1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer

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It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.

Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.

Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?

The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.


Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)

Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.

ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?

I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.

From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.

Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.

The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?

The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.

But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.

Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?

Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.

You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?

They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.

I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?

They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.

Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way

How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?

Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.

However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.

Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.

* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.

Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:

On this day..

Possibly related executions:

8,544 thoughts on “1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer”

  2. PS–Sorry, just reread Lorraine’s account of the library above and see she specified that the man was not wearing a cast or sling. Please ignore that from above!

  3. Dear Lorraine–I don’t know if you’re still interacting with this webpage, but thanks so much for sharing your memories of Kathy Parks–I know it must be difficult.

    You mention that Kathy was very conscientious, which made me think about the Bundy’s “third-person confession” referring to Kathy’s abduction. I think this “confession” is almost entirely false, but Bundy speculated that the murderer approached Kathy in the cafeteria and convinced her to go for a drink with him (which required getting into his car). Based on your knowledge of Kathy, don’t you find this unlikely, especially given that she was, as you say, not very responsive to attention from men aside from her boyfriend? Also presumably she wanted to get back to the dorm to study for her exam, regardless of her stated apathy about it.

    One last question–do you remember if the man who bothered you at the library was wearing a sling, cast, etc.? Bundy often wore some fake means of making himself appear injured and thus harmless.

    Thanks again for your feedback.

  4. That’s my understanding, Vidor. This was from Pensacola, shortly after Ted was caught. He looks wierd and beat to hell. It’s a photo, not a mug shot. Ted still has his porn stash and lot’s of “road grime”. You can see what people said when they reported Ted looked wierd. He was still shattered and didn’t much look like the “young law student”.

    He’d reform that look after several showers and new duds.

  5. KYGB–

    That is indeed a good photo capturing forever what Bundy looked like immediately after his arrest in Pensacola. Indeed, I would have loved to have located that picture for my book. A bit too late now, however, LOL!

  6. That’s from when he was first arrested? That sure would be a good addition to the Wikipedia page…

    I realized after I typed it that my comment above re: no Kathy Parks pictures was wrong. But I do believe that it’s the only one.

  8. “What a waste of human kind” Judge in Florida said at the Chi Omega trial.
    What a waste of human kind that Piece of Shit had ever been born!

  12. Hi, Lorraine

    Thank you very much, Lorraine – for this tribute to Kathy – or let’s just say – just her portrait.
    She is still with us – forever.
    Forever fascinating, forever promising, forever “Californian” forever funny and forever serious & introspective, forever wearing huraches and forever 21 years old:)

    Now I feel a little ashamed but happy – I got to know her – I have so many details on Kathy – thanks to you. And it is me – who has nothing common with Kathy.
    I only hope she wouldn’t be bothered.
    Sorry, I only hope she is not bothered 🙂

    I wish I could get grip on a time machine – to go directly to Corvallis 72/73 – just to get to know Kathy personally.
    I don’t absolutely mean dating 🙂 – I still own a mirror at my home 🙂

    Although I was “on earth” in early 70s – I was in a “deep cradle” 🙂 mode – plus I was on the other side of the world – so there was then no chance to maintain any relationship with Kathy:)

    What can I say more?
    Thank you very much.

    You see – what you do here is like planting flowers on the dark swamp (with all respect to all forum members, including me:)

    You see like this “creep swamp thing ” becomes smaller and smaller – and more meaningless – with each Kathy smile from heaven?

    PS:
    What is Kathy birthday date? Not death date – birthdate. 🙂

    Do have any other, normal photo’s of Kathy – from normal life? Is it possible to have a look at it? Probably, her family will refuse . Too bad.

    And last request:
    As because I am very serious about developing a project (probably website) devoted to tell stories of real and normal lives (no just pre-crime days or hours) of “those who still should be with us” – I will be deeply flattered to be in email contact with Lorraine – my email-box bbiernacki71@gmail.com – for future.

    Kevin, please yell at me if i am crossing the line – but I feel what I and Lorraine discuss here is a little bit off-topic (not related to Kathy abduction and further investigation) – and other forum members might find it maybe boring – while I find it great.

    Best Regards, Lorraine 🙂

    !
    .

  13. Bart, The picture you have provided the link for is the infamous “missing person” poster of Kathy that we made (and plastered on every pole, building, fence) we were permitted to in the days following her abduction. The picture doesn’t really do her justice….. as Kevin remarks in his book (and I knew he was looking at this photo when he made the comments); there is a darkness and a sadness in Kathy’s eyes in this photo, which was not her “typical” look.

    Well, let me try to give you the best picture I can….. Kathy was very slender; she wore a size 2 clothing. She had waist length dark blond hair that was absolutely beautiful, and something she was very proud of. Like many of us at the time, she favored mini-skirts and hip-hugger pants, though she never gave the look of being “promiscuous” which such attire, not carefully put together, could sometimes suggest. Kathy definitely was a classy young lady, and this was obvious at first meeting. She always, and I mean ALWAYS wore huraches (woven leather slip on shoes from Mexico), even in the most torrential rains that Oregon is famous for. She had great fun putting together her “hippy-era” outfits, and she was quite good at it. I mentioned in an earlier post that we identified ourselves as the “California girls” of the group of dorm friends, and Kathy very much strived for the “look” that goes along with that.

    Her major was in “Religious Studies” though she had mentioned many times that she had no clear idea what she would do with that in the future. She had chosen it as a matter of personal interest, but as time went on, she began to see its limitations regarding a “career” and had given some thought to some sort of business study. Part of the reason Kathy was so dissatisfied with “student life” at the time was that she wasnt clear on how she wanted to make her living. She was absolutely clear on the fact that she did WANT a carreer, but she questioned its direction regularly.

    Kathy was a rock-n-roller, and often visited my room because I was the only one of her friends with a decent stereo at the dorm. We listened to Cream, Led Zeppilin, Moody Blues… The British rock invasion was in full swing, and Kathy liked most of the music included in that.

    Certainly, male attention was something Kathy had no trouble attracting, but she was actually quite shy, and didn’t really appreciate it for the most part. She was very seriously involved with her boyfriend, Christy McPhee, and though he lived in Louisiana at the time, Kathy made it clear to her many male acquaintances that she was “Christy’s girl”. As I mentioned in an earlier post, and Kevin states in his book, Kathy did not question the fact that she was in love with Christy, but she was certain that she was not ready for marriage, and much of her personal anguish at the time centered around the fact that Christy wanted to make their commitment permanent. She didn’t want to risk losing him by asking him to wait. She had made the decision, though, that when he arrived for a visit the following week, she was going to take that risk, and simply tell him that she was not ready to make such a serious commitment until she had sorted through some of the other aspects of her life and had defined a more clear direction for herself and her future.

    Kathy smoked Marlboros, her favorite drink was a white Russian, and whenever the restaurant choice was left to her, at was Mai Wah’s Mandarin Chinese restaurant on 9th street in Corvallis.

    I mentioned earlier that Kathy had a very quick wit. She could pop out with the most hilarious (though sometimes ruthless)comments, but she was careful with this “skill” because she would never be intentionally hurtful to anyone. I wish I could think of an example, but suffice it to say that even if you found yourself to be the target of her razor-sharp wit, it was almost always so funny that you simply couldn’t be angry, but rather, would find yourself laughing right along with everyone else. And Kathy could take it as well as dish it out, as easily laughing about herself as anything else.

    The melancholy, and brooding nature often accompanying discriptions of Kathy was, most definitely something more borne out of the feeling one got when looking at the “missing person” photo than it was based on any real aspect of Kathy’s personality. I knew Kathy, and even I got that “dark, troubled” vibe when I first saw that particular photo.

    By nature, while Kathy was very introspective and took any “life decisions” very seriously, she was not a melancholy, moody person. She much prefered laughter to worry, and for the most part it was easy to see that. Sadly, with her father’s health problems, her indecision regarding her course of study, and the ever-pressing conflict between her own and Christy’s ideas on which direction their relationship was to go next, she was, indeed, very troubled during the days leading up to her death. That was a reactive moodiness, however, and not an accurate glimpse into Kathy’s usual personality. She thought things through, never made impulsive decisions, and was what I would call a “serious” young woman, but she was also a lot of fun to be around, and the first to admit it when she was being overly introspective.

    Lorraine

  14. Getting back to darkness again.

    Have you evere heard of some “successful” or at least “attempted” bundy copycats?

    I read something over the last decade about some freaks and I wasn’t making notes so I can’t get back to this right now.

    I once heard about a guy obssesed with bundy who was trying to recreate his life, he moved to Washington state, he moved into old house resembling the one bundy lived in 1969-1974, bough old VW bug.
    Then, thankfully he landed in mental institution 🙂

    But were there any “confirmed” Bundy copycats? Not just sick fans – I mean.

  15. Hi, Lorraine

    Yeah it seems like it should pass at least more 30 years – so we can try to get out some information on lives that fell prey to this creep.

    But that will be much too late – to collect true and reliable information – when many people who knew the victims might be gone.

    But on the other hand – at present – we don’t have to touch their always mourning families.
    We can try to speak to their friends, acquaintances, neighbors, teachers. They might be easier to open.
    You are a perfect example of this!

    Maybe with time – and with some professional skillful psychological approach – we can also try open families.
    We can persuade them that’s the best they can do to their lost beloved ones – to keep them really alive to the world – not to mark them as – forgive me this statement – “Bundy’s girls”.

    Then, what can I ask you about Kathy?

    I don’t want to enter too far into her and others privacy.

    But as you were (are) friends tell me please:

    What was her major if it was declared then – – As she was sophomore?

    Where I live and when I studied – we had to choose majors right from the beginning – for example: law, psychology and so on.
    I have no knowledge of the then education system of Oregon State University in Corvallis.

    What was her favorite music? Movie? Book? Magazine?

    What was her favorite style of clothing?

    Her favorite drink? He brand of cigarettes?

    What is the funniest and craziest thing you remember about her? Some funny event or something else.

    Was she really specially melancholic and day-time dreamer?

    Did she have any funny “secret lover” or “admirer” during
    her university years (you know – stuff like writing love letters, doing funny and irrational things – as young people in love used to do?) – in obvious contradiction to that creep who took her life ?

    Was she really so indecisive, hesitating, moody – sometimes she liked hanging around with folks – but then she was very fond of spending time alone, without speaking to anybody?

    BTW – you can see Kathy here:
    http://www.mysterycrimescene.com/image-files/parks.jpg

    I really like her looks as she seems to me like “girl from the Moon, girl from the Sun” 🙂

    Best regards,
    Bart

  16. Re: #1782–I don’t remember ever seeing a picture of Kathy Parks. Ever. Guess that’s why.

  17. Hi Bart,

    Yes, I agree with you. Unfortunately, many of the people most able to write such tributes to the victims, their lost loved ones, will forever find it too painful to sit down to write. It opens up all the pain and heartbreak that they have spent a lifetime trying to deal with, and we really can’t ask them to emotionally return to that painful place. It is sad that we don’t have more insight into these girls and womens lives, but it is understandable why we don’t. If there is anything anyone would like to know about Kathy’s personality, I would be honored to share what I know. I think she would like that.

    Lorraine

  18. Hi, Lorraine

    Thank you for your kind comment on my earlier “declaration”.

    I am aware some of the victim’s families don’t want to go through agony of the beloved and gone – again – but the beloved ones deserve remembrance.

    I once found a website dedicated to Bundy’s victims (not to Bundy) – but it was long time ago – and information put there – was very short.

    They deserve much more bigger portions of info – real biographies.

  19. Hi Fiz,

    I was told, after Bundy was arrested and we learned that he was responsible for Kathy’s murder, that her family was strictly against any mention of her in recounts of Ted’s history. It was relayed to me that they found it all too painful, and had fought hard to keep all pictures of Kathy, and mention of her, out of all publications. I do not know if this is actually true, but it made me sad for Kathy’s sake. While I can certainly understand and respect the agony that her family was going thru, I always felt that it was important that we not lose sight of the fact that Kathy was a beautiful, intellegent and significant young woman. This goes along with what Bart said earlier.

    I am happy, indeed, that I can help remind people that Kathy was a warm, thinking, feeling woman who played an important role in the lives of all who knew and cared about her, and not simply a statistic.

    Thank you for your comment.

    Lorraine

  20. Lorraine, it is so brave of you to comment upon such agonising memories, but you have done one thing for Kathy that no-one else has ever done – made her a living breathing person again, not a statistic. That by itself is wonderful.

  21. Hi Topelius,
    Thank you for your post! Of course, I have wracked my brain trying to answer this question many times. Because I was so focused on the report that I was writing and concerned about getting all of my research done before the library closed, I pretty much had “tunnel vision” that night. As I mentioned, the guy was old enough that I knew he was certainly not a freshman, like me, and I assumed he was either a grad student or even a young professor. He had “longish” light brown hair, but for the time, this was not at all unusual.

    I do not specifically remember his face. I can only go by the way I saw him from a “female looks at male” perspective, and say he was not physically unattractive, unkempt, or in any way offputting simply by his appearance alone, as I would have made a mental note of that. He very much struck me as “oddly persistent” for his behaviior toward a complete stranger in a library, so my most vivid memory is simply that he was “creepy”. Sorry I can not tell you more than that, but at the time, I really had no reason to take mental notes on this person, and basically, I just wanted him to leave me alone so I could work without interruption.

    Lorraine

  22. Oh, I believe he was guilty of the “Lenz” attack too. I was just wondering. All the biographies mention that he confessed to the murder of thirty women, including the twenty murder victims in all the lists, and of course he was also convicted of the assaults on Carol DaRonch as well as the attacks on Kathy Kleiner, Kathy DeShields, and Cheryl Thomas. I just have never seen anything to indicate whether or not he admitted responsibility for the attack on Lenz. He probably didn’t. Just wondering.

  23. Hi, Topelius

    I generally don’t like off-topic posts – but yes I am in Europe and not so far from you because I am in Poland (we can say we are neigobours as we share the same sea – the Baltic sea 🙂

    And Poland also had to fight in 1939 – but unlike your nation – this was unsuccessful war for us.
    And its outcome determined our polital situation for the next 60 years!

  25. Hi Vidor–

    I’m not sure Bundy ever said anything about the “Lenz” girl; at least, I’ve never seen anything pertaining to it. But I will never believe it was anyone other than Bundy.

  26. I think Kevin was right to recount the abduction of Hawkins, because it was one of the few crimes of Ted Bundy that we actually know something about, thanks to his death row confession.

    Repeating my question above: did Bundy ever confess to the attack on “Joni Lenz”? Do we know?

  27. Thanks to Lorraine. Thank you very much for sharing your memories.

    As for the draft: as noted, the draft was by lottery basis. If you had bad luck, well, you’d probably be drafted. If you had good luck, you were safe. Presumably Ted had good luck.

  28. Hi Bart–

    The main focus of retelling the abduction story of Georgann Hawkins, was to give the reader the full story as to how Bundy did this particular murder. I tried to add everything I possibly could pertaining to those who were around the story at the time, like Duane Covey, the guy attempting to help Bundy cross the street, etc. But I didn’t feel it was necessary to (in this case) present those things you refer to from the confession. It was a personal choice of mine. That’s all.

  29. Bart`s a Euro? I`m from Hel(l)sinki.

    Lorraine, you`ve already contributed so much to this discussion, I`d like to thank you for that. This might be rather slippery, but you express yourself amazingly well. Got goosebumps while reading about the creepy guy in the library.

    I hope you don`t mind if I ask you something. I guess you`ve seen many pictures of Bundy. Did you ever get the feeling “this Bundy guy looks a lot like the weirdo in the library” etc.?

    Kevin, thanks for the info. I can`t be helped to respect the draft dodgers (if that`s the adequate term in the context we`re speaking of) either. Finland would`ve been in big trouble if the men had draft dodged back in 1939…

    Speaking of Finland and Vietnam. A guy named Lauri Törni (later Larry A Thorne) was a Finnish war hero. After WWII he joined US army and went to fight Viet Cong. Thorne was the inspiration for John Wayne`s character in a movie Green Berets. Thorne was almost a movie character himself, Rambo would have been jealous for his war achievements…

    Take care people!

  30. Oh! Hi, Monica, I am sorry, I hadn’t gone back far enough to read your kind welcome. Its nice to be here! I will definitely continue checking in and following the postings.

  31. Hi, Lorraine – your story about Kathyv Parks is very interesting and very touching.

    And I maybe will surprise you here, guys.

    But my very strong suggestion here is to discuss not only Bundy biography day by day, his modus operandi, his atrocities and other things focused obsessively on him – BUT ALSO also let us try to tell here stories of his victims.

    And I don’t absolutely mean describing only the last hours of their lives (as there was “the only living witness” with them, and not specially reliable) but let us study lives of those beautiful girls and women – a way before the fatal encounters – before the final tragedy. While they were happy, while leading normal lives.

    Let us find who they were, what was their childhood and life, their hobbies, their worries – their whole world.

    Thanks to the very touching Lorraine’s posts – I am about to shift my interest from the maniac – to those whom he killed.

    I want to know the detailed background of Janice Ott, Denise Naslund, Melissa Smith,Caryn Campbell, Debbie Kent and all others.

    I found myself ashamed – that I used to not remember they all – that I happen to mistake them like they had no greater importance.

    It is unfair people around the world study Bundy but at the same time they seem to treat people he killed like some “bus stops” on his killing madness trail.

    They deserve tribute and eternal remembrance.
    They absolutely deserve this.

    And they deserve studying their lives as whole – not only the last days or moments.

    This could be also good material for the separate book, Kevin
    I can give help you with a title – for example “Never to be forgotten”.

    But I know – as I work in advertising – this is not good sales-focused title.
    But the goal of such a book or website or whatever – will have nothing to do with money or sale.

    It is a pure remembrance – about people who definitely still should be with us.

    Thanks all and good night (my Central European Time night of course 🙂

  32. OK, the library incident. I am going to cheat a bit and cut and paste from my email to Kevin when I first told him about this. I am running on about 2 hours sleep, and must have a nap here soon. here it is:

    I avoided reading most of the media hype regarding Ted Bundy during the time he was first arrested. As a kid, I loved things like “The Alfred Hitchcock Hour” and “The Legend of Hill House”, but once something bizarre and terrifying becomes a part of your reality, it’s hard to find similar topics “entertaining”. Part of me really wanted to read about Bundy, because I had so many unanswered questions, but the other, more protective part, didn’t dare. In 1986 I was working as a fish processor aboard the MV Galaxy in Dutch Harbor, Alaska. One Friday night one of the movies about Bundy was being shown in the galley. I think it was “The Stranger Beside Me” but can’t be sure. I watched about 20 minutes of it and became nauseated, and returned to my room.

    Anyway, it was not until I read the excerpt from Kevin’s book that I made the “library” connection. I couldn’t help but notice, in his writing, that in many of Bundy’s 1st abductions and attempted abductions, he and his victims were in or near a university library. Well…… I had been studying at the library the night that Kathy was abducted, and I did have a slightly strange experience while I was there.

    There was this guy who seemed to be EVERYWHERE I was. I had a lot to do to complete my report, due the following day, and I was in “serious study mode.” When I went to the card catalog, there was a guy standing next to me looking through a different drawer. When I went to find the books on the shelves, he was again, right next to me, searching the shelves. He said something to the effect of “I can never find what I’m looking for here…” I pretty much ignored him, having found what I needed, and went to a table to begin working. A few minutes later he came and sat down at the same table, opposite side, a few chairs over. He asked if I had an extra pen, which I gave him. I proceeded to work, and he started to speak again. I said “Excuse me, but I have a ton of work to do”, and I gathered up my stuff and went to another table.

    I was annoyed because I had a lot to do, but didn’t think much more than that. It was getting late and they had announced that the library was closing soon. As I prepared to leave, I noticed the same guy, a short distance away. I remember being creeped out enough to take the stairs (in a group of students)rather than the elevator, and making sure I exited the library’s fron door with a number of other students. I stayed very close to a group headed in the same direction that was slightly ahead of me. They crossed the street right about the time I spotted Kathy. I was very close to the dorm at that point, and there were still several people walking in the vicinity, so I pretty much forgot about “the guy” and proceeded on to Sackett Hall after talking with Kathy.

    In a college atmosphere, guys notice girls on a regular basis, and I had my share of guys who noticed me, so I didn’t think much of the incident after that. I can’t say it was or wasn’t Bundy, but it is kind of creepy to think about, even now. I certainly fit the “long hair, parted down the middle” theory, but that particular night I had a purpose at hand, and I think, if ever, I looked less “vulnerable” than I might have at other times when I didn’t have an assignment deadline. I remember thinking the guy was either a grad student or even a young professor. He was definitely older than I was. He didn’t have any casts or slings, but he had a large backpack and was carrying a shopping bag like one would get at Macy’s or Nordstrom’s. I remember this only because, at the time, I was thinking “What kind of person goes to the library carrying all that stuff and doesn’t even have a pen?”

    I am assuming that Bill Harris The Oregon State Campus Security investigator had at least some information about the MO of the serial killer who turned out to be Bundy. I wish that he had asked me if I had noticed anything strange at the library. Not that it would have helped anything, but it seems a logical question if he was aware of Bundy’s recent activities. I certainly had no reason to connect the two things at the time.

  33. Thanks for the response. I do want to tell you about the library incident, but even after all these years, its still emotionally draining to talk about this stuff, so I will get back to that part in a little while.

    Wow, Richard! What a great question! I had never really thought too much about that until reading your question, but in my case, it is most certainly true. Throughout my adult life it has been extremely important to me to always “be in charge” if you will, of everything in my life.

    Prior to Kathy’s abduction I was far more spontaneous, and impulsive than I was aftter it all happened. I didn’t always feel the need to think and plan out every little detail before doing things. Partly because I was so naive at the time this all occurred, the shock of it all changed me quite a bit. When you are completely trusting (though its not exactly a “safe” way to live), life is a lot more carefree. After losing ALL trust, (and yes, I literally went from one extreme to the other for a time), the only way I really felt safe in any area of my life was when I was in complete control of it.

    Fortunately, time has tempered that some, and I have found more of a middle ground at this point.

  34. Hi, Lorraine, welcome to the discussion. You write well.

    I have learned in my research that one of the greatest needs of victims’ families and friends, especially in a case like this, is to have some measure of control over events that directly affect their lives. I was wondering what your thoughts were on that issue.

  35. Thanks for your detailed response! Very interesting information.
    Coming from someone who knew Kathy personally, it truly drives home the reality of it all. Very poignant, indeed!

  36. Kathy and I met shortly after my roommate and I had moved to Sackett Hall at the beginning of winter term, in the 1973-1974 school year. We immediately identified that we were both from the San Francisco Bay Area. Kathy was from Lafayette, and I was from Novato… just a hop skip and a jump across the Bay. We were California girls, and most of the girls in our dorm were native Oregonians. Somehow silently deeming ourselves “more worldly” (young women can be so funny!) we both knew that we related to a similar “reality” that the other girls didn’t share. As silly as I know this sounds now, it was actually the basis for our friendship, and we really did see ourselves as alike, and different from the rest.

    Kathy was a Sophomore, and I was a Freshman. More significantly, she was 20 (when we met) and I was 18, so I both looked up to and admired her. She was a quite girl, but had a sharp quick wit that could be utterly ruthless, though she was careful to never share it in a way that would be hurtful to anyone. I liked Kathy a lot.

    At the time of her abduction, Kathy was dealing with a number of things in her life that were troubling. She was in love with her boyfriend Christy, but he wanted to settle down and commit seriously, as in marriage, and Kathy was sure she wasn’t ready for that. He was due to visit in about a weeks time, and she knew that he wanted her to make a decision. She didn’t want to lose him, but she knew she wasn’t ready for marriage. She also wasn’t thrilled with her overall experience as a “student”. She felt that she was paying out of state tuition and going through the motions of her classes without feeling a direction. She questioned her major many times, and once declared that she would just change her major to “underwater basket weaving” and leave it at that.

    Prior to the conversation that Kevin mentions in his book, Kathy and I had spoken earllier in the evening. At that time she expressed her ongoing confusion about “what to do” about Christy, and her father’s heart attack earlier that day, which her sister had assured her was not life threatening. She was very concerned about a Spanish test scheduled for the following day, for which she felt totally unprepared. While she was a Sophomore and I was a Freshman, I was, in fact, in a more advanced Spanish Class than she was. She asked if I would help “quiz” her later that night. “Yes, I would be happy to.”

    Kathy and I were the “nightowls” of our section of the dorm, so when I told her I had a literature report due the following day, which would require several hours in the library to complete, she said “thats fine, just come get me when you get home.”

    I went to the library (more on that later), finished my report, and left when it closed at 11:00 PM. Its about a 7 minute walk back to the dorm. I had made my way past the Memorial Union Commons, crossed the street, and saw Kathy heading my way. I said “Oh, I was just going to come and get you to quiz you on your Spanish!”

    She said, basically, “Forget the Spanish, I am still not prepared, and right now I don’t even care.” She went on to say that she was really having a rough time, trying to decide what to do about “everything” and that she had just smoked hashish. When I initially spoke to the campus police, after she disappeared, I was not forthcoming with that information, because i didn’t want to get Kathy into any trouble. She said she was going to the Commons for a hot fudge sundae, and she would be back to the dorm in a while. I mentioned that I still had some things to do to complete my report, and that she could find me in the dorm “lounge” if she changed her mind about the Spanish help. I would be up late, and didn’t want to disturb my roomate while I continued to work.

    I also didn’t realize, until reading Kevin’s book, that the letter Christy received from Kathy, dated May 7th, 1974, was ever questioned. Kathy, in fact, had that letter in her hand as we spoke, and I watched her mail it in the small mailbox in front of the Commons just after we parted. The place we met and talked was just across the street from The Commons…. her destination after we spoke was no more than 50 feet away.

    I proceeded to the dorm, settled in at the lounge, and completed my report. It was somewhere around 2:00 AM when I finally went to bed, and I thought it was extremely odd that Kathy had not come home. I knew she could not have returned to the dorm, and then, her room, without my seeing her. She would have had to, at the very least, walk by the lounge that I was studying in, and at that time of night, it was completely quiet. I most certainly would have heard her come in.

    One of the policies of dorm life was that, no matter your age, while living in a dormitory, one could not stay out past 2:00 AM without having made prior arrangements with the RA (resident advisor – typically a grad student given free room and board for ienforcing the dorm rules and serving as a “counselor” if any residents needed a friendly ear). I knew that Kathy had not made arrangements to stay out all night, and I also knew that she would never draw such attention to herself by breaking such a rule. It didn’t seem “normal” but I decided to go to bed and hope that her Spanish test wasn’t a complete disaster.

    The following morning, I got up and went to the community bathroom/shower to get ready to go to class. The 1st person I ran into was Miriam “Bunny” Schmidt, Kathy’s roommate. I asked her if Kathy was “up” because I wanted to quickly check in with her about the Spanish test. She said “Kathy never came home last night.” Bunny and I didn’t really know each other…..we were acquantances by virtue of the fact that we both knew Kathy. We looked at each other, and I could tell that she felt as unsettled about Kathy’s absence as I did.

    It occurred to me that Kathy may have decided to seek out an off campus friend for some consolation and merely fell asleep there, but knowing Kathy, I knew that was highly unlikely. Kathy was a very consciencious person, and would do most anything to avoid drawing unfavorable attention to herself. I also knew that no matter what she said about “forget the Spanish test, I don’t care”, she was indeed a very responsible person, and would simply NOT just blow off an exam. Her conscience would never have allowed her to do that. I didn’t say anything to Bunny, but I was very worried.

    I was really torn, because I didn’t want to draw attention to a “rule violation” that may have gone unnoticed, but I wasn’t willing to accept that Kathy “just didn’t come home”. I had to leave for class soon, and finally decided that I had no choice but to alert the RA to the fact that Kathy had not come home. We decided that we had to contact campus security. It had not yet become a public “gripped with fear” situation, but we were all aware that a couple of girls had simply “vanished” from campuses in Washington State.

    Investigator Bill Harris, an officer from OSU’s campus security, came to the dorm to talk to me, and I told him what I have just told you, leaving out the reference to hashish. I then left for my literature class. At that point I was very scared that something very terrible had happened to Kathy, and I could tell from looking at Bunny (Kathy’s roommate), that she was thinking nthe same.

    Days passed; then weeks. The term (and, so, the 1973-1974 school year)was coming to a close. There was still no sign of Kathy. Investigator Harris was not seeming to hear me when I repeatedly told him that this was completely out of character for Kathy, and there was something VERY wrong. I couldn’t tell if he believed that she had just intentionally “disappeared” or if there was something that he just wasn’t telling me.

  37. I hit submit too soon, lol.

    Hi Bart! What Ted said to his victims, once he had them in his clutches, is anyone’s guess. But the makers of the 2002 film (i have not seen the more recent film), could have been on to something with that! we know that Ted was deeply insecure and control was everything to him, so it is at least a possibility that yelled at them in that way and made “god like” speeches. He was deluded as well as deranged! Only his victims saw the “real” Ted Bundy, and it is quite frightening to imagine what they saw when the carefully, crafted mask began to slip (right in front of their very eyes) when moments before he must have appeared “normal” like everybody else; trustworthy and charming even. After all, that is how he got them to help him, or go with him in the first place.

  38. Hi Lorraine, and welcome! It is great to have you here. I am pleased to hear that you are in a better place now (you must have gone through so much), and that Kevin’s book allowed you to finally face the truth of what happened. That is necessary for healing.

    You say that you realise there may have been some significance to the events that you experienced that evening. Could you elaborate on that?

    Regards.

  39. Hi, Kevin

    I have a question to you.

    Why didn’t you mention in your book some specific details delivered by Bundy on George Ann Hawkins abduction?

    As far as I remember – he once confessed (probably to his “friend” Bill Hagmaier) that as he knocked her unconscious and grabbed her to his car – she regained conscience after a while during the drive – and – being hurt and disoriented – she started to talk to him that she had thought he came to her to help her with her Spanish test (as she was very concerned about this exam that fatal night).
    According to Bundy, he knocked her unconscious again, pulled over and strangled her to death as he didn’t was to put himself to risk – her poor skull seemed to be extremely hard – and he feared she would regain conscious again.

    Did you regard this account not reliable – or maybe too painful for victim and victim family?

    Plus, I have another question to Kevin and other folks.

    Do you think Bundy used to abuse verbally his victims, mocking at them or giving them “I am not nobody! I am a God!” speeches – before killing them.
    Such scenes are shown in 2002 and 2009 Bundy movies.
    But naturally they are just movies, sometimes very far from true facts.

    I remember I once read that Bundy – in the process of his crime – used sometimes to pretend he was rescuing his victims as they regain conscious – to tell that it was an accident and he was just driving girl to the hospital.

    But what about mocking, yelling, giving god-like speeches?

    I personally think it wasn’t his style – he tended to keep normal conversation with victim before abduction as quick as possible – just not to spoil his fantasy of “Big Control”.

    But on the other hand – he allegedly loved to rise terror in his victims – if they were alive.

    So maybe – there is something right with mocking, & yelling at the girls.

  40. What does everyone make of bundys Sock and Foot fetish. very bizarre indeed. Its said he wud often change his socks 2 or 3 times a day. He says “Socks are such a serious part of my life. They’re so very important to me.”

    I would guess then that he would buy socks to put on the victims corpses and stuff when he was doing the deeds i presume.

  41. Hello, everyone. I am Lorraine Fargo, mentioned in Kevin’s book as the last person (that we know of) to speak with Roberta Kathleen Parks (who we all knew as Kathy) prior to her abduction and murder by Ted Bundy. I contacted Kevin when I was alerted by a family member (who had googled my name) that I was “In a book”.

    I was quite shocked to learn that my name was mentioned in a book about Ted Bundy, as it never had been before, to my knowledge. To tell you the truth, I wasn’t exactly thrilled about it, and as I am sure Kevin will substantiate, my first correspondence with him wasn’t exactly “friendly”, lol. When Kathy was killed, it was a very painful and terrifying time for me. I had managed, after many years of doing the best I could to “bury” the emotion and trauma that went along with those memories, to pretty much put Ted Bundy out of my mind.

    Looking back at these past several weeks, from my first contact with Kevin, I guess my first reaction was “How DARE this guy bring this all up for me again, after I finally managed to find some semblance of ‘calm’ in my life?! Who does he think he is, anyway?!” I didn’t really realize it at first, but I was angry with Kevin Sullivan!

    We began to email, and I was able to read a portion of Kevin’s book at Amazon. It didn’t take me long to figure out that Kevin Sullivan is a very sensitive and caring man, and that his intent was to write a factually accurate and interesting book with the sensitivity necessary for “even me” to be able to read it without falling back into the agoraphobic mess that I had become when the truth about what happened to Kathy was finally known. Not to say that the book isn’t “chilling” because it is, but somehow, after corresponding with Kevin, I had the feeling that he was, in a sense, holding my hand through it, and it was safe, and it was finally OK to KNOW. It wasn’t until I finally dared to read, and see a pattern, that I realized that perhaps my evening at the library that night of May 6, 1974, had more to it than I had previously thought.

    OK, responsibility beckons. I have an 18 year old son with autism who is a senior in High School. I need to get him off to school, and I will take up where I left off here, in about 30 minutes.

    You see, for my own sense of security, I never read any of the hype that was literally EVERYWHERE when the Bundy case finally broke. I was too emotionally fragile, and was terrified that reading the details would send me to an emotional place from which I might never find my way back. Since “meeting” Kevin (by email), I have been able to read, and accept the horrible truth of the events in 1974 that forever changed my life. I also, for the 1st time in 35+ years, realize that there may have been some significance to the events I experienced earlier that evening of May 6, 1974.

    I was a freshman at Oregon State University, and I lived in a coed dorm called Sackett Hall. Kathy Parks was a “neighbor” in my dorm who I greatly admired

  42. Vidor,

    Yes, if Bundy stopped killing after the Kent murder, he probably felt satiated form all the murders in that first semester period. And, like you say, there were tests, Liz, and family obligations to be concerned about as he approached Christmas. But boy, do the unknown murders keep us wondering!

  43. Yes. There were probably more beyond the thirty that he confessed to. Still, he did confess to thirty total, and we know the identities of only 20. We believe we know more or less when two of those were–the Idaho hitchhiker on Sept. 2, 1974, and the confession he made to Keppel of a girl around Tumwater in May 1973. That leasves at a minimum eight where we have not the slightest idea when they happened, which is something we need to remember when wondering why he went a full two months between Kent and Campbell.

  44. Vidor–

    I am certain Bundy had victims we know nothing about. The unknown Washington State and Utah cases he spoke about are, I believe, only the ones he’s chosen to highlight.

  46. And as for the question of why Bundy went two months without a victim from Nov. 8, 1974 to Jan. 12, 1975, a few guesses:

    1. Maybe he was busy. Probably had law school tests at the end of the semester. Also went home to see Liz and family.

    2. He wasn’t a once-a-month clock. The list of victims also indicates that he had gone without for seven weeks at the time of his arrest in August of 1975. (That’s why I think he was hunting when he was arrested–that and the fact that he was in a place he had no business beign, dressed in his black clothes).

    3. Maybe he didn’t go two months without. His death row confessions indicated that three Washington victims and three Utah victims were unknown. Maybe that interregnum was when he took one of the victims that we will never know about.

  47. I tend to agree with Bart’s guess in #1731, namely, that Bundy was looking for a second victim when he went back into the auditorium.

    Question: when Bundy was making his confessions at the end, did he ever fess up to the attack on “Joni Lenz” of Jan. 4, 1974?

  48. I received your book this morning, Kevin. Excellent!
    Now i am off for an early night to do some serious reading. Something tells me though, sleep ain’t going to come easy tonight!

    Lucas, thanks for putting up that link! Interesting sketches, indeed. I can just visualise Ted drawing such things, actually (unlike the Michael Jackson and Raquel Welch paintings) And if they are indeed genuine, it looks like he had a talent there.

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