1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer

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It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.

Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.

Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?

The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.


Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)

Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.

ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?

I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.

From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.

Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.

The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?

The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.

But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.

Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?

Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.

You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?

They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.

I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?

They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.

Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way

How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?

Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.

However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.

Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.

* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.

Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:

On this day..

Possibly related executions:

8,544 thoughts on “1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer”

  1. Hi, Richard

    Yes, I admit – I used to underestimate things like prison Bundy sketches – it is due to pure anger.

    Bundy – with so much blood on his hands – “housed”, fed, bored enough to draw sketches and pictures – that plays on my nerves a lot!

    But I must add I had opportunity to take a look at some of this “masterpieces” – and I found them as disgusting and creepy as Bundy himself.

  2. On the draft question … Bundy himself answered it in the July 1979 “Saga” magazine article, “Shadow of a Doubt.” He said “I avoided the Vietnam draft by the skin of my teeth and a fortuitously broken ankle.”

    Barry in 1739 you said “I know it cudnt be true as bundy only had very basic paintings skills at the very least and didnt really paint much while in prison.” How do you know this?

    It is believed that while in prison Bundy did sketches and paintings in collaboration with his friend Bobby Lewis. He may have done some sketches on his own. Bundy’s wife has some. Others I have.

    The original article about the Jackson/Welch painting appeared in:

    http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1996-05-23/news/was-ted-bundy-framed/

    It is unlikely that Ted Bundy did any of these (or the Diamond one).

    In 1741 Bart says that any Bundy art is irrelevant. I beg to differ. Art is a window to the soul. The sketch his wife has that I mention in my comment on the site referenced in 1739 is a good example. It depicts a couple embracing. She his touching him and her eyes show her to be loving. He however has dark vacuous eyes and his arms trail off into scribbles, so he’s not really touching her. It shows that in this relationship he’s really not there. I think it expresses a great deal about his feelings toward women.

  3. Hi Topelius–

    No, the country was under a lottery system, and depending on the number you had, it either pushed you closer to being drafted, or kept the U.S. Army at bay fore awhile. Also, you could (for a time) be exempt from the draft with a college deferment, meaning, you could forgo serving in the military until school was completed. And again, if you had some type of physical reason that would prevent you from serving, you could escape it altogether.

    On a personal note, I too had to carry a draft card, but because it was towards the end of the war, I only had a couple of years where they could have called me up for service during that time. My friend, however, who just as easily could have served along side me in a rifle platoon (he too was in good shape) had a permanent deferment due to having a small pin placed in his foot from a motorcycle accident a couple years before we had to register for the draft. So he was completely safe, and I was not, LOL! It was a source of humor for the both of us.

    I also know a fellow who was planning to run to Canada to escape the draft, and through the years, I have teased him about that. What he doesn’t know is how terrible my opinion is concerning his desire to do that. If he knew how I really felt about such things, we would no longer be friends.

  4. Hi Topelius

    You touched extremely interesing subject.
    I currenly have no knowledge on enlisting to US. Army to fight in Vietnam – but I recall from studying books on Bundy – that he has some specific interest in Vietnam War.

    For example – as he first met Liz Kendall in 1969, he was bull-shitting her that he is the process of writing book on Vietnam War.
    Also in early 70s as “rising Republican star” Bundy also used to frequently refer to Vietnam War (he was just defending “law & order”, against “anarchy” – so probably he wasn’t against Vietnam War).

    And another example – years later – as Death Rowe prisoner and murder story-teller – trying to explains his murders and having no remorses – he used to compare himself to “soldier, like in Vietman” who doesnt think much about killing acts.

    This guy reall should have gone to Vietnam War and been shot immediately.

  5. Howdy ho.

    Didn`t the US army draft every male 18-years-old or older to fight Viet Cong? This clearly wasn`t the case with Bundy, how come?

    Wikipedia didn`t help me out with this. And Kevin`s book didn`t dig on this subject either.

    Thank you for the answers, appreciate it!

  6. Hi Kevin,

    I once read somewhere that Bundy was having sex with bodies advanced in decay. Maybe this sorce was inreliable.

    On the other hand I once read somewhere else that Bundy “felt sorry” that the decay process is progressing was fast so he didn’t have enough time to do these things.

    That might be why hist favourite victims condition was “coma”.
    Maybe I read it in “Conversational with killer” – I dont remember now.

  7. Bart–

    I know (and state in my book) that Bundy having sex with the dead is an established fact. But I did not, and have not inferred that he had sex with a body in a high state of decay. he held on to bodies for awhile, did things with them, and then dumped them at the locations where they were found. He also sometimes returned to the site of a recently murdered victim, and may have had activity with the body in some way, or considered just being at the site enough sexual stimulation. But doing things with a body in an advanced state of decay? I don’t think so.

  8. Hi Bart–

    Everything I deemed important, I have in my book. As to Bundy passing along some sexual disease, who knows? But I doubt he wore a condom when involved with a victim. I just don’t believe he would have considered it important.

    And no, nothing is wrong on my end, and I did respond to the only post you’ve had at this site (after the original one).

    Take care,

    Kevin

  9. My addition to what I said above.

    Bundy was – as we know – necrophile

    He has no problem in sexually abusing corpeses – being even in advanced stage of decay.

    I have no medical knowledge on this topic – but I don’t think this is “healthy” – no to mention how pervert mental state such an action manifests.

    Then – he used return to his Liz and “Tina”, slept with his woman, played with his “stepdaughter”.

    Did he take any precautions (condoms) as to not transmit any disease on the ones he probably frankly somehow “cared for”?

    Specially as Liz and Tin (plus his family back in Tacoma) were his strongest link to normal life.

  10. It is of course my personal opinion – not to harm anybody here – but these revelations about Bundy’s paintings, drawings and his other prison “art work” seem to me so out off topic and so not interesting at all.

    This guy should have been sent immediately to electric chair as soon as as his Florida second trial ended with death penalty – and what is much more interesting – is how played his somewhat weird cat and mouse games aimed at gaining execution delays – one after another – which let him spend time on “art”.

    I, like Kevin, have interested in analyzing his behaviour on murder path, speculating about his atrocities, researching extent of his deprivation.

    Kevin, you have stopped referring to my posts – did I touch you somehow? If did this – I kindly apologize.

    I have another question for you, for us.

    As we all know – Bundy has a girlfriend for 6 years – and somehow he tried to care for her – and for her daughter as well.

    He naturally maintained normal sexual relationship to her over these years. At the same time – he happened to have other normal lovers.
    And of course he sexually abused and killed dozens of girls.

    I know his victims never were prostitutes, but – oppositely – good girls having good well-established long-term relationships with their boyfriends and husbands.

    But some of them – with all respect to them as victims – were not just “angels of innocence”

    Specially it was time of flower-power and sexual freedom.

    I know the mid-70s were not era of AIDS – but sex-transmitted disease always existed.

    Is it possible Bundy used condoms when dealing with his victims (specially he with time is said to prefer anal sex which is specially risky when conducted on stranger with no condoms)

    Did he even think about it?
    About his health, about possibility of infecting sexually-transmitted disease on Liz Kendall?

    He always seemed to be person almost obsessed with his good looks, his excellent way of dressing.

    He did exercises (even in prison), he practiced numerous sports – both summer and winter.

    So did he care for such things?

    Do you have any access to medical doctors archive describing state of Bundy’s health – during and after his bloody madness?

    Anne Rule claimed in her book that in 80s – when incarcerated- Bundy was in perfect health and she was unhappy that – he is approaching death,being so healthy man.

    But she seems to be so “enchanted” by him – so not all of her words should be taken seriously.

  11. Hi Barry–

    I have no knowledge concerning these, but Richard Duffus might. Richard, if you’re out there, can you help Barry out here? Thanks!

  12. Hi Kevin and all

    Hey kevin i came across this site where a person had 2 paintings one of micheal jackson that were signed with the name Bundy. She is trying to speculate if they were done by Ted Bundy. I know it cudnt be true as bundy only had very basic paintings skills at the very least and didnt really paint much while in prison.

    Well kevin i guess its better for u to sum it up. So take a look at them here
    http://www.deuceofclubs.com/randumb/bundy/index.html

    P.S. Its a bit funny that the signature Bundy on the painting is quite similiar to teds signature if im not mistaken.

  13. Hi Gwen–

    Anyone out there wanting to emulate Theodore Bundy does not have the internal make up to do the diabolical things he did. Those who do have that make up (and they are rare) couldn’t give two flips about Ted Bundy as some type of light house one is heading towards, as it were. They are so immersed in becoming what they’re becoming (what is driving them, actually) that little else matters, and this includes comparisons to other killers.

    take care,

    Kevin

  14. I am scared.. I watched the movie and this ted due freaked me out. Gees that makes me sit here and think of all the people out there with sick minds that are trying to be like him. I cant see how anyone could sit there and listening to all those things I feel so sorry for Those People.. Thanks
    Gwen

  15. My correction to this sentence:

    Maybe he was more focused at studing law – as in the previous months he was occupied with something for law abiding activity?

    It should of course be:

    Maybe he was more focused on studing law – as in the previous months he was occupied with something very far from law abiding activity?

  16. Hi Kevin,

    Yes – I am very sorry – I am not English native speaker and I have “vocabulary” trouble as I am not using English on daily basis.

    I never meant to disrespect someone so deeply disrespected before – like Debbie Kent and other Bundy’s victims.

    I am strongly by THEIR side – never by the villain;s side.

    Unfortunately, when studying Bundy – we sometime cant avoid to touch subject of victims slightly harshly (maybe again bad wording? )

    So now leave poor Debbie Kent in peace – and let’s debate on what made Bundy stop his killing for over 2 months between early November 1974 and early January 1975?

    Did he really stop? Or he committed some unsolved and never known deeds?

    Maybe Christmas time and perspective of Liz coming to spend time with him and her parents – calmed him down?
    Maybe he was more focused at studing law – as in the previous months he was occupied with something for law abiding activity?

    He was at least trying to be human being for some moments in his life.

    I personally think he was during the “never again” period plus he was scared of being apprehended for what he did that horrible autumn of 1974 in Utah.

    Now I gotta go to work so see you all in the evening (my Central European time).

    See you all..
    And thanks for all comments

    bart

  17. Bart–

    Everything I believe about Ted Bundy I have stated in my book. Also, there are things we may not know for a certainty about Ted bundy or the case, and of course, it’s okay to wonder about certain things, how they came about, etc. However, we must be very careful about speculating, as it gets a person into an area where truth does not dwell, and in these areas, we can go on forever speculating and still not come to the truth or real answers. We need to remember this.

    Also, you stated the following: “Kevin suggests in his book – Bundy probably took Debbie Kent body home to Salt Lake City – and feasted on her during night.” First, I never used the word ‘feasted’, nor would I. In this country, to say such a thing in the context of what happened to Debbie, would be very disrespectful. I understand that as a newcomer to the United States, you don’t understand these things pertaining to how we use the language, so I wanted to point this out to you.

    And no, there is no way to know what transpired with Debbie Kent after Bundy had her, but does it really matter, given what we know about him?

    Anyway, Bart, I’m glad you found this site!

    Take care,

    Kevin

  18. Hi, Kevin and all folks

    Thank you very much for introducing me into this dark discussion.

    As for my speculation as why Bundy re-entered the play in Viewmont High School – yes, you are probably right – you are an expert.

    Certainly, Bundy might have fantasized about double abduction at one time – but – even to him – it might look too daring.

    But we should remember he claimed he DID deal with with two or even three bodies (corpses) at one time – back in Washington area – either making sick sex to them – or just disposing bodies (he probably took and dumped bodies of Ott and Naslund altogether at one time.
    But it was under completely different conditions.

    I only have certain impression – when reading about what happened on that memorable evening November 8 1974 both in Murray and Bountiful – I feel that Bundy was somewhat disappointed (how terribly it sounds for normal a person) with his final victim that night.

    He lost opportunity to abduct very attractive Carol DaRonch – then he abandoned equally attractive drama teacher at Viewmont Highschool in Bountiful – so he ultimately took “what was currently available” that is poor Debbie Kent (I hope her soul excuses my language).

    I think he was not happy with ‘standard’ she represented.
    I have a photo of Debbie Kent – and found her not as strikingly attractive as other Bundy victims – she was rather average girl from neighborhood.

    Do you have any 100 % certain knowledge as to how long he played his sick games with Debbie Kent’s body (or corpse)?

    Kevin suggests in his book – Bundy probably took Debbie Kent body home to Salt Lake City – and feasted on her during night.

    And in the meantime – around 11:00 pm – he called his girlfriend Liz in Seattle , probably having corpse within his reach.

    I might be wrong – but I feel different way.

    Excuse my language again – I am unwillingly offending those poor human beings lost decades ago, but in my opinion Bundy divided his victims into two groups:

    1) “one night stands” – kind a “thrash” to him – just to bludgeon & rape – and to dump somewhere (excellent example is the murder of hitchhiker in Utah on night 2/3 September 1974 that Kevin emphasized in his book)

    2) “the precious ones” – the ones he would take home for days & night to “celebrate” – or have them ‘secured’ in a remote area – to take “advantage” of revisiting (Washigton girl and Mellisa Smith is an example of such victims).

    It is only my speculation – but Bundy was probably disappointed with Debby Kent – and soon after sex & murder he dumped her corpse somewhere (by the way never to be found – aside from this knee fragment).

    So I supposed that around 11 pm, when calling Liz in Seatlle – he was already “done” with Debbie.

    Dissapointed with his victim and intercourse with her, tired of hectic and nervous day, terrified of what he did (both DaRonch attempted abduction and Debbie “successful” abduction in front of hundreds of people), panicked of being detected and caught – he probably promised to himself “never again” and called Liz to build himself quick bridge to “law abiding” version of his life.

    Remember that – his next murders happened in January 1975 – so as for his killing Utah frenzy – over 2 months of abstinence looks like quite a lot of time for Bundy.
    Plus remember, he relocated his crimes to Colorado.

    It was similar like after Like Sam events – when he managed to control himself for two months. Then he moved to Utah.

    OK, that’s all from me for today.
    I am looking forward to your comments.

    BTW – we all should control our Bundy hobby – and never let it overdosed.

    best regards
    Bart

  19. Hello all! I am adding the response I gave Bart by way of e-mail. He mentioned he’d be posting here the same info he had sent me, so in the interest of keeping everyone here at Executed Today informed, I’m passing it along to you.

    And thanks, Bart, for taking the time to inquire about this, as it’s a welcome addition to this site.

    Hi Bart,

    That’s a very interesting thought, Bart. Who knows what Bundy was thinking at the time. However, it does seem reasonable to me that, given the size of the crowd, Bundy’s returning inside the school was probably about putting some time between when Debbie left and when he left, as he realized just how many people did see him that evening. Remember too, that by this time Bundy understood the mistakes he had made at Lake Sam, and he was probably attempting to be extra careful. Having said that, if Bundy could have gotten two women that night, he may have done so; but maybe not, as most of his abductions were one victim at a time. But it is an interesting thought, Bart.

    Take care,

    Kevin

  20. Hi, Kevin and all

    I have discovered this thread recently and I found it great. Honestly, I am in the middle in reading all post – and it takes time as this thread is longer than book.

    I have been studying (as a layman not professional unfortunately) Ted Bundy cases for a long time – reading books, essays and articles on this – for almost decade now 🙂

    I don’t even remember my first ‘approach’ on Bundy – so long ago that happened.

    First, I want to congratulate Kevin on his book.
    I didn’t expect someone would pick this topic these years – as it seemed everything was written, disccused and done – back in 70s and 80s, early 90s. It was not – It turns down in Kevin’s book.

    But let’s go to the point:
    I am referring to the situation in Bountiful, Viewmont High School on November 8, 1974.

    As we “all” (Bundy cases fanatics) know – this very evening Bundy failed with Carol da Ronch in Murray – then he travelled to Bountiful – and attended school play.

    It is where – he abducted teenager Debby Kent who left school play before it ended.
    Before this, he had made numerous attempts to “pick up” Raelynne Shepard, young drama teacher.
    Plus there was probably another woman who talked briefly to Bundy on parking lot.
    Not to mention – what I know from this forum – Native American girl who – in turned – wanted herself to “pick up” Bundy – but he showed no interest in her at all (God thankfully).

    And now let’s go to Kevin’s assumption made in his book:

    His discovery was that ‘given the outward physical appearance Bundy presented just prior to Debbie Kent leaving the building, and how he looked moments later’ – Bundy caught Debbie, “secured” her in his car – and re-entered the play.
    He left ultimately only when Raelynne Shepard husband,
    alarmed by his wife, started looking at bizarre stranger.

    Why did Bundy re-enter the school play?

    Kevin wrote in his book:
    “Once he was back inside the theater he would be seen by numerous people in that same section, and the longer he stayed, the better it would look for him. That way he couldn’t possibly have had anything to do with the missing Debra Kent, as she left the school before he did. In his mind, the police would not view him as a suspect.”

    My personal remark to this is the following:

    Bundy often acted extremely irrationally and boldly to fulfill his pervert desires. Lake Sam double abduction of Ott and Naslund is an excellent example of this style.
    Plus as we “all” know – with time – Bundy wanted to kill more and more. On that night November 8, 1974 – he was irritated because of his failure with Carol DaRonch.

    So maybe – he re-entered Viemont Highschool play not for reinforce his “alibi”, but to CATCH YET ANOTHER WOMAN?

    Maybe he was thinking about Raelynne Shepard – as – it seemed – he was very attracted to her?

    Maybe he wanted to leave Bountiful – having two fresh and warm bodies in his VW bug?

    Tell me please – what do you think about this?

    Best regards
    Bart

  22. Minor point here. Our little Teddy was born in 1946, not ’42. Matters of paternity were just as big a deal in ’46, but we wouldn’t want Ted to become a suspect in murders committed in ’45, would we?

    The SKC site is back up after several days on the blink.

  23. Great, Richard! My daughter is a lefty – so I suppose we will have to suffer the shame of having our name dragged through the press too!

  25. I know why he did it! He was left-handed. Those aggravating twist ties drove him to it! That’s why he strangled them. 🙂

  26. Hi Fiz,

    You know, Bundy was strange from the time of his early childhood, as can be seen by his aunt’s story of having kitchen knives placed, pointing at her,around her bed. That Bundy did that shows disturbance even at an early age. As such, much of his later activity was a continuation of said disturbance, and we all know where he was ultimately headed. Had the Bundy family made a lot of money (let’s say Johnny was a lawyer) ted still would have had the very same psychopathology which was a part of his make up which transformed him into the killer we are still discussing today. And this was my point. So, in my opinion, it didn’t matter what Johnny did or didn’t do, what transpired between him and his siblings, or even how much money the family had or didn’t have. it all had to do with what was in Bundy, and, just how did he develop into the monster he became. As such, I just can’t believe a very small period in his life where he MAY have been apart from his mother, had anything to do with the diabolical person he became. And remember, many, many people have been born bastards, and in each case, it’s a terrible thing. All children need to be and feel loved. But almost everyone rises above it, and Ted Bundy certainly had a lot of love in his home. No, the reasons for Ted’s flight into murder and all the terrible things he did, are no doubt a result of factors we will never know. But I certainly don’t believe it’s because of a time of separation.

  27. Kevin, I think Claudia does have something. In 1942 if you had been born a bastard, the world offered you an extremely cold welcome, and yes, that would extend to the baby itself. Anyone can feed a baby and change it , but to do so without love? Ted was different from his siblings in many ways. I believe the Cowell house was not the sort of place any of the rest of us have known as children. Also, Ted knew very well that Johnny Bundy was not his father, unlike the rest of his siblings. He may have been treated no differently from any of his siblings, but he knew he was different (and how!) and he was extremely critical of the way Johnny provided for his family. He wanted his uncle as his father and to live in different world.

  28. The SK Central picture gallery linked to several times in this thread, the one that has those otherwise unseen and unavaliable pictures of Ted with his daughter and such, seems to have disappeared.

    I read the newspaper article mentioned in post #1697 above. Always interesting to read quotes from William Hagmaier. But one thing caught my attention. The writer describes Bundy’s relationship with his mother as “Superficial”. I wonder what he meant by that? Was it simply a refence to Ted, both angry at his illegitimate birth and as a sociopath unable to form dep attachments? Or was Louise, in some way, unable to relate to her first son?

  29. Hi Claudia-

    Yes, that is the same VW, and they’re displaying it with the passenger seat out, just as Bundy had it when hunting for victims. Of course, the passenger seat may have already been taken out of the car, and is resting in the hands of some other person or institution.

    Well, if Ted was left for any period in his infancy, then he most certainly received the proper care and nurturing from those present at the institution. And this is why I personally place very little blame on this aspect of his life contributing to his psychopathology.

  30. Hi kesley–

    Not really. He had that older model truck parked at his 565 First avenue residence, but I don’t think it was always running. So I would say he used the VW only.

  31. Kevin, I absolutely agree that we may never fully understand what factors contributed to making Ted the person he was. I certainly don’t believe that it can be attributed simply to exposure to pornography, or separation from a parent in infancy, or rejection from a girlfirend–nor do I believe that any of these factors excuse his behavior in any way. That said, I do believe that a lengthy period without appropriate nurturing in infancy is likely to affect a human being’s later social development in a negative way. There are many psychological studies that support the theory that babies need nurturing and physical human contact for healthy development. It doesn’t have to be provided by a mother, and its absence won’t necessarily turn a child into a serial killer, but I wouldn’t discount a lack of appropriate nurturing in infancy as a factor in later abnormal social development.

    Off to see the VW Bug on display this weekend! I assume this is the Utah car, is it not?

  32. Is there any evidence out there that Ted drove a different vehicle at any time during his days around Salt Lake City?

  33. In thinking about the possible links to Bundy’s psychopathology, please keep in mind the literally hundreds of thousands of children orphaned at or near infancy whose parents were killed either by war, or some other terrible act, but who still managed to grow up to be normal, or otherwise productive human beings. Also, far more psychological development takes place during the cognitive stage of a child, as he/she interacts with those around them, so an infant being provided the up close and personal care needed to keep one healthy and alive, will be having many of its needs meet, despite the lack of “bonding” one receives from the natural mother.

    Society may never know what caused Theodore Bundy to become what he became. However, many infants and children who have lived in, experienced, and otherwise grown up in terrible home environments, have often turned out to be well adjusted adults. And, even those who have developed behavior and other life long problems from the aforementioned trauma, have rarely turned out to be someone as diabolical as Ted Bundy.

    Now, I have said all of that to say this: I personally can’t bring myself to believe that Bundy’s time of separation from his mother during a rather small period in his infancy could have ANYTHING to do with what actually transformed him into the serial killer he became. Remember, Ted’s childhood was fairly average, filled with TWO parents present in the home, with male and female siblings who interacted with him in a normal and loving way. As such, his home life was and is far better than many people have it today. So what shall we say of those psychological factors?

    Again, I believe that what ever happened to make Ted Bundy the way he was is so beyond the factors of home life, or what pornography he viewed as a small boy, or even what he witnessed out of his grandfather (if anything!), and we may never really understand why?

    Of course, speculation is always available to us, but if we are to go down that road, let us go down (at least) a road supplying us with more evidence.

  34. Regarding the discussion about Ted’s early infancy, Ann Rule mentions this in TSBM. If memory serves me correctly, it’s in one of her afterwords, perhaps in the most recent (2008?) edition. I believe it was a fairly lengthy period of time, as well–perhaps several months?–that Rule mentioned. And I do think this could possibly have an effect on his later psychological development, depending, of course, on the quality of nurturing he received during this time period.

  36. Oh brother!!!

    Make that: “And after corresponding with LORRAINE…”!

  37. No problem, Richard. You know, even though the book has been published, I believe I’ll always be very interested in talking with folks who are truly connected with the case. And really, you can’t get more connected than speaking with a victim of Ted Bundy’s only moments before she disappears. And what’s interesting in this particular case, I mention in my book the possibility of Bundy seeing Lorraine (even perhaps tracking her) just prior to spotting Kathy Parks. And after corresponding with Kathy, I believe that’s exactly what happened.

    I too look forward to her posts.

  38. Yeah Kevin. Thanks a lot for getting that done. Looking forward to reading her replies.

    Barry, that pic was taken at a prison, most likely at FSP in Raiford. They allow inmates to take those shots to send to friends and family.

  39. Thanks, Kevin, for making available the opportunity to talk with Lorraine. It is most appreciated. I look forward to her posts.

  41. A quick note: Lorraine Fargo, the last person to speak with Kathy Parks before Ted Bundy abducted and murdered her, has agreed to answer some of your questions here at Executed Today. I did not have a chance to interview her prior to the publication of my book, but we have been exchanging e-mails for awhile now, and I mention her and write about the conversation she had with Kathy Parks on p. 29 of my book. She is a very nice lady, and as can be expected, she still carries pain stemming from the incident now so long ago.

    Even so, she is willing to talk about that night, and from what she has thus far told me, you will find it most interesting indeed. So when she starts posting here, feel free to ask her questions, but keep said questions focused on her experiences from that period, and avoid asking her personal questions pertaining to her life today.

    Thanks,

    Kevin

  42. Hi, my name is Amber, I’m a sophmore in high school at Pansophia academy. I’m doing a report on an Ted Bundy. And I was just woundering if anyone could help me out and tell me what he did and what went on in court, or if you have any information about him that could help me out. My report is due on Wednesday March 24, 2010. If you could help me out in anyway I would be very greatful. To contact me and give me information just e mail me at akwellington_13@yahoo.com

    Thank you to anyone and everyone that helps me out.

  43. In response to Topileus question: –

    I dont think Bundy would have matched his success in the 70s if he started killing recently. It would depend on his MO though. Since Bundy was at times very bold in his approach when it came to approaching his victims, the likes of CCTV, Community Support Officers and more importantly people now being more aware about serial killers than they were 30 years ago, would limit his chances of killing and getting away with it. Bundy had alot of benefits when it came to committing his murders which relate to himself (his charm, looks, status) and the law enforcement (early stages in development in catching serial killers) which today would not have worked in his favour.

  44. I totally agree, Monica. I doubt any of the remaining Cowells will ever speak out, but I do remember from Ann Rule’s book that the whole family particularly wanted to get Louise and the young Ted away from home. I’d put money on Grandpa Sam being Ted’s father as well.

  45. Thanks for that, Richard!

    Yes, on the article that i came across, it said the same thing: that it would have affected his ability to connect with others, to emotionally bond with them, and to feel empathy, etc.

    As to whether that particular incident (if that is true) was the deciding factor to him becoming a sociopath, who can say? but we do know that he was displaying antisocial behaviour, as early as age three, with the knives incident.

    Of course this is all just speculation, but perhaps he was damaged irrevocably by that incident, and then damaged even further by his home environment: we know that his grandfather was brutal and cruel, and that his grandmother was agorophobic and depressed, and would receive electric shock treatment for this. Ted later claimed, in the interview between himself and dobson, that there was nothing untoward in his upbringing, that his childhood was happy. I don’t believe that at all! I think a lot more things went on inside that home, things that we will never know.

  46. My understanding is that Ted’s mom went back to Philadelphia for a few weeks to smooth things over for his arrival. During that time he was left in the care of the home for unwed mothers.

    We had an interesting online discussion years ago about the effect this had on him. I think the consensus became that it affected his ability to connect with people since those early days are when a baby should bond with its mother. So it probably contributed to his becoming a sociopath. But I doubt it would have been the primary or deciding factor.

  47. Kevin,
    Well, it is certainly worth a read!

    Of course it is true that others who have had traumatic events happen to them in childhood, did not become sociopath’s as a result (on the contrary, many are very nice people and have more empathy than most, as a consequence.) But, it appears that what happens to a child in “early infancy” is the key here, and that neglect or abandonment occurring at this time (whether perceived or actual, and to what degree) could be the deciding factor in a child tending toward sociopathic behaviour. And, it seems, that once the damage is done (at such a crucial moment in a child’s development) that it cannot be undone. That is why the sociopath cannot be cured.

    I don’t recall reading the story of Ted being abandoned (or neglected) in early infancy, in any of the books that have previously been mentioned on this site (though i have not read them all), but i did come across a page on psychology, on the internet that mentioned it, though where they got this information from, i don’t know.

    Anyway, it is an interesting thought. And if it is true, perhaps that is where the seeds of his condition were planted.

  48. Monica–
    I’m not sure about Ted being left by his mother for a time. I kinda doubt it, but even if it’s true, I personally don’t think that particular incident would cause him to adopt a psychopathic lifestyle. Too many people have had that and a lot more happen to them, and they still turned out to be normal, productive individuals.

    I have a signed copy of Keppel’s “Signature Killers”, but I have only scanned it.

  49. No probs!

    One book that hasn’t been spoken about on this thread, is “Signature killers” (another book by Robert Keppel, with William J. Birnes.) Have you yourself read that one, Kevin, or any of the other poster’s?

    It explores the patterns and motives of other notorious serial killers, but has some interesting analysis on Ted Bundy himself and the psychology behind his crimes. Although not an easy read at times, i would say it is a must have to add to your collection of books on TB. Very good, indeed! and a real eye-opener to the dangers out there, the kinds of ruses these diabolical characters use on their intended victims, and just how important is is, as a parent, to get it right during childhood (and in particular, early infancy.) Which leads me to ask this question, Kevin:

    Is it a FACT that Ted was abandoned in early infancy for a period (or left alone without the presence of his mother for a time?) If so, for how long? and what bearing do you think it had on Ted becoming a sociopath?

  50. Hi Topelius —

    First, it’s very difficult to solve motiveless crimes such as serial murder, because it’s usually a stranger killing strangers. As such, unless you leave evidence behind (and in the early years Bundy didn’t) it would still be hard to catch the individual. So it depends on just what the killer leaves behind.

    In the case of Ted Bundy, I believe if he were just starting his career of murder, he would take into account what the authorities had at their disposal in evidence gathering, and he would act accordingly. That is, he would do everything in his power to avoid capture. But of one thing I’m certain: There is no way he would have decided not to kill based on what the police might find out through their investigation.

    He loved killing too much to stop.

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