1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer

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It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.

Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.

Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?

The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.


Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)

Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.

ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?

I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.

From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.

Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.

The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?

The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.

But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.

Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?

Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.

You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?

They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.

I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?

They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.

Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way

How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?

Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.

However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.

Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.

* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.

Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:

On this day..

Possibly related executions:

8,544 thoughts on “1989: Ted Bundy, psycho killer”

  1. Lorraine, you just made me laugh so hard!

    Quote: (For one thing, trying to visualize Bundy in the act of sodomy while simultaneously biting off a woman’s nipples is a very serious stretch of the imagination).

    You can say that again! Unless, of course, Ted was a contortionist, LOL! I see that you don’t buy the article, well that makes quite a few of us then.

  2. Well, KYGB and all.

    I am very sorry.

    You are all probably right about me – specially that you (KYGB) are not the first person here to say harsh words about me.

    It seems I should leave this site permamently. And never get back even as a lurker.

    It is a pity – because there are great people here to talk and to listen to.

    But it seems I turned out to be too small.

    And I am specially too small for what I planned to do. So I must stop this madness.

    Bye and have a good day.
    I wish you all the luck.

    Bart

  3. Bart, I, for one, am NOT encouraged by you renewing your quest by contacting authors and victim survivors in the Bundy case. I am disturbed by it. You have shown that you lack the investigative skills, sophistication, and command of the English language to undertake such a project.

    Moreover, you were told by a victim survivor on April 7 that your actions were creepy and a bother. Do you think that a 5 day period is sufficient time for rehabilitation and put you back on the case?

    You are like a bull in a china shop, rushing headlong without a whole lot of thought to the ramifications of your actions.

    Rather than “hunting” your contacts, why don’t you be a fisherman? Start a site that pertains to victim survivors and talk to those that come to see you. You have shown absolutely no skills whatsoever in your ability to contact these people and converse with them. Why don’t you stop this activity before you do more harm?

    Sorry to be so blunt, but you don’t seem to respond well to subtle messages.

  4. From “bundy books” by Anne Rule – I only know “Stranger Beside Me”.

    Did she write more?

    I thought she did not – and only kept republishing this one book over and over again – while shifting her interest on other crimes.

    Maybe Ms Rule referred to some of her essays or articles ?

    Or maybe – when Ms Rule is currently ill – she had no patience to express precisely – and she just “wrote me back something” .

    BTW I also managed to contact by e-mail a lady who was Georgeann Hawkings high school acquiantance back in Tacoma – and this lady gave me some description of her, admitting I am lucky as she is currently on vacation and has spare time to recall some things.

    But that’s off topic of this thread – so i am gonna shut up. 🙂

  5. Just a couple of things….

    First, Bart, I have no idea what “book” was referred to in the response you received from Ms. Rule or her spokesman, but, to my knowledge, no such book exists. I think that becomes evident in that when googling the names of the individual victims, there are no links offered which present such information. If such a book existed, certainly google would have links to either book exerpts or comments made in reviews of such a book.

    Secondly, and I mean no disrespect, to Kris: There is a lot of information published about Ted Bundy, his crimes, his M.O., etcetra, and when one reads a good portion of it, he/she gets a pretty good picture of what is likely to be factual, and what is either conjecture or sheer hype in hopes of generating $$$. The literature that you continue to reference simply does not strike me as believable at all.

    The idea of Ted’s mother, after being beaten by her father, taking Ted to their room, stripping naked and “soothing” him, well… I would have surely stopped reading at that point, having deemed it “hogwash”, and looked for other, more plausable Bundy information to read.

    We (the reading public) have been offered enough information about Louise Cowell Bundy to realize that while she wasn’t a perfect mother, she was also not a deranged woman. Have you read Kevin’s book? Any of Michaud and Aynesworths’ work? With all due respect, I do not know how you could read the books that are accepted as factual histories of Ted Bundy and still continue to uncover some of the bizarre information you have mentioned here and not immediately rejected it. (For one thing, trying to visualize Bundy in the act of sodomy while simultaneously biting off a woman’s nipples is a very serious stretch of the imagination).

    I don’t want to be mean, but frankly, I have had no inclination to follow any of the links that you have provided after reading your description of their content. Without even clicking on the links, I have already made up my mind that their content is fiction at least, hype at best. There are many good books (Kevin’s is the best!) with accurate, substantiated information about Ted Bundy and his crimes. I think if you read some of them you will be better able to ascertain when to reject certain information, and save yourself a lot of time.

    Lorraine

  6. Well, Kevin, I can certainly imagine how you felt upon hearing that news on Monday morning. As you may recall from the police reports regarding my last conversation with Kathy, I tried to convince her to return to Sackett Hall with me so that we could talk about the things that were troubling her rather than go to the commons cafeteria for a hot fudge sundae. Knowing that she was high and had “the munchies”, I even tried to bribe her with M&Ms I had back at the dorm. “If only…..” has played through my mind a million times……

  7. Hi,

    If “there’s plenty of posting room for everyone every day!” – I am back. But – calm down – I am back only for a second – just not to annoy anybody.

    I have only one question.

    I managed to contact Mrs Ann Rule (by e-mail) asking her to give me some advice on my “Bundy victims project”.

    And this lady (or maybe her agent or whoever else representing her) wrote me back:
    “I have already written a book with all the information on the victims you are looking for.”

    Which book did she refer to?
    I looked through her books list and read descriptions of the books – but I didn’t find any book specifically devoted to Bundy crime victims.
    Rules’ other books seem to be devoted to completely different crime cases.

    So what did she mean?
    Did she suggest “Stranger Beside Me”?
    Or maybe I missed something coping with Ann Rule’s bibliography
    ?

    Maybe she mentioned some unpublished book?
    Or maybe she simply misunderstood me – because of my clumsy English?

    I don’t have a clue.

    I don’t want to bother this lady again – because she mentioned in her e-mail that – she is “quite ill”.

    So maybe someone here might help me find this book?

    regards
    Bart

  8. Monica–

    No need to go away. There’s plenty of posting room for everyone every day!

    See ya soon…

  9. LOL!

    Will disappear for a while (from executed.com, i mean). I fear that i’m probably annoying the hell out of everyone on here, constantly posting all the time.

    Take care, yourself, Kevin! It has been a real pleasure talking to you.

  10. Hi Monica–

    Well, you sound like you’ve got your head on correctly, LOL!

    Yes, it does seem like things were working against Bundy while in Pensacola, and I rather jokingly say something to that effect at the beginning of that chapter.

    However, I would say the greatest enemy Bundy had at that time was himself. He was under going a severe meltdown, and unlike in earlier years, he was now leaving a bloody trail of evidence behind him. Bundy was unraveling, and Pensacola, Florida was the end for this ruthless killer.

    Take care, Monica…

  11. Hi Kris–

    First (and with all due respect) the aforementioned article just doesn’t “ring true” in my opinion. People are free to believe what they want, but I’m not jumping on board, as it were.

    Of course, Ted Bundy did not whack everybody in the head upon abduction, and I think this is clear from the record. However, they all got a whack in the head eventually, or otherwise were strangled to death, etc.

    Yes, Bundy did have some of his victims disrobe for his voyeuristic pleasure, as mentioned, I believe, in “Conversations with a Killer”.

    The only time a gun was mentioned was with the Carol DaRonch abduction, but even here, I’ve been told by those close to the case that carol might have been mistaken about this. Bundy just didn’t need a gun to subdue a woman.

    I don’t know if Bundy was “biting” the victims in Washington State, but does that particular aspect really matter? keep in mind he waqs decapitating women there, and taking their heads to his apt. for God knows what. One sick bastard act is as bad as another.

    Take care, Kris…

  12. Hi Kevin! I know that you are not judging me for what i said, and i couldn’t agree with more when you say: to believe that “everything happens for a reason” is believe a lie. Trust me, hearing people say such a thing makes me very angry. Also, i too agree that you don’t pay for your sins in this life, that is evident, so many people have done serious harm to others, yet they appear to have escaped justice all together. Sometimes you hear people say “Where was god when that happened” or, “If there was a god, then he wouldn’t have allowed such a thing to occur.” But like you say yourself (and this is what i have always believed), you can’t BLAME god for the deeds of OTHERS. What we choose to do as humans, is out of his hands. He will guide us in the right direction, but if we choose not to listen to that voice within, that is our fault, not his.

    All i meant was, Kevin, that some of the time, things (or forces) appeared to be working against him (Ted), more than just mere coincidences. Call it fate, if you will.

    Thanks for sharing that story about your friend, with us!! How awful! And, yes, what you described there (receiving some prior warning to a tragedy about to occur) doesn’t appear to be all that uncommon.

  13. Kevin and Barry,

    I know the whole “mother originally telling ted that she was his mother when he was a child in bed” thing hasn’t been reported anywhere before, but it is possible this could be true…and ted, who clearly didn’t want his mother or family being sucked into this in any way, refused to tell this, except maybe to a couple people. Remember, there are still a lot of unknown facts out there that only certain people know. Of course, this could be the author’s way of making sense of the whole thing too (so he embellished), but if he had spoken to Art Norman, William H, or Diana W, he could have learned this, possibly.
    As you read further into the article, a lot of what is said makes sense and I suppose it could be true. Monica, It appears that the author is a PhD who has recevived numerous awards and has worked in the psychiatric/neurological field since the 70’s. He has many published articles.
    That particular article states this: “He would drive them off to some isolated spot, force them to disrobe or he would tear off their clothes. Once they were cowering and naked, completely in his power, he would rape and sodomize them, sometimes with a foreign object, such as a knife. He would then bite off their nipples and hunks out of their buttocks and then strangle them with their nylon stockings while he was sodomizing them”.
    If this were true, it tells us a couple of things. First and foremost it tells us that, perhaps his desired method (and most used) was not to knock out his victims and transport their unconcious bodies into the woods. This would suggest that he preferred them not to be unconscious so that he could “play” with them first and watch them cower in fear before killing them.
    Kevin, you suggest in your book that he liked to psychologically torture his victims (as you stated “an aphrodisiac to have a female truly afraid of him”), and this article would confirm that. The article has ted making them undress on their own, giving him a striptease before he attacked, and then making them act out some of his fantasies before the kill.
    I know this is a long post, so let me narrow it down to the questions is poses.
    1. The article suggests that ted bit off nipples and chunks of buttocks with many victims even before the Chi O victims. Since most of the bodies were found skeletonized, isn’t it possible that he had bitten off body parts many times before, especially with the Washington victims?
    2. Isn’t it possible that (as an alternative to knocking them unconscious with a crowbar) Ted may have gotten many victims in his car by threatening them with a gun or other weapon (either before they got in or after), made them walk on their own to the kill spot after parking (instead of carrying or dragging an unconscious girl), then made them strip for him as he relished every moment of their fear, then he struck?
    3. Ted knew (and clearly remembered) his grandfather’s abuse of his mother was the genesis for his propensity to violence against women- but refused to admit it to avoid shaming his family?
    Thoughts? I love this board.

  14. Hi Monica–

    Listen, you’ve known me as a writer. let me introduce myself as a minister, LOL!

    Let me start by saying, PLEASE don’t hear me judging anything you are saying here, but rather, my view of God, the world, and humanity in general. It’s just the way I believe it all works.

    Some of the biggest lies about God are as follows: “Everything happens for a reason”. No it doesn’t. If that’s true, than even Hitler is better than God! If everything happens for a reason, then the child that is abducted, raped and murdered is somehow in the divine will of God. or take Theodore Bundy’s victims. If everything happens for a reason, then why the slaughter of these innocent women? Why were the lives of thousands changed forever because Ted Bundy did what he did? Terrible things can happen, but it is not the will of God.

    Another lie is “God will get you for that” Well, he will, but not in this life. God has allowed free will in every human life, and while there will come a day when (according to the New Testament) everyone will stand before God to give an account of his or her life, that accounting will come only after this life is over AND a period of time has elapsed, and at which time the Great Judgment will occur. Okay, enough theology.

    Now, as God views things (in my opinion) he very much wanted Ted Bundy to go another way. That is, he loved Ted Bundy, and he would have wanted him to receive eternal life, so that a the time of his death, he would travel to God. Instead, not only did Theodore did not receive eternal life, he began taking the lives of innocent women. God loved these women dearly (as he does us all) and didn’t want any of them to perish by the hands of a mad killer; but they perished anyway. What happened? I don’t know, but one thing I am certain of is this: God will not intervene in the affairs of life as a whole (this is why Hitler died by his own hand at the end of the war, and not by the God’s or a human hand) and only in certain cases where a person may receive a divine “nudge”
    say, telling him not to go a certain place, or some other “feeling” that they shouldn’t do this or that, can a horrible thing be avoided. Now, a personal example from my time in the ministry:

    I remember years ago, when, as a young minister, still holding a “regular” job while performing the ministry, I said to a friend of mine at work: “I know you will be returning to school this weekend (he attended college in another state) but I wish you wouldn’t go.” I was having a really bad feeling about him returning to school, but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was. he said:” I will see you next year…” and then he laughed. So, not feeling any relief (and still having a bad feeling about him going this weekend, I said: “Why can’t you delay going a few days or something, I just wish you wouldn’t go”.. With this, he just looked at me, and said it was okay, he needed to go home. Well, at that point, other people were looking at us, and I remember thinking that if I ask him a third time, he, and everyone around me will start thinking I’m gay (LOL!!!) otherwise, I’d let this go. Still, I told him again that I felt like he shouldn’t go home. But to home he went anyway.And here is what happened: he arrived home Sunday evening, and within 3 hours of being back at his fraternity, he was murdered.

    Now, can you imagine how I felt after hearing of this on Monday morning. But my point is this: It is my opinion that God himself was warning that young man through me. I know it sounds strange, but I believe it to be true anyway. And guess what? That sort of thing has happened to me many times throughout my life as a minister; and it happened after I retired, too.

  15. I love the way it appears that “divine intervention” played a part in bringing Ted to justice, in the end. I am talking about, in particular, the way that his attempts at leaving Tallahasse were being thwarted at every turn. It was like some higher force/being was saying: “Enough is enough! This cannot go on any longer.” Is it also just a mere coincidence that he got nowhere after his escape from the Colorado courthouse? and that, although he was skilled at killing (and getting away with it), he would be arrested TWICE for simply being at “the wrong place at the wrong time?” Maybe it was down to Ted’s stupidity and nothing more, but i like to think there was more to it than that.

  17. Vidor–

    I should have addressed this when you first mentioned it in your post: Even so, Lorraine did an excellent job of giving the reasons why the M&A interviews are the most plausible explanation of how he abducted Kathy. Keep in my that Kathy was know to go to the commons at night, and Bundy said he encountered her in the cafeteria. That terrible blow to the head came no doubt after her arrival in Washington State.

  18. Kevin, indeed! In Mike Fisher, i am sure that Ted Bundy came to realise that he had more than met his match.

    Kris, i read the article you mentioned (extremely grim reading), and like others have said, some of the information given about Ted Bundy is inaccurate, which leads you to question the validity of the rest of the document. And, not only that, where did he get this so called background information on Ted, in the first place? These experiences he is supposed to have had are not mentioned in any of the books we’ve read. I looked on Amazon.com to see if he himself has written any books, and loads came up under his name. I think he is a fake. Read the reviews he has received, and you will see what i mean.

  19. Hi Deborah-

    I believe Bundy killed far more than those he owned up to. In my research, I have located reports that, while not connected with Bundy in any way, nevertheless, have his MO all over them.

    Take care

  20. Re:Vidor, post 1870:
    Being very familiar with the area Kathy Parks was in, when I spoke to her @ 11:05 PM the night she was abducted, and being that she was no more than 50 feet from the Memorial Union Commons Cafeteria, which was her destination, I cannot agree with your theory. There were simply NO shadows for him to hide in. As much as it goes against her nature, I tend to believe that Bundy was telling the truth on how he lured Kathy to his car. We were in a very public place, and even at that hour, there were many people walking by us as we spoke. I plan to take a trip to Corvallis in the next week or so, and I will take pictures of where Kathy and I were standing when we last spoke, (you can easily see the Commons building from there, it was basically just across the street), and the surrounding area. There is simply NOWHERE Kathy would have been walking in the area that there were not other people. I believe that he spoke to her in the Commons Cafeteria, and talked her into going with him. Her state of mind, the fact that she was high on hashish, and the location in question lead me to believe it could not have happened any other way.

    I believe the severe blow to her head happened later, after she was under his control, and possibly even after they got to Washington. I can’t “know” this, of course, but if I am able to get some pictures of the area of the campus we are speaking of, what I say will seem more plausable

    Lorraine

  21. God,
    Polish “Air Force One” with around 100 ppl onboard crashed in Russia. They were going to ceremony commemorating Polish POW massacre by Stalin in 1940

    And now all of them gone.

    President, First Lady, dozens of major politics.
    Sorry. for off-topic.. i am so shocked.

  22. hello
    The judge referred to was ,i believe,Kendell Sharp.He was presiding over several of Bundys’ appeals,including his competency hearing in 1987.Apparently,the proceedings annoyed him,as he made the comment that Bundy was not only competent ,but the most diabolical killer in the U.S.Therefore,he rejected the appeal,much to Teds chagrin.

  24. I’ve noticed that quite a few of the posters at this site have come to my site and uploaded the Multiagency Report on Bundy. That’s great and that’s what it’s there for but please take a look at the rest of the site while your at it I’d like to know if any of you have opinions as to whether or not Bundy could have committed any of the unsolved murders I have posted.

    Bundy did admit to at least one murder in California, that of a hitchhiker, maybe he actually did more. Jeanntte Kamahele, whose body was never found, may be the work of Bundy. It’s certainly not in stone that all of the murders were committed by the same person or persons.

  25. Barry–

    I don’t recall that statement, but that doesn’t mean I haven’t seen it and forgotten it too. But I don’t think Judge Cowart made the statement.

  26. Kris–

    I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in that article. That’s my opinion.

  27. Hi Kevin

    I read a news clipping where it mentioned a quote a federal judge presumely said to bundy.

    A federal judge once called him “the most competent serial killer in the country at this time . . . . a diabolical genius.”

    “a diabolical genius” u know if thers any truth to this and if it was judge Edward Cowart who said it

  28. Hi Kris

    That article u mentioned was gettin interesting until i read this bit

    “it was then that she (his mother) informed him, as they presumably lay together under the covers of their new bed, that she was not his “sister” but his mother”.

    We know this was not the way bundy found out about his mother being his sister as he checked records on his family history and found out that way.

    So on that point, much of that article is false saying ted being beating severly wen he was young an so on, so theres nothin really new in there we dont already know.

  29. Hi Kris! I just took a look at the article. Had to skip a few parts, as it made me feel quite sick! but i did read from where it mentioned Ted Bundy, and onwards from there. If these things did happen to Ted in his childhood, then it could explain a lot. But where, and via whom did this guy get his information from? Out of curiosity, i googled his name , and in a review he has written for a book on Amazon.com, he says that he is an expert on neuroscience, and that he has had dealings with stalkers, serial rapists, murderer’s (does this include Ted Bundy, by any chance?), and the criminally insane. Also, he has written many books, which you too will find on Amazon.com.
    Here are the links:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/A140HNG2GXT7RT

    http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&rh=i%3Astripbooks%2Cp_27%3ARhawn%20Joseph&field-author=Rhawn%20Joseph&page=1

  30. I have to bring to your attention this article I just read from Ph. D. Rhawn Joseph.
    Among many other interesting things, he claims:
    “What Ted didn’t know was that his mother had shamed her own parents, by becoming pregnant after a one night stand. Because of the conservative nature of the community in which they lived, and for proprieties sake, not just little Ted but the neighbors were made to believe that his mother’s parents, were in fact his own. Ted was given her parents name, and was therefore raised believing they were his parents. And strict “parents” they were for his “father” would become enraged at the slightest provocation, and would beat not just Ted but his mother, after which they would be banished to their room, where his mother would strip naked and then together they would hug and cuddle tearfully under the covers of their mutual bed.”
    Please take a look at the whole article. It can be found here (once you get there, scroll about half way down for the “Bundy” section to start):
    http://brainmind.com/SexKillers.html

    If this is true, it certainly opens the door to a bunch more thought about where a lot of Ted’s ideas about “naked woman and beatings/abuse” began tying together.
    I’d like to know who Rhawn got his information from? Art Norman? Diana Weiner? William Hagmiaer?

    Let’s start with this and we’ll get into some of the other things mentioned in this article after I hear your thoughts on this. Thanks!

  31. #1864–and that in fact is a strong indicator that he was lying about Kathy Parks as well. The scenario he “confessed” to consisted of luring a conscious and willing Parks into his VW. That doesn’t square with a big skull fracture. He probably just hid in the shadows some place and jumped her from behind. LIke I said, M&A really struck paydirt with their success in luring Ted into talking about his pathology, but he was BSing them when “confessing” to the details of his crimes.

    As for the pictures of Grandfather Cowell, that wouldn’t tell us anything if we had them, since a grandfather would be expected to resemble his grandson in any case. Much as the details of most of his murders will always be a mystery, so will the details of his parentage.

  32. Hi Everett–

    Yes, she did have a Spanish test the next day. I’ve spoken with Duane Covey (the last person to speak with Georgann only moments before she disappeared), and he confirmed this. I also have newspaper articles from the period which speak of this.

    And yes, it is very odd that both women had this in common.

    take care

  33. Hi Gray–

    I would love to see photos of Grandfather Cowell, but not for the reasons you might suspect. As I said recently on a radio show, I don’t believe the rumors about Cowell being his dad. I know some folks do (and I certainly don’t fault them over that), but I just doubt that was ever the case.

    take care

  34. Vidor: 1860 “All of that, all his remembrances of how the urge to kill took him over, rings true to me. The “confessions” of actual murders, not so much.”

    Kevin, I was wondering if you knew if Georgian Hawkins had a spanish test the next day? Seems odd that Kathy Parks had one as well. Perhaps TB’s recount of the Hawkins murder was not entirely accurate?

  35. Kevin: I assume you got my drift on the Grandfather Cowell photo question. Reluctance to disturb family members would justifiably inhibit efforts to recoup such photos. Nevertheless the curiosity remains. It would be of interest to note any “family resemblance” impressions in coming to tentative conclusions regarding Bundy’s true parentage.

  36. Monica–

    Yes, Mike Fisher is one excellent cop. He “dogged” Bundy without let up until he obtained a warrant for murder in the Caryn Campbell case. he’s the kind of detective, that, when he’s on the hunt (and he knows he’s on the right trail!) there’s just no stopping him. And I’m sure that after a while, Bundy knew what a problem he had in Mike Fisher.

  37. Vidor–

    I have the ME’s report concerning Kathy Parks, and it’s more than a crack in her skull: An entire piece is missing from it, and the ME said in his opinion, this was not due to an animal.

  38. Wow! I should have read that last post through thoroughly, before hitting the submit button, lol.

  39. Looking back, I still can’t quite believe that Ted Bundy managed to escape TWICE from captivity. In the case of his escape through an OPEN window of the library, in the Colorado courthouse, why weren’t precautions taken to prevent this, how could they be so lax? This was a highly dangerous and demented SERIAL KILLER, after all. Thankfully he was apprehended quickly, before he got to a chance to murder again. His second escape from The Garfield county jail though, was just…unforgivable! and for obvious reasons. As Kevin mentions in his book, the jailor’s were well aware of the ill-fitting light fixture in his cell (which aided his escape), and were INTENDING to have it fixed. This is just incredulous! Someone as dangerous as him, with an appetite for (and only for) destroying as many women (that met his particular requirements) that he could get his hands on. This fiend, once incarcerated, should NEVER have had the opportunity to do so. He had already taken countless lives ( just one was enough), and now he was free to kill the sleeping Chi Omega girls, and the beautiful, innocent little Kimberly (both heart-breaking!). Although the guilt firmly rests squarely upon Ted Bundy’s shoulders for these killings, One could be forgiven for thinking, in the mind of the victims families, that he wasn’t the only one responsible for their deaths.

    Hats off, though, to the all the investigators involved in the cases in various states, who did all they could to bring him to justice. I must say though, detective Mike Fisher stands out, for me in your book, Kevin, as being one intelligent, cool and determined cop.

  40. Oh, one more thing: I stumbled across another website that has a copy of the Ted Bundy Multiagency Investigative Team Report. The link given upthread was an Internet Archive link to the report when it was hosted at tedbundy.com, a website which has been defunct for some time. This copy is of poorer quality but still good enough to read. Anyway, should the Internet Archive link cease to work, here’s the link to the Report at the other website:

    http://santarosahitchhikermurders.com/downloads/Bundy_Multiagency_Team_Report.pdf

  41. Re: Ted in comment #1828…

    Here is something about a victim. This is a remarkable bit of writing, a remembrance of Margaret Bowman by a fellow named Thomas French, originally published in 1999 in the St. Petersburg Times.

    http://www.sptimes.com/News/112899/news_pf/Floridian/Margaret_Bowman__1957.shtml

    Re: #1798 on the veracity of Ted’s “confession” to the Parks murder…I think he was full of feces on many of his “speculations” with M&A. Take the Healy murder. He claims that he went into the house not having a victim in mind. That seems pretty unlikely, both because it would be recklessly stupid to simply wander through a boarding house, and because we have good reason to believe he was stalking Healy (Keppel mentions the receipts that proved Healy and Bundy were both in a convenience store at almost the same time). We know for a fact he lied about Brenda Ball, describing strangling her after consensual sex when in real life her skull was found with a huge crack in it. And while opinions differ about his claim to have kept Janice Ott and Denise Naslund together, I still don’t believe it. His confession to Polly Nelson, whom he trusted a lot more than he trusted M&A, that he killed Ott b/f seizing Naslund, certainly strikes me as more plausible.

    The bottom line is that we will never know how he approached Kathy Parks, just as we will never know how he approached Donna Manson, or Ball, Wilcox, Smith, Aime, Oliverson, and Curtis. Personally, I’d guess that he didn’t use the cripple routine, as that would have made him more visible and in fact people remembered the cripple routine in the murders of Rancourt and Hawkins as well as Lake Sammamish. But that’s just a guess. I think the M&A book is exceedingly valuable for Ted’s description of the development of his pathology. All of that, all his remembrances of how the urge to kill took him over, rings true to me. The “confessions” of actual murders, not so much.

    To Lorraine: thanks again for talking to us. Hopefully Bart’s rather creepy interest in Kathy Parks does not turn you off of this forum permanently, but if it has, thanks anyway for talking to us.

    Finally, here’s a Google News scan of an article about Chi Omega published Jan. 26, 1978. It’s amazing how much stuff you can find on Google News from the time period. Search for Susan Rancourt and you’ll find quite a few articles from the Anchorage Daily News. Anyway, here’s the AP on Chi O, from before Ted Bundy was even suspected.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1144&dat=19780126&id=vBkhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=91cEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6192,2728147

  42. Hi Kris–

    Thanks for the kind words about my book! (good questions, too).

    As far as I know, no bodies were ever found on Taylor Mt. If you go back and check page 127-128 of my book (I just did this, LOL!) I speak about the skulls found at this site, including the skull of Brenda ball. Apparently Bundy did a great amount of damage to her head, and I’m thinking he probably struck her at least several times . And frankly, he probably hit all of his victims more than once, but again, this is only my best guess.

    Bundy told Bob keppel he did in fact bury bodies (the locations he kept secret), and those bodies have never been found.

    In my opinion, he stopped decapitating women in Utah, and started taking intact bodies (Melissa Smith and others) to his apartment at 565 First Ave. Here he could do things in privacy, and these women were no doubt alive for a time (although perhaps in a coma) for a number of days prior to dying.

    I hope this helps.

  43. Hi Kevin,

    I certainly enjoyed the book. Been thinking about it, quite a lot in fact. I’m happy that this message board is here to continue the conversation and possibly get more answers.

    Sorry if I missed the answers to these questions in the book, which I don’t think I did, so I’d like to ask here.

    Were any of the bodies to the skulls found on Taylor Mtn ever found? Did ted ever confess to where the actual bodies are?

    Were each of the skulls found to have lots of fractures, as if they were beaten repeatedly with the crowbar instead of just 1 deadly blow?

    Why do you think that he stopped decapitating the victims once he got to Utah?

    Thanks for all your info.

  44. Thanks, Monica! You did a great job, and I’m not kidding when I say that I really appreciate the good words!!

  46. Hi Barry–

    I guess I would say that, until I met James Massie, I had a basic understanding of the case, but certainly nothing in-depth. After getting to know Jim, we talked about his association with Jerry Thompson, their long-standing friendship, and the valuable research he’s done on the Utah cases. I also learned of Jim’s connection with Ronald Holmes, the criminology professor from Louisville, and how he has contributed his knowledge of the Bundy case pertaining to Utah to some of Holmes’ books (Holmes always mentions Jim in the acknowledge section). They too have been friends for years. So you can say that I received an even more solid foundation as I got to know Jim..

    Gotta go for now…

  47. Hi Kevin

    Yeah nice blog u wrote there. Its interesting u named it “The book that should never have been written”.

    The circumstances that came about as u mentioned with the ted bundy murder kit. Very surreal indeed and just shows u that a small little moment in time in ur life can change it forever.

    Just a quick question kevin, did u know much about ted bundy before u crossed paths with Jerry Thompson. I mean did u just know the basics of wat u heard about him and what was written about him like everybody else knew. Did u have much interest or insight into bundy beforehand?

    Regards
    Barry

  49. Actually, i had every intention of doing just that. And, yes, you are totally shameless, but i won’t hold it against you, lol.

  50. Thanks, Monica, for the very kind words! I should hire you as my PR person, LOL!!

    You know, Monica, if you want to (hint, hint) you can go to Amazon.com, locate my book, and write a review; only if you want to, of course (he,he).

    And oh yes, be careful as you do so, ’cause your cursor may land on the 5 star rating as well!

    (Am I shameless, or what?LOL!)

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