Qu’est-ce que c’est?
It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.
Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.
Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?
The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.
Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)
Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.
ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?
I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.
From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.
Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.
The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?
The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.
But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.
Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?
Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.
You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?
They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.
I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?
They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.
Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way
How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?
Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.
However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.
Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.
* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.
Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:
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Video of Wildwood Inn, where Bundy abducted Caryn Campbell in 1975. (From Timmy)
Thread commenter Richard A. Duffus wrote a 2012 book about Ted Bundy, Ted Bundy: The Felon’s Hook (Excerpt | Image from the book)
Video interview of Kevin M. Sullivan (From Richard A. Duffus)
On this day..
- 1522: Didrik Slagheck
- 1887: Georgette and Sylvain Thomas, guillotine couples act
- 1981: Not Kim Dae-jung, South Korean president and Nobel laureate
- 1641: Not Manuel de Gerrit de Reus, chosen by lot, saved by hemp
- 1970: Three in Baghdad
- 1538: Anna Jansz, Anabaptist
- 1963: Lazhar Chraiti and nine other Tunisian conspirators
- 1846: Elizabeth Van Valkenburgh, in her rocking chair
- 1936: Allen Foster, who fought Joe Louis
- 1911: Shusui Kotoku and ten other anarchists
- Daily Double: The High Treason Incident
- 1938: Han Fuqu, Koumintang general
- 1992: Ricky Ray Rector, "a date which ought to live in infamy for the Democratic Party"
No one seems to be touching your question PAH, so I’ll give it a whirl. There would be no one in the world as interested in researching whether you saw Ted on that street back when as you. So do the research. Number 1, you need to narrow the time frame down. Figure out whether you were 10 or 11 and run down the date as close as is possible.
The following site has a pretty good timeline tracking Ted’s location at a specific time.
http://web.archive.org/web/20060621144017/tedbundy.com/errata/freebies/Ted+Bundy+Multiagency+Investigative+Team+Report+1992+from+tedbundy.com.pdf
If Ted was in jail or hundreds of miles away, it may be impossible that the person you saw was TRB.
There were only a few times in his life that Ted could have possibly taken a Texas sojourn. See if those “holes” in his time line match up to your incident.
Based on the sketchy information you’ve provided, I’d say it’s very doubtful TRB was the guy you saw that day, but you may find differently. Be aware of this, when you start researching sexual assault cases, you’ll find there are dozens of these cases that most people are unaware of. There were a whole herd of “Ted’s” running around the country in the early 70’s and many more cases of this kind of activity than you may have realized.
Good luck in your quest.
Yes, she was very attractive, with long, shapely legs and the requisite dark hair, parted in the middle. An irony not lost on Polly Nelson. She and Ted were ‘busted” for the flashing incident, so she was not allowed contact or unsupervised visits after that.
Ted willed his jailhouse possessions to Diana Weiner. The State of Florida sued Weiner for them, stating that these possessions were evidence in other criminal matters. Weiner was defended by her husband, who was also an attorney. She lost the case. The stuff was turned over to the State of Florida. The material eventually wound up being given to Bob Keppel.
Diana Weiner was brought into the case by Art Norman a psychologist who was examining Ted for the appeal. Weiner’s job was to explain the legal aspects of the exam for Bundy’s appeal. Actually, Norman had Weiner along to, er, “relax” Ted. Foir one of the visits, an observer noted that Weiner wore very little, with nothing on underneath it.
Read “Defending the Devil” on this, there is a lot on Weiner in the book.
One Weiner question more: What did she look like? Long dark hair parted in the middle? Lol… Verrrry funny…
Hi Topelius
Weiner used her position as Bundy’s civil attorney to make frequent visits to him while he was on Death Row. Overtime, they became closer and both became emotionally attached to one another. There are various stories and rumors about what happened between those two. One was that she exposed her breasts to him on one occasion. Anoher, which Kevin pointed out, was when she was patting his back when an investigator walked into the room. Towards the end of Bundy’s life, I believe there relationship moved from professional to a more intimate type.
There is alot of information on Weiner’s relationship with Bundy in Polly Nelsons book which I am sure you know anyway
Take Care
Jason
I never gave Bundy any thought until today. I saw a young picture of him and it gave me a start! Then I wondered what kind of car he drove. I nearly fell over when I found he had an affinity for VW Bugs. But the man who tried to coax me into his car so many years ago had a short/clean beard. If Bundy did not pass through Texas, his identical twin did.
When I was about 10 or 11, walking home from school one afternoon a tan VW passed me going the opposite direction. Not a regular car in my neighborhood. (The reason it is so memorable is below). About 1-2 minutes later the same tan VW stopped next me headed in the same direction as I was walking. A man identical to Bundy but with a beard (neatly trimmed) was at the wheel. He was asking me for directions. I was on the sidewalk. I was happy to tell him and did with perfect clarity. He said he couldn’t hear me and asked me to come closer. (His bug was idling). So I did, and repeated the directions. He said that he still couldn’t hear me and he pretended not to understand and asked me to come closer. Thought it odd but I stepped closer to the car – I was at the passerger window by then. But I did’t touch his car or get close enough for him to grab me. As I was in the middle of repeating the directions yet again, (and I thought it odd that he couldn’t understand or pretended not to understand the directions I was giving him because they were so d— clear.) I glanced into the car and he was joying himself while looking straight at me. I froze for 1/2 a second and turned and ran like the wind zigging and zagging through the houses and trees all the way home. We contacted the police and gave a report, but the cop seemed to show little interest. Today the police in this neighborhood would go into hyper-hunt mode. But back then this was a sleepy quiet safe place – so the cops didn’t get in a twist unless it was serious. Back then our local news did not thrive on carnage and I was a kid who rarely cared about the news thus, I knew nothing of killers. You may never find any evidence that he was in Texas (Houston). But either he or his identical twin scared the dolollies out of me when I was about 10.
Hi All!
What was the truth behind the relationship of Ted and his civil attorney Diana Weiner? Did she have deeper feelings for him?
For the record: I have not read Polly Nelson`s book.
Bye and thank you already!
Barry (sorry about the name cut off. Don’t know what happened, lol!)
Bar
No, I didn’t get weird and smell the mask, LOL! trying it on was just a spur-of-the-moment kind of thing.
There are no doubt many things we will never know about Ted Bundy, because he took (in my opinion) substantial secrets to the grave. But the digging I did for my book brought additional new (and by new, I mean known to only a few people) information concerning his life of murder; and I’m sure additional digging could produce other things as well.
Hi again Everyone.
Hey Kevin wen u tried on bundys mask did u get the sudden urge to murder anyone LOL only joke ha ha i wonder why ted never used the excuse that the mask made him kill ha like the mask was possessed lol
Well unless the owner of the shop tat bundy bought the mask from tried it on lol i guess Kevin u must be the only one besides bundy. I know it sounds a little odd kevin but did u sniff the hat did it smell of anything? not tat a hat smells nice anyways lol
On a more serious note yeah tat ice pick punture seems a major new step in bundys state of murders, his rage must of been uncomprehendable for him to do that. Bundy wanted to destroy his victims so i wudnt of put it past him.
Its amazing that after all these 20 years were still learning new things bout ted everyday. ive been studying him for good few years now and Im nearly turning into a bundy expert , i dont know if thats a good or bad thing though lol
Hi Topelius —
I have no idea. But because the belt was included in the kit, I’m assuming it was from a recent victim. It could be that the authorities found out who the owner was, or perhaps not. Yet it seems reasonable to me that at some point somebody wanted to know, just from investigative standpoint. But when I asked Jerry Thompson (the Utah investigator) he didn’t have any additional information either.
I would assume that the most bizarre item from the kit was that woman`s belt. It somewhat concretizes the monster behind Ted`s eyes.
Any suggestions on which victim that belt was taken from?
Take care folks.
Well, thank you, Laura, for the very kind words. It has been (and continues to be) my pleasure to converse with everyone, and I consider all the regulars just like friends since we’re talking all the time!
The mask has been in the possession of Jerry Thompson for many years now, sitting boxed up in his basement. When it was first confiscated from Bundy, it was around a lot of law enforcement officers at the Salt lake County Sheriff’s office, but I doubt if any of these guys tried it on; but maybe some did. Perhaps some of Thompson’s children have had it on, but it looks like it’s in the same shape and condition as it was in 1975, so I don’t think it’s spent a whole lot of time outside the bag. But no matter how many have worn the mask, it was very surreal putting it over my face, LOL!
I hit submit too fast too!! I wanted to add that it’s been a great thread and so informative so thanks to kevin and everybody else who has contributed. You’v been very patient and forthcoming Kevin and it’s been a real pleasure for an author to spend so much time answering questions etc!
It’s a good story, what a little find too your priveleged (if that is the correct word!) to have been entrusted with such items, can only imagine how exciting it must have been when you realised you were going to be allowed to take them home.
I think if it was me I’d have wanted to try it on, but not sure if I could or not, looking through the holes for eyes and wondering what sights have been seen from that point. Must have been surreal and yes I wonder if you and Bundy are the only two to have worn that! Are you aware of how many people could have been in the situation to actually try it on?
Well, I must have hit submit accidentally.
Anyway, trying on the mask was nothing more than acting on a thought, but in retrospect, I remember thinking later that besides Bundy, I may be the only one to have tried on his mask. Kinda surreal, isn’t it?
Yes, the snow does get a little old, LOL!
See ya
Hey Laura–
The mask deal was funny. And I guess I should say that I’m not taking anything away from the horrendous way these things were used, and Bundy was, of course, as evil as they come. But on the night I brought that stuff in the house, the family was shocked. My son looked at me like he couldn’t believe it. My daughter, on the other hand, jumped right in and she and her boyfriend started helping me arrange things for the pictures, etc. Well, my wife looked perturbed at it all (not with what I was doing, but was feeling a little creepy looking at the stuff,LOL!), so I asked her if she wanted me to put the mask on, grab the rope,
and chase her around the house? Of course, I was joking, and of course, it was in “bad taste”, but those who know me understand my humor. But she said no, and so I just tried the mask on anyway.
Hi Kevin
That’s interesting, would be curious to find out whether it happened before or after death for sure.
I still cannot believe you wore the mask, it’s a strange thought for sure.
Very cold here in Scotland, -22 in some parts, we have reached -16 at the moment the snow is knee deep. Good fun over xmas but causing chaos with the roads etc.
Hi Laura–
Good question. I don’t know, but I assumed when I read this, that perhaps it was after death, or at least after she had been whacked in the head. I’m sure their is an autopsy report out there which states whether the puncture is postmortem or not.
I examined the ski mask rather closely when it was in my home, and I didn’t see any stains, but that in itself doesn’t mean anything. Who knows when Ted used it? But we know it was an important element of his murder kit, or it wouldn’t have been there in the first place. Believe me, it wasn’t for skiing, LOL!
Hope you’re staying warm over there, as it’s snowy and extremely cold over here!
That’s interesting Kevin, I havent read that before or maybe have and just never stored it. Do you know were these wounds inflicted when the victims were alive or after they had been killed by Bundy?
Re: balaclava for some reason my first thought regaridng this was it to stop blood from getting on his face too when he attacked these girls? May sound a silly theory but instantly this is what I thought. There must have been a fair amount of blood given the nature of their attack and death…was there any on the mask/balaclava or were they ever tested for such?
I can’t remember in which book I read this (and it may have been a research document) but one of the victims had a puncture wound in her abdomen that is consistent with an ice pick. And I agree with KYGB that Bundy had a reason for everything in his little bag of tricks, and said items were used over and over again.
I think Ted used every item in his little kit bag. That’s why he was lugging that stuff around. One of his little kicks was scaring women. The balaclava would defintiely scare the victim, if her surprised her somewhere. he also could have used the balaclava when invading a home to rob it. We don’t know if he did this, but I feel it’s a pretty good bet that he did. The balaclava would prevent easy identification if he was spotted in a home.
As any fan of Goodfellas know, an ice pick is a pretty lethal weapon. I think that little tool was used once or twice in his murder escapades. All of this is speculation on my part, but it would make sense that Ted would bring all his tools into use at one point or another.
W from the Netherlands–
Thanks so much for the kind words! I’m glad to hear you’re enjoying the book, as that was my intention for all of my readers. Give it a second read, and you might even see some things you missed the first time.
P.S. I visited your fine country in 1974, and I enjoyed it immensely.
Take care,
Kevin
KYGB: –
Your right, it is possible that Bundy was committing burglaries with the balaclava but I am sure he was not using it with the same significance as he did in relation to murder. I always thought Bundy preferred to steal from shops and possibly pick pocket people rather than enter people’s houses and take goods even though it cannot be ruled out that he didnt committ burglaries while he was committing murders. Like Kevin, I would think how would Bundy have gone about committing his crimes and I thought a balaclava would have come in handy if he was entering houses for whatever purposes. That is when I thought about the Lynda Healy abduction.
That is true. Bundy could have been using the balaclava in the cold season and against unsuspecting prey. However, in relation to the latter, he would not need to use a balaclava against his victims since this would cause attention to himself. Just using his charm and looks were enough to convince a girl to go with him.
Hi Kevin,
A message from the Netherlands 🙂 I just wanted ot say i find your book a very well written one though sinister and horrific. I’m well away finishing it for the first time after only two days reading.
I think the chapter concerning the Chi-omega murders as well as the murder on Kim Leach was very interesting to read especially because, i think, you wrote about the crimes in a much more detailed way than the other books known about Bundy.
Take care,
W.
Jason–
It is certainly possible he had the ski mask on when he did the Healy abduction. of course, there is no sure way for us to know, but I have always assumed he wore it during the dragging of the bodies into the woods during the cold season, and perhaps maybe while attacking someone at night and in an area where he could be seen. In retrospect, it would have been nice had someone (M&A, Holmes, etc) asked Bundy to elaborate on this. even in the third-person, as they did with the murders, but I guess it never came to mind. But one thing is certain: Bundy included everything in that kit that he would need for his diabolical work, and I’m sure he incorporated each item on a regular basis.
Say, have you noticed that the mask has an almost sinister look? I remember my wife thought it was awful that I put the mask on once before I had to return the kit to Jim Massie, who then gave it back to Jerry Thompson. Anyway, I may be the only person to have had that mask on besides Bundy (as Jerry and the other detectives probably did not) and that does make a bit odd, LOL!
See ya,
Kevin
That kit was used for murder AND robbery. Ted probably did some home invasions. The balaclava would be a good disguise when he was out creepy crawlin’. Ted was obviously a pretty good thief. He was only caught stealing in FL (credit cards) and UT (DaRonch).
Yeah I remember hearing that part when I saw the film The Deliberate Stranger. Bundy either thought he would avoid detection in Florida or he wanted to die.
I have got another question regarding Ted’s murder kit. Inside that kit, there is a balaclava but I was thinking what would he use the balaclava for? His general M.O was to approach women with his charm and to try and convince them to go with him and clearly a balaclava was not needed here. I was thinking do you think it was used in the Lynda Healy abduction? If you think about it, if he wore a balaclava, once he was inside the house, picked her up and carried her out to his VW, no one would know it was him thus minimising the risk he took. I think it was in Ann Rules book where there was a report of a man wearing a balaclava entering a young girls house in Seattle and raping her. The young girl later said that the man was well spoken and had wavy brown hair and she later suggested it was Ted Bundy.
Just a thought.
Jason
Good question, Barry!
It’s been a long time, but I think I read that in the Larsen book. Anyway, some people disregard it altogether, and I’m not sure why. The statement speaks of the veiled desire to be put to death, as if he couldn’t stop himself from killing. But before anyone totally disavows this little question, they also need to grapple with his often strong desire to confess to his crimes to Florida investigators, and his almost out-right confession to Liz when he telephoned her after his capture in Pensacola.
It is interesting to think about.
Hi again folks
yeah Kevin i agree with you there if bundy really wanted to continue a normal life he would of stayed with diane.
An interesting thing i read today in a book was about ted concerned about executions in 1976. this is a conversation he had with his lawyer when he was in jail in aspen in 76.
“whats going on with executions now” ted asked
“where are most people likely to get executed now?”
“i suppose it might be georgia……No”, bundys lawyer corrected himself. “itd probably be Florida now”
“Florida,” murmured Bundy “Florida Hmmm”
Whats most interesting here Kevin, is knowing this why did Ted Bundy travel all the way from colorado to Florida to kill somebody. I guess Ted simply believed he never would get the death penalty anywhere.
Jason–
Yes, it does seem like a coincidence at first glance. And I understand how a stressful experience can “set off” behavior, and become a type of catalyst to do certain things. But if you look at the overall period of that late fall, and how Bundy was clearly “setting up” Ms. Edwards, as he had no intention of contacting her after becoming engaged to her, you can see the ruse in play, as it were. This is why she was so irate with him when she called him. In her mind, things were okay between them, and he had in fact “won her over” again. This being the case, Ted could have put off any plans of murder, and developed a life with Diane; even if that life meant putting on the mask in a new way to please her. See my point? He had Diane. He could have continued the lie of his life, but in fact, he didn’t care about continuing that particular lie any longer. He was headed to the ultimate of living (in his demented mind, that is!) and that was the slaughtering of innocent young women. By this time in his life (no matter what had happened prior to this time: did he murder, or not?) Bundy was leaving one life behind and entering another. He was at peace with himself, and he didn’t care in the least that he and Diane would not be together. This, in my opinion, is very clear from the record.
JRJ
What I mean by someone else is simply that those who he fantasied about hurting would change to someone else over time.
Kevin: –
I agree. Bundy was going to become the diobolical murderer he was, either if he was with or without Diane. Bundy talked to Michaud in the third person about entering some houses and trying to restrain young girls while they were in bed (putting a pillow against their face etc). This allegedly occured before his launch into murder and either before or during the time he was courting Diane. I kind of agree with JRJ in that how can it be a coincidence that he committed his first officlal murder only days or weeks after the break up.
JRJ–
As I stated in the above post, the second break up was planned by Bundy, and he wasn’t under any type of duress. It was all about getting even, and his life was set to go in another direction (murder) and Bundy knew this.
Jason–
You may be correct, but consider this: Bundy, even up till the end, was looking for someone or something to blame for his launch into murder. During the Dobson interview, he blamed pornography, and any references he made to Dr. Lewis, were (in my opinion) just another attempt to cast blame on others for what he became. I’m sure Bundy didn’t like what happened between him and Edwards, but I just don’t see it as the catalyst which made all of this possible. That would be like saying that, had Bundy gotten married to her, he’d never become an insatiable killer. I just don’t believe that is true.
Take care, Jason.
kevin
-Kevin, look at this way. He spends the fall of 73 wooing and ‘engaging’ Diane full throttle. Following their final breakup he then goes on a spree in which he kills at least 8 women in 6 ½ months; do you really think that was just coincidental. I remember Bundy talking in one of the books (Only Living Witness?) about the devastation of unrequited love.
-Jason who was that someone else –do tell!!!
JRJ, Kevin : –
Although Diane Edwards wasnt the primary source which spurred Bundy to commit murder, I believe that their break up had something, however small, to do with his violent fantasies and him acting out. I base that opinion on what he told Dorothy Lewis the night before he was executed. Bundy had stated that after him and Diane split up, he started to fall behind on his studies in Stanford University and began to indulge even more in pornography and masturbation as a way of dealing with the emotional pain he was going through. He then started to have fantasies about harming Stephanie and over time, it would change. Although this occured in 1969, its clear that Bundy had feelings for Diane right up until they broke up again in 1973. They were in contact and he even mentioned how he felt torn between both Liz Kendall and Diane to Ann Rule in 1971 (According to her book).
I believe that after he broke up with Diane for the last time, he took out his pain on his first official victim (or victims if you include Joni Lenz) who funnily enough looked strikingly similar to Diane based on descriptions that are avaliable. It was only over time that the main victim in his fantasies would shift to someone else.
Well that is my opinion 🙂
Jason
Hi JRJ-
I don’t think the break up with Diane Edwards (her real name) had anything to do with Bundy’s launch into murder. In fact, his second break up in late December ’73 was planned all along. Just as Diane had rejected him the first time, Bundy was now rejecting her; a get-even sort of thing, and I cover this in my book. Indeed, the road which led Bundy to commit these murders was a road that he himself paved with constant and perverse violent fantasies, and It was this type of thinking that birthed a diabolical murderer. In my opinion, no human -man or woman – contributed to his outcome. He decided to take a depraved path in life, and we all know the results of such a decision.
Take care,
Kevin
It’s been postulated here (and I agree) that while Bundy may have murdered prior to Jan 74, this marked the launchpoint of his career as a serial killer. My question revolves around what role the final breakup with his ex ‘Stephanie’ on January 1st may played as a catalyst in his predations.
Granted, he had been psychopathic since childhood and was certainly already a murderer, but what EXACTLY set him off at that point in time; if it was his breakup with Stephanie, what would be your best guess as to what the intrapersonal dynamics were and how this played out in his mind?
“I can’t believe Ted got convicted.”
Luckily the jurors at his trials weren’t dumb enough to believe he went back to Aspen after escaping all the way to Pocatello, Idaho.
I can’t believe Ted got convicted. He had a perfect alibi for every one of those murders: “I was home alone and all those people who saw me were mistaken.”
“Vidor, if that’s the height of stupidity, then believing the word of a known liar who can’t even get his story straight over that of professional law enforcement officers is so far off the scale I don’t think there’s a word for it.”
Well, see, that’s not it. We know he was in the cabin on Aspen Mountain, and we know he was captured in the city of Aspen. Those are things we don’t need to take Ted’s word on.
You, for your part, believe that Ted made it all the way to Pocatello within 24 hours of his escape, and then returned to Aspen. That is deeply stupid.
I’m not saying anyone’s lying. That’s the criteria for perjury. The people that saw Ted in WY and ID were mistaken. There were more sightings of guys that resembled Ted that June all over the place.
Ted Bundy did not make it out of the big valley in Pitkin County that June. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
The Pocatello encounter was reported to the FBI only after after Bundy’s execution. The woman recognized him from his picture in the paper the next day but, for obvious reasons, she was afraid to report it until he was dead.
KYGB, are you saying they committed perjury?
Vidor, if that’s the height of stupidity, then believing the word of a known liar who can’t even get his story straight over that of professional law enforcement officers is so far off the scale I don’t think there’s a word for it.
Vidor, I think the FBI pursued those “out of Colorado” sightings of Ted to get the warrants they needed to chase him. An unlawful flight to avoid prosecution warrant was isssued on Ted in June 9 1978. It was based on a sighting in Riverton WY. I’d think that one and Pocatello were considered good sightings and remain in the record. The FBI knew dern well Ted had never been in Idaho or Wyoming in his flight from jail, but they got escape warrants so they could join the case.
Here’s Ted FBI file via FOIA:
http://foia.fbi.gov/bundy/bundy1a.pdf
“Do you really think the good folks at the FBI got it wrong?”
If they think he was in Pocatello, Idaho, on June 8, 1977, then yes, yes they did. It’s the height of stupidity to imagine that Bundy would have made it all the way to Pocatello in 24 hours, only to go BACK TO ASPEN MOUNTAIN and thence back into the town where he was caught.
You’re a nice guy, Richard, and I consider us friends!
I’m crushed! FBI guys have always been my heroes. Well, I guess we stand at odds on this issue. Thanks for the compliment. Humor helps diffuse tension.
Richard-
If the FBI thinks he was in Wyoming at that time, then yes, they are absolutely wrong. There isn’t any way (had Bundy made it that far) he would have returned to Colorado. Also, I’m sure the FBI changed their tune once Bundy was apprehended after returning like a homing pigeon to the same clump of earth from which he had fled.
P.S. I like your statement about Bundy and the Salt Lake City airport! You’re funny, Richard!
1. I don’t see what that has to do with where he went.
2. He was consistent within his story once he was rested and worked it all out.
3. But his story was not consistent with his off-the-cuff comments made in the heat of the moment of his capture.
4. Yeah, he could have gone stgraight to Salt Lake City Airport and grabbed a plane. Nobody would have noticed. LOL
5. He wanted to go east but had to go west first. There’s very little chance of succeeding with that plan because it puts him in the part of the country where he is best known when the heat comes on. The chances of success were better if he broke it into two steps: first go west to do whatever then return and let things cool down, second, go east for good.
Do you really think the good folks at the FBI got it wrong?
Could we say that it’s the proverbial ‘one in a million’? But truthfully, I couldn’t even believe those odds. Let’s take a quick peak into those 5 days. But before I do, let me broach the subject of eye witnesses in general: They are almost entirely wrong, no matter what case or situation we could talk about. I probably have close to 65 plus pages with the statements of apparently well-meaning people who “saw” Susan Rancourt, Brenda ball, Donna Manson,and ALL of Ted’s victims running about long after they were dead. They only shut up after the remains of the girls were discovered. Can you imagine how hindered the police become when they are forced to investigate these “sightings”? Everybody wants to play a part, I guess.
Now to Ted’s wilderness experience:
1. He was injured in the jump from the 2nd floor of the courthouse; this would eventually slow him down.
2. He was very consistent in his story of passing up the cabin the first time, and then returning to it later; as well as his being eventually beaten by the wilderness experience.
3. He was losing weight like crazy, and his mental ability to function properly was diminishing quickly, making a successful escape all but impossible.
4. Pocatello is a long way from Colorado, and as I said before, had he made it there, he would have kept going.
5. He also would have had to have reached Pocatello by the day after his escape, (as this is the date given by this woman) and we know this didn’t happen. Why didn’t it happen, you ask (LOL)? Because, had he made it to Pocatello, he wouldn’t have returned to Colorado, and, he wouldn’t have been about dead on his feet as he was, and he wouldn’t have been caught driving HWY 82 that morning, as you know.
In other words, Richard, this lady is just flat (and absolutely!) wrong about Bundy being there. She might as well have said she saw him in Paris France. It would have made as much sense.
I’m sure she’s a nice lady. But nice people are wrong all the time.
See ya
Ted said he wandered around lost for six days.
The record says:
– He was tracked by hounds to a road where they lost the trail (they couldn’t pick it up on the other side).
– Ann Rule received three dead air phone calls on the evening of 6/7/77 (just like the ones after the Healy disappearance). She said she heard highway sounds in the background.
– The FBI obtained a federal warrant on 6/9 after learning that Ted had been spotted by a police informant in Riverton, WY. They swore before a federal magistrate that they believed he had fled the state. They are neither fools nor perjurors.
– Ted’s fingerprints were found in the cabin the morning of 6/11 placing him there no later than that date. Unless fingerprints have little timestamps, they do not prove he was there on 6/8.
– Upon his recapture, Ted stated he got only 10 or 12 hours of sleep the whole six days. When telling the story of his escape to M&A he accounted for at least 21 of those 10 or 12 hours in the first three days alone.
I agree he would have wanted to go in the oppoite direction. But we can’t always have what we want.