legal driver now; hope you get some wheels soon.
Bundy may also have used his ice pick.
Gotta go.
Lol a typo, I passed on the 14th.
The photo’s on the back of Liz’s book are of him and Liz sitting down, Ted and Liz’s daughter, Ted standing by a fence in a suit and the one of him jumping in the woods (the one shown in the 2002 film)
I have a feeling this is Liz’s friend, Angie, in the photo. Either that or some friend in Utah. Ted was not faithful to Liz while he was in Utah.
The MO of the murder of Kim Leach is strikingly different if this is the only time. I think Ted may have used knives earlier in his career, some of his victims were never found so determining they were all strangled or knocked with a crowbar is not the best guess.
To the comment about the Tire Iron at the Issaquah site Kevin, It was in the Riverman. Keppel states it was rather odd to be just lying there. You have to wonder if they had known sooner that a serial killer was loose then they might have found all sorts of stuff along i-90. I mean you’d notice a pair of crutches. Not the usual fly-tip thing to be lying on a road.
The living witness’s of Lake Samm, there must be about 30.
Mentioned in an earlier post was the incident in the hotel with mustache and fake name when he wanted to carry through with an attack for the first time and he failed. This was in New York. I think I mentioned this earlier this year, Debbie Harry always stated she was nearly a victim of Ted Bundy’s. Whether she is mislead or not but knowing he has visited New York, and regularay, it is a possibilty. A famous living witness.
On a lighter note I passed my driving test on the 14. No car yet, so English roads are still safe lol.
Yeah, Ok, Topelius, just razzin’ ya back.
I’d say early 70’s Washington, probably. One of those wild Young Republican house parties. I vaguely recall a series of these pics from those days, but I can’t really remember where they were from. Part of Liz K’s collection, mebbe? Is there a pic like this in “Phantom Prince?
( I read that one from the Library. Should have bought that book it’s going for $100 now, hard to find for $45)
KYGB, was my comment that provocative, heh. Maybe I chose my words wrong, I was pointing out that this Bundy guy looks hilarious in those pants. Miss Washington, however, looks good.
But the real point wasn`t Ted`s clothes. I`d still be thankful if someone could tell when and where was that photo taken. And who`s the hottie there 😉
Well Topelius, Ted’s got some “funny pants” on. But the other clothing?
She’s got a blue botton down collar shirt and jeans. And TRB’s got the sigature turtleneck. i see you young whippersnappers wearing the same stuff in these modern times. Do you mean those unhip rags they are holding? Hey, they are doin’ the dishes!
Bundy is funny. He can look movie star handsome or downright ugly, depending on the photo.
http://static.squidoo.com/resize/squidoo_images/-1/draft_lens2014889module13444222photo_12318783562482743571_99181d6313.jpg
Sorry for the monster link. Just curious: when and where was this photo taken? Any idea how`s the girl? I assume that this photo is a friend picture taken somewhere around early 70`s. Odd to think that this girl has no idea what kind of a monster is standing next to her. Just no clue.
By the way, old people ;), you dressed horribly back in the days, lol.
KYGB–
As always, thanks for the kind words!
Shane–
He got an advance copy from the publisher. Also, Bundy confessed to other murders, and gave the authorities details of those murders. Any comment on Georgann Hawkins was meant to convey just how elaborate his confession was concerning her, but he certainly spoke of other victims as well.
Hi Shane–
I didn’t think you were being weird, I just thought you were being nice. It was a friendly gesture, was received by me as such, and was appreciated. So everything’s cool in that department.
While I can’t comment on that which is new in the book, until the book is out, the information came by way of documents, as well as the personal recollections of the lead detectives in the case. Some of this new info will be eye-opening, as they say, while other things will cause the reader to see things perhaps in a much clearer light than before, and a better understanding of what happened, as I follow Bundy’s trail-of-terror very closely indeed.
And no, Ted’s review of the book has not been published yet.
Shane, Check out Ted Montgomery’s comment at 658. He got an advance copy and has assured all that Kevin’s work will be all that it’s cracked up to be. Most of us can’t wait for the release of the book.
I did want to comment about Sandy’s post at 740. That woman that interviewed OJ and Scott Peterson. If you are close enough to those two to have ’em swipe food off your plate, it’s time to get a new job!
my girlfriend pointed out that it might be weird that i made a dinner offer… i have met most of my friends online… i didnt mean it to be weird, it never occured to me honestly… sorry if so
ANYWAY…
im so glad i came across this board… i was curious, since the book will be out soon, what kind of documents allowed you to uncover new stuff, i think you said that the only murder he confessed to in detail was hawkins.. if so im curious as to what u could have uncovered… also has the review been posted by the guy who got an advance copy? if so, where??
Hello to everybody–
Yes, I expect (but we’ll have to see) that publication will be earlier (and perhaps, much earlier) than the September 21 newly advertised date. We are at the door of publication, to be sure.
Bundy killed Leach in this manner simply because he had a knife available to him. He was nothing like the predatory animal he had been in Washington State, where he meticulously planned and executed his crimes. Here he was little more than a wandering madman.
Just a reminder: While I have the page proofs, most of my time will be (both day and night, with a bit of early morning thrown in to boot!) will be nothing more than reading the proofs and adding page numbers to the index. So if I don’t respond right away to a question or comment, that’s why.
Hi everyone
Now that you have the page proofs Kevin, looks like we are now at the final stages of the book publishing process. Would that mean that the book may get a earlier release date than September? Sorry if i am jumping the gun.
With reference to the Kim Leach murder, would you say that Bundy used a knife just so that the police authorities would not be able to tie him to the crime? I am guessing that by that period in time in Florida, he was hanging on to the last threads of stability and considering he possibly never committed a murder in this way before, it could have been used as an excuse to explain the murder away from him. If i recall from TOLW, the unofficial conclusion was that Kim had her throat slashed from behind. It was such a horrible crime and it shows just how sick and evil Ted really was.
I also enjoyed the Rule book.But it was only the second “ted’ book I had read.(M+W being the first).As such I enjoyed her rather personal account in contrast with the former,more journalistic work.I had yet to read Keppel,or M+A.I have to say her work suffers in comparison,largely because it is colored by exaggerated emotion towards an acquaintance-literary jackpot.(they were not exactly best friends as the publisher would have you believe.).But dont get me wrong,Iam not giving up my copy either.
Hi Shane–
No, Bundy killed the Leach girl with a knife, which was not his usual MO. Huntington, WV is east of Louisville, about 4 hours away, I believe. I’ve made the drive a number of times on my way to Richmond, VA, and to that area along the east coast, but it’s been awhile, so I’m guessing a bit as to the time between my home and yours.
Thanks for the dinner offer, but you wouldn’t have to go to that expense, as I would feel a bit guilty if you did, lol!
I like Ann Rule, and I like her work. I like her book on Ted Bundy, but only to a degree. For me (and this is only my personal opinion) there’s too much Ann Rule in the book, if that makes any sense, and as such, it’s a tad distracting. Of course, I own a copy, and I intend to hold on to mine, so that says something as well, doesn’t it?
Take care,
Kevin
i bought a documentary at wal-mart a couple weeks ago and there was a true crime writer on there named kirk gill (i think) and he said that somewhere ted said that he killed kim leach by “drowning” her in the mud… can that be substantiated? also louisville is right across the line from huntington WV correct? because that is where i live and i think it would be an honor to take you out to a congratulatory dinner!! i have ordered your book along with the others!! im curious as o what your opinion is of ann rules’ TSBM? it seems not to get the credit on here but outside of buffs like us it seems to be the definitive work…?? we all look forward so much kevin. i hope to pick your brain someday!!
The page proofs have arrived!!!!!!!!!
Hi KYGB–
The tapes in transcript form are available, and I quote from them liberally in the book. It is my understanding that the notes were allowed, and in fact, I located some of these notes that were entered into the record. The problem with the tapes is that they were stopped and started again, and as such, did not contain a complete and sequential conversations with Bundy. That’s problematic, as it can appear to a jury (and to everyone) that the detectives were manipulating what could be recorded, and Cowart wasn’t going to allow this. But it didn’t matter, as Bundy, who’d already been informed of his rights, was talking away, and the investigators had every right to record by hand his “confessions” as he uttered them. Also, many depositions were taken (including ones taken by Bundy, as he acted as his own attorney!) and much of the info came out at this time.
FYI: I don’t talk about this in the book, but I found it absolutely unbelievable that the authorities were using substandard recording devices. I found in some of the depositions how difficult it was to hear certain portions of the tape, and how it took the detectives sometimes two or three times listening to it to even determine what Bundy was saying; and that piecing it together had to be accomplished by listening closely to the tapes, while remembering what they heard Ted say as they were recording the sessions.
The crowbar is still in the possession of Judge Stewart Hanson (or his estate, since his recent death) and who knows were it will travel to next. The handcuffs may be with the Hanson estate as well, I’m just not sure about them. The pantyhose mask went to Florida (hand-delivered by Jerry Thompson) for the Chi Omega trial (where it was disallowed as a comparison item for the pantyhose mask Bundy made for the Florida murders) and I don’t believe it ever made its way back to Utah. Everything else, including the pubic and head hairs from a number of Bundy victims, still in their FBI evidence tins, came to Louisville with Thompson. As an aside, I remember thinking how extremely odd it was seeing the “remains” of some of Ted’s victims (I know who they are, but I’m not going to name them out of respect for the families) in these little tins on my dining room table. Pictures of these tins, however, will no doubt be in the book, as they were in the “Snitch” article published in the summer of 2005.
Kevin, that’s great information. I thought Cowart tossed out both the tapes AND the notes on those interviews in Pensacola. What is the status on the tapes made in Pensacola? Is there any way they will ever see the light of day?
I wondered about something else that goes back to the top of the page. In that little treasure trove of evidence that Jerry Thompson brought to you in Louisville, I didn’t notice the tire iron that was present in Utah. Was it present in the photo, but obscured? Or was it missing?
Hi Courtney,
Yes, it is a small world! When I was in my early 20’s (and still living at home with my parents while going to school) I used to wave at an older gentleman who lived on our street and who always seemed to be doing something in his yard. He was a nice guy (a retired doctor) and I’d often roll down my window in my car and stop and exchange a few words with him; nothing “deep”, of course. Well, one day, I picked up the newspaper to scan the obits, and sadly, he was in there. But I couldn’t believe what I was reading about the guy: For six months during WW2 , he was General George Patton’s personal doctor, and was relieved of his duties only after being wounded! Oh, how I wish I would have known that prior to his passing. Anyway, you just never know…
Okay, about the tapes: It is my understanding that Keppel got everything on tape, although Ted would sometimes whisper so the guards couldn’t hear him speaking. However, the marathon sessions conducted in Florida by detectives Norman Chapman, Don Patchen, and Steve Bodiford, did have their own set of problems when it came to making audio recordings; first from having to turn the recorder off at Bundy’s request which led to terrible legal ramifications for the prosecution, to using a really awful machine that couldn’t do the job properly in the first place. This fiasco, of course, resulted in the tapes being disallowed for the trials. Even so, the detectives had the ability to testify as to what Ted had said to them, they had their notes from the sessions, and the mountain of evidence against Bundy went forward as it should have.
Take care,
Kevin
Hey Kevin,
I’m not sure where I read this but: I heard that Bob Keppel had said Bundy had confessed a lot more to him then what was on those confession tapes. Do you know anything about this? In fact, I think i read (I may be recalling this wrong) but he had to turn the confession tapes off and Bundy would tell him more…?
Interesting thing happened today. I was talking to a good friend of mine he’s in his upper 60’s along with his wife and they moved here from Florida about 5 years ago. He said his wife was and still is best friends with one of the women that was in the Chi Omega house the very night Ted attacked the women! She was across the hall in another room and Ted never entered her room….small world, huh?!