Qu’est-ce que c’est?
It was 20 years today that Ted Bundy, the signature sexual psychopath in a golden age of serial killers,* rode the lightning in Florida’s Starke Prison.
Executed Today is pleased to mark the occasion with a conversation with Louisville crime writer Kevin M. Sullivan, author of a forthcoming2009 book on Ted Bundy … and a man who knows how the world looks from inside Bundy’s ski mask.
Ted Bundy is obviously one of the most iconic, written-about serial killers in history. Why a book about Ted Bundy? What’s the untold story that you set out to uncover?
The desire, or drive, if you will, to write an article about Ted Bundy and then create a 120,000 plus word book about the murders, was born out of my crossing paths with his infamous murder kit. Had Jerry Thompson [a key detective on the Bundy case -ed.] left Bundy’s stuff in Utah that May of 2005, well, it would have been an enjoyable meeting with the former detective, but I’m certain it would have all ended quietly there. Indeed, I doubt if I’d even considered writing an article for Snitch [a now-defunct crime magazine -ed.], much less a book about the killings. But it was having all that stuff in my hands, and in my home, and then being given one of the Glad bags from Ted’s VW that made it very real (or surreal) to me, and from this, a hunger to find out more about the crimes led me forward.
Ted Bundy’s gear, right where you want it — image courtesy of Kevin M. Sullivan. (Check the 1975 police photo for confirmation.)
Believe me, in a thousand years, I never would have expected such a thing to ever come my way. I can’t think of anything more odd or surreal.
ET: You mentioned that you think you’ve been able to answer some longstanding questions about Bundy’s career. Can you give us some hints? What don’t people know about Ted Bundy that they ought to know?
I must admit, when I first decided to write a book about the crimes, I wasn’t sure what I’d find, so the first thing I had to do was read every book ever written about Bundy, which took the better portion of three or four months.
From this I took a trip to Utah to again meet with Thompson and check out the sites pertaining to Bundy and the murders in that state. Next came the acquisition of case files from the various states and the tracking down of those detectives who participated in the hunt for the elusive killer.
Now, no one could have been more surprised than me to begin discovering what I was discovering about some of these murders. But as I kept hunting down the right people and the right documents, I was able to confirm these “finds” at every turn. And while I cannot reveal everything here, It’s all in the book in great detail. Indeed, you could say that my book is not a biography in the truest sense, but rather an in-depth look at Bundy and the murders from a vantage point that is quite unique. I wish I could delve further into these things now , but I must wait until it’s published.
The Bundy story has a magnetic villain and a host of victims … was there a hero? Was there a lesson?
The real heroes in this story are the detectives who worked day and night for years to bring Ted Bundy to justice. And if there’s a lesson to be learned from all of this, it is this: It doesn’t matter how handsome or articulate a person might be, or how nicely they smile at you, for behind it all, there could reside the most diabolical person you’ll ever meet! We need to remember this.
But how can you act on that lesson without living in a continual state of terror? Bundy strikes me as so far outside our normal experience, even the normal experience of criminality, that I’m inclined to wonder how much can be generalized from him.
Actually, (and I might say, thank God here!) people as “successful” as Ted Bundy don’t come our way very often. I mean, the guy was a rising star in the Republican Party in Washington, had influential friends, a law student, and certainly appeared to be going places in life. Some were even quite envious of his ascension in life. However, it was all a well-placed mask that he wore to cover his true feelings and intentions. On the outside he was perfect, but on the inside a monster. He just didn’t fit the mold we’re used to when we think of a terrible killer, does he?
Now, there are those among us — sociopaths — who can kill or do all manner of terrible things in life and maintain the nicest smile upon their faces, but again, just beneath the surface ticks the heart of a monster, or predator, or what ever you might want to call them. Having said that, I’m not a suspicious person by nature, and so I personally judge people by their outward appearance until shown otherwise. Still, it’s difficult (if not impossible) to see the “real” individual behind the person they present to us on a daily basis.
You worked with case detectives in researching your book. How did the Ted Bundy case affect the way law enforcement has subsequently investigated serial killers? If they had it to do over again, what’s the thing you think they’d have done differently?
They all agree that today, DNA would play a part of the investigation that wasn’t available then. However, in the early portion of the murders, Bundy made few if any mistakes, as he had done his homework so as to avoid detection. As such, even this wouldn’t be a panacea when it came to a very mobile killer like Bundy who understood the very real limitations sometimes surrounding homicide investigations.
I can’t help but ask about these detectives as human beings, too. Clearly they’re in a position to deal with the heart of darkness in the human soul day in and day out and still lead normal lives … is a Ted Bundy the kind of killer that haunts or scars investigators years later, or is this something most can set aside as all in a day’s work?
They are, first of all, very nice people. And you can’t be around them (either in person, or through numerous phone calls or emails) for very long before you understand how dedicated they are (or were) in their careers as police officers. They are honorable people, with a clear sense of duty, and without such people, we, as a society, would be in dire circumstances indeed.
Even before Bundy came along, these men were veteran investigators who had seen many bad things in life, so they carried a toughness which allowed them to deal with the situations they came up against in a professional manner. That said, I remember Jerry Thompson telling me how he looked at Ted one day and thought how much he reminded him of a monster, or a vampire of sorts. And my book contains a number of exchanges between the two men (including a chilling telephone call) which demonstrate why he felt this way
How about for you, as a writer — was there a frightening, creepy, traumatic moment in your research that really shook you? Was there an emotional toll for you?
Absolutely. But the degree of “shock”, if you will, depends (at least for me) on what I know as I first delve into each murder. In the Bundy cases I had a general knowledge of how Bundy killed, so there wasn’t a great deal that caught me by surprise, as it were. Even so, as a writer, you tend to get to know the victims very well through the case files, their family members or friends, and so on. Hence, I’ll continue to carry with me many of the details of their lives and deaths for the remainder of my life. And so, lasting changes are a part of what we do.
However, I did a story a few years back about a 16 year old girl who was horribly murdered here in Kentucky, and this case did cause me to wake up in the night in a cold sweat. Perhaps it was because I have a daughter that was, at the time, only a few years younger than this girl, and that some of what transpired did catch me off guard, so to speak, as I began uncovering just what had happened to this very nice kid.
Watch for Kevin M. Sullivan’s forthcoming The Bundy Murders: A Comprehensive History from McFarland in summer or fall of 2009.
* In fact, the term “serial killer” was coined in the 1970’s by FBI profiler Robert Ressler, as an improvement on the sometimes inaccurate category of “stranger killer”.
Additional Bundy resources from the enormous comment thread:
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Video of Wildwood Inn, where Bundy abducted Caryn Campbell in 1975. (From Timmy)
Thread commenter Richard A. Duffus wrote a 2012 book about Ted Bundy, Ted Bundy: The Felon’s Hook (Excerpt | Image from the book)
Video interview of Kevin M. Sullivan (From Richard A. Duffus)
On this day..
- 1522: Didrik Slagheck
- 1887: Georgette and Sylvain Thomas, guillotine couples act
- 1981: Not Kim Dae-jung, South Korean president and Nobel laureate
- 1641: Not Manuel de Gerrit de Reus, chosen by lot, saved by hemp
- 1970: Three in Baghdad
- 1538: Anna Jansz, Anabaptist
- 1963: Lazhar Chraiti and nine other Tunisian conspirators
- 1846: Elizabeth Van Valkenburgh, in her rocking chair
- 1936: Allen Foster, who fought Joe Louis
- 1911: Shusui Kotoku and ten other anarchists
- Daily Double: The High Treason Incident
- 1938: Han Fuqu, Koumintang general
- 1992: Ricky Ray Rector, "a date which ought to live in infamy for the Democratic Party"
Can I ask if Bundy’s “greatest love” – found, lost, re won and dumped – Diane Edwards – by maiden name (Stephanie Brooks) is alive?
If yes – this lady must be in mid-sixties – as she was a little older than Bundy.
Did she ever give any interview or statement on Bundy?
Did she ever talk to any “Bundy author”?
I have never found anything like that – as I have a some impression that Diane maybe have talked to Anne Rule.
Another question – now regarding Liz Kloepfer.
Ann Rule says in her book: “The daughter of a prominent Utah doctor, she was on the rebound from a disastrous
marriage which had foundered when she learned that her husband was a convicted felon. Meg had divorced him and taken her daughter to Seattle to make a new life.”
Elsewhere I read that Liz ex-husband turned out to be a killer.
Is it true – if yes – this woman has exceptional bad luck for the guys.
I believe Ron Holmes interviewed this Stano fellow back in the 1980’s, if my memory serves me correctly.
Not gratuitous, Headsman! Incidentally, I know the real Gerald Stano was executed, but I think his father was too – was he another Gerald?
Gerald Stano is another Executed Today client.
/gratuitous cross-linking
Denise, that Crime & Justice board was a pretty good one. It’s defunct now, but had some good stuff on it re: The Bundy case. As far as the information from the guy who claimed to be a CO at FSP in Raiford Florida, I feel he was a 100% phony.
There were two posts he made which lead me to this conclusion. 1. He claimed that Ted did not rape any of his victims. He made those claims based on information from statements Ted made from the row. I simply can’t imagine anyone in Law Enforcement making a statement like that, especially from the criminal himself.
2. The poster said his real name was Gerald Stano. That was also the name of a then-famous serial Killer on Death Row in Florida. “Gerald Stano” the poster claimed that was his real name and it was a huge co-incidence that he and the murderer shared the same name.
That did it for me. Even though some of “Gerald Stano”‘s posts rang true, I simply tossed the whole batch out. A few months ago, Crime & Justice went to Cynber heaven and that’s basically the end of it.
Can I ask are there and – if yes – where are available transcripts of Bundy’s confessions from his last days?
Specially, they were crucial – and they were meant as kind of starting point to buy his more time.
Quality of sound in audio version versions is not too good to me – as I am not native English speaker.
regards
Bart
Hi Denise,
First, thanks for the kind words!
Concerning researching: Never assume everything has been discovered about any case, or situation, you might be investigating. Had I listened to some around me when I started the book on Bundy, I wouldn’t have written it, as they were telling me that “Bundy’s been done to death”, etc. In their view, there was nothing left to uncover. Well, they were very wrong about that, as I uncovered many new things about the case, and brought to light new information about several of the murders. So when it comes to researching, I say, never assume anything!
Now, concerning Bundy’s feelings about Mike Fisher and Jerry Thompson: Despite what Bundy said prior to those statements he made at the end, I believe he respected all of the investigators who chased him, no matter who they were, or what state they were from. Mike Fisher told me how Bundy would openly insult him to reporters and others when he referred to when discussing what Fisher was trying to do to him. Yet, towards the end, Bundy spoke and acted normally towards Fisher, and I have some interesting info at the end of my book concerning this.
With Thompson (and all of Utah, really) Bundy had many bad feelings, as they (Utah) and he (Thompson) were the ones to expose Bundy to the world as the killer of the women of the Northwest and beyond, and that’s something he had a great deal of trouble getting over. Still, he respected Thompson, for he knew what a good job he had done in catching him. And really, at the end, Bundy held no ill will towards anyone who had helped place him on death row — detectives, prosecutors, judges, etc, for he understood they were just doing their jobs.
Denise,
Thank you very much for information.
I am also interested in TD – but I still have many gaps to fill in.
BTW – Although I live in Poland – one of my best friends is Aussie – and I am seeing him almost everyday – and because of him and his stories – I can sometimes feel as if Poland and Australia are neighoboring countries 🙂
Bart, something else I remembered: on the Crime & Justice board which doesn’t seem to exist any more, a former prison officer from TB’s last prison, Starke, in Florida, commented that one day when he came on duty, another guard reported to him that he’d heard grunting sounds coming from TB’s cell.
On investigating, the officer found TB lying on his stomach ‘strangling’ a wet wash cloth between his hands.
Bob Keppel said that TB was ‘consumed with thoughts of murder 24 hours a day’, and that is a very telling story in support of Keppel’s comment.
Hi Kevin –
I started out reading about TB because I really wondered how anyone could kill and kill again…most of us couldn’t even think of doing it once. I’ve since also read about Gary Ridgway and Peter Sutcliff, the Yorkshire Ripper. I now understand something about fantasies going too far and acting them out becoming addictive.
I find all of them disgusting and also wish they’d been run over by buses. I’ll read anything new about either TB or GR, but the last time someone handed me a book about serial killers because he’d found he couldn’t take it, I realised I couldn’t take any more either.
You’re very brave go on with this kind of writing, but it’s apparent from reviews and comments that you have tremendous researching skills.
Without giving anything away from your book, if you can: I know TB loathed Mike Fisher, but didn’t he also loathe Jerry Thompson? Was that because Thompson also hounded him?
Bart, the interview about Georgeann Hawkins took place on Friday January 20th 1989, the Friday before TB was executed on the following Tuesday morning. Keppel also had another interview with TB on the Sunday night (22nd) before the execution. These were part of TB’s confessions to law enforcement officers with which he hoped to buy time – 3 years – to stave off his own death: 2 years of debriefing and 1 as a reward (!)
Strangely enough, I had never listened to Bundy confession on Georeann Hawkings abduction and killing until yesterday on youtube.
Can anybody tell me when this interview was made?
And to whom – to Rober Keppel?
Was it really his “last interview” in 1989?
He was remembering so many things and details, and he sounded excited with reliving them “aloud”
, chuckling from time to time (“She was hallucinating.. She thought I am sent to help her with Spanish test.. Spanish test.. you know..).
How can I possibly think he might not remember those murders? While incarcerated he must have reliving what he had done – and fantasing – million times.
What a mutant.
How about “I did, however, FEEL…”
Hi Denise,
Well, I never had any problems learning about all of Bundy’s diabolical activities; at least not in the sense you may think. I did, however, felt absolutely disgusted at times just thinking about what he had done. I remember too, feeling like it would have been a great thing had a bus hit and killed Bundy in late 1973, lol!!!
Yes, I will (and am) writing about other killers. As to Michaud, I believe that meeting Bundy, and writing two books about him, was the highlight of his career. I mean, how often does a writer get a chance to do something like that? Still, I’m sure he feels disgusted about Bundy most every time he thinks of him.
Take care,
Kevin
Hi Kevin and everyone else –
I’ve been reading this site for some time as, although I’m an Aussie, I’ve been fascinated by TB since I first heard of him a few years ago, so have all the books (except Kevin’s, but I’ll be sure to get that!).
Thanks so much Lorraine for your brave contributions here. Anything and everything that makes TB’s victims come alive to us in the ways you have made Kathy live again for us is a triumph: the victim rising like a phoenix from the ashes.
Kevin, a question for you that a couple of other people have skated near, and bearing in mind what Michaud said in TOLW about ‘such distilled evil never leaves you’ of his experience of being up close to TB’s ‘speculations’: did you ever feel uncomfortably close to Ted’s head or his thinking? I ask because as a fiction writer I know what it’s like to live in characters’ heads, and I refuse to do it with some of them! I also warned a friend when she started writing a book about a serial killer in France that she might come too close to him though he’s been dead 50+ years, and she said that did happen (though unfortunately she seems to have become fond of him).
And/or whether you’d ever want to do it again with another killer? Michaud, for example, says he never wants to do it again, though he did write another book on another serial killer he never met.
OK, thanks,
Look I gotta learn how to navigate through Kind County online archives and to surf through criminal files.
I DID had a look at them – but very superfiicial.
God, I also need time – but I have my duties regarding my work and my family.
As my Father used to say “Let’s assume 24 hours last 100 hours – and then I barely manage to do 1/3 of what I planned”
take care
Bart
Vidor–
So true. And as a I said a few posts ago, Bundy never specified, to my knowledge, a county, city, or any exact location in CA.
I know of nothing in the source material that says anything about a murder in California, other than the bare fact that Ted did confess to one murder in California. Nothing further regarding who, where, and when is known.
Actually,Bart, they do. It’s kinda odd that you would make such a declarative statement without investigating it first (an important rule for researchers, btw).
Here’s the deal: The King Co. Archives has many, many thousands of pages on the Bundy case. In the files are many missing and murdered cases of women from Washington State, and the surrounding states. They are there because, at the time, detectives from around the region were working together to figure out which cases could be linked to a single individual, and detailing the differences of the various homicides; all with an eye to discovering, if possible, anything which could lead these investigators to the killer(s) of these women. And so on….
Do King County online Archives store information about disappearances or murders that occured out of the State of Washigton and may be linked to Bundy?
I think this is not the case.
Okay, a change of plans: I have looked over a large stack of papers from my files tonight, and I have perhaps 6 or 7 thousand pages to go. And of course, this is the problem! When a couple of folks started asking me about locating case files of missing and or murdered women who MAY be victims of Ted Bundy, I said yes, thinking that I just might be able to come up with them rather quickly; and that I MIGHT have them located together within the filing system, but this is not the case. Therefore (and I hate to disappoint anyone) but I just do not have the time, nor the inclination, to continue the search. It would literally take me days to locate everything, and so, despite the reasonable request that I search for them, I will have to decline. It is just too time consuming. Sorry.
However, if anyone does have the time, you may check out the files (on line) of the King County Archives, and order what you need.
Kevin,
Can you remember what is the original source of this California murder confession?
On which stage he admitted this CA killing?
When interviewed by Keppel, Polly Nelson, Hagmaier – or some CA investigators?
Is it contained in some “bundy book” or only in criminal files?
California was so far away from his original and “the most comfortable” “hunting grounds” – State of Washington.
Maybe he just didn’t remember details correctly as this murder (if happened) happened probably way before 1975-1975 killing spree.
Another question,
Hitchhiking coed was so easy target for Bundy? Why didn’t he just focus on that? Did he regard such a “acting out” -as “less ambitious”, and not fully fulfilling his monster twisted fantasies to abduct (to steal as he was also compulsive thief) attractive female.
He didn’t kill too many hitchhikers – as far as we know – instead undertaking very risky killings (as Healy abduction) or even completely crazy ones (like double abduction of Ott and Naslund at daylight at Lake Sam).
Take care
Bart
Bart– Bundy admitted killing one woman in California, but I don’t think he named the county or city.
To all who have requested I post those cases I suspect could be Bundy’s, I am going to go through the info tonight and tomorrow. I may be able to post something late tonight, but more likely, tomorrow night.
Regarding Bundy murder in California, I am now just answering myself – as I just made an “enormous” effort of looking up thread and I found some clues – CA murders were discussed here before, in some cases not so long ago, even recently.
According to the posters (Kevin and other very reliable posters) – Bundy admitted killing in Sonoma County, California.
In post 408 Ted Montgomery said
“Bundy supposedly admitted to one murder in Sonoma County, California. This can never be proven, of course, but there was one site in that area where the police found the remains of four girls – bludgeoned and strangled – and they were similar enough to the Washington murders that investigators in both states swapped information on the cases.”
In Post 1876. Deborah, founder of http://www.santarosahitchhikermurders.com/
said:
“Bundy did admit to at least one murder in California, that of a hitchhiker, maybe he actually did more. Jeannette Kamahele, whose body was never found, may be the work of Bundy. It’s certainly not in stone that all of the murders were committed by the same person or persons.”
I checked out with Deborah’s website and Jeannette Kamahele was last seen on April 25, 1972 Cotati, Sonoma County at 9:30 in the morning hitchhiking towards Santa Rosa Junior College where she attended classes.
I checked out with FBI report timeline and for April 1972 it reports:
April 15 1972 – Bundy bought gas, Seattle Washington, Bundy bought gas, Neah Bay Washington
April 28 1972 – Bundy bought gas, Seattle Washington
You all know – I am kind of “man from the Moon” regarding the States, and the ways people are living out there (or actually the way they were living out there almost 40 years ago) – but was it possible (I mean reasonable even to his “insane” reasoning) for Bundy living that time in Seattle and studying psychology at to undertake such a journey south – to San Francisco Bay area – by the means of VW bug – just to commit a murder?
I thought that the longest ever Bundy’s murder trip out of WA state was that to Corvallis, Oregon May 1974.
I checked out with viamichelin.com and journey Seattle – Cotati means almost 14 hours of driving (today)!
Maybe Bundy had some “sane” business in California – like visiting Stephanie Brooks trying to win her heart again (unsuccessfully) and / or borrow money from hem (successfully)?
As for his the then job – I know that in spring of 1972 he still worked on Seattle Crisis Clinic (from 1971 when he met Anne Rule).
In turn Kevin said (in at least two or three posts here so I am not quoting ) that he had some files involving a woman who disappeared from a university library (Stanford?) in CA just before closing and her remains were never found – and he believes that might be Bundy responsible. Kevin promised to one of the posters to post details on this CA library disappearance – as he finds time to search this file.
I am also waiting for this post – and I am curious when and where this happened.
PS:
Topelius. Poland is mourning, funeral chasing funeral on TV (there nearly 100 dead in this crashed plane) – but things are expected to get to normal. Now as President is gone – his duties are temporarily shifted to the Head of Parliament – and presidential elections will be held soon (early June). Anyway – this tragedy was the biggest blow to Polish state authority since WW2.
I`m sorry for terrorizing this discussion with off-topic talk, but Bart, how are things down there now after the Pres. died?
Yes, I have, Vidor. It’s quite interesting, but she is very left wing and touch feely about our poor friends, the serial killers, and I am re-reading Ressler and Douglas’ books and neither of them have a good work to say for her!
To be exact regarding Bundy in California, I checked out with “bundy books” and also with timeline from FBI “Ted Bundy Multi-Agency Team Report” and found Bundy visiting California on the following occasions:
1)
Summer of 1967 (June, July, August) – while Bundy was attending Stanford University, Palo Alto California (he attended on a scholarship the Chinese Institute) – and dating Stephanie Brooks.
He was reported to be in San Francisco June 25-26 1967, July 8 1967 (dinner date)
2)
Somewhere in February 1968 – San Francisco was his first stop in his trip across States (probably first attempted murders or murders).
3)
May 1969 – He travelled to San Francisco, California and stayed with friends with two or 3 weeks (he was contacting “Stephanie Brooks”, trying to win her heart again)
4)
20 August 1970 – he was given ticket by highway patrol for hitchhiking southbound on highway 101, Marin County,California
(!)
His Californian residence for 1970 – from FBI Report:
1252 15TH AVE, MARIN COUNTY, CALIFORNIA-1970
5)
June 13-15 1973 – Bundy stayed at Mark Hopkins Hotel, San Francisco (this time he playing “new reborn Bundy” to Stephanie Brooks).
According to Anne Rule – his goal was Sacramento – he was on a business trip for the Washington Republican Party.
Looks like that is all – regarding Bundy in California.
I have a feeling it is not complete.
Specially 1971-1972 gap is strange – as he was fighting for Stephanie’s heart (at least in his “sane’ version of his life) – so he probably visited California.
I only wonder when did this one murder in California occur – that Bundy confessed to? In 1973?
Lorraine
I also want to thank you Lorraine for posting photo of this bracelet.
Can I ask – by the way – whether Kathy was specially interested in some specific religion – like I don’t know – ancient Egyptian or Roman or whatever? Or maybe modern ones?
You once mentioned she studied “World Religious” because of her personal interest – and she was sometimes worried about “career”.
KYGB!
I am glad you are back and less harsh with me.
What can I say? You 100 % right and 100 % wrong about me.
Anyway, thank you for advice.
Don’t you worry about me because I trying to learn every lesson here.
Fiz!
I think it is much much easier for native English speaker to remember spelling and pronunciation of English names and surnames – but frankly I don’t remember all those female names and surnames by heart – and I am ashamed with this.
Hi JRJ–
No, I did not locate this document. To tell you the truth, I’m not so sure it was exactly what everyone said it was; that is, Bundy may have written certain things for the commission, but (as someone told me) it may not have been a full report. And whatever it was, it may no longer exist.
That’s all the info I have about this supposed document.
Vidor–
Only a part of the book is about Bundy, as he is but one of a number of killers profiled in her book. I purchased a copy during my research thinking it was entirely about Bundy, and was somewhat disappointed to learn otherwise. Still, there is some good info there, as she did have dealings with him.
Has anyone ever read Dorothy Lewis’s book “Guilty By Reason Of Insanity”?
http://books.google.com/books?id=73TWAAAAMAAJ&q=dorothy+otnow+lewis&dq=dorothy+otnow+lewis&hl=en&ei=HFPSS6S_L4SEswOlt-3zCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAg
Is this worth getting?
Thanks, Lorraine (I initially typed Kathy) –perhaps a subconsious nod to the bond this jewelry indicates between the two of you.
As a male (and I know next to nothing about jewelery) I was STUNNED at its beauty. I had assumed that it was just some nice costume jewelry that might be exchanged between college co-eds. But to this untrained eye, it takes on the appearance of a family heirloom; a 20s or 30s piece with a Tifanny’s Glass style pattern.
I can now reveal the real reason I asked about the bracelet. Earler Kevin has talked about a portent of doom that he felt for a fellow pastor or parishoner [?]. My father similarly told me of a bad dream he had about one of his brothers who was studying in Europe; he received a telegram the VERY next day indicating that his brother had died. So when you initially told us that Kathy had given you a bracelet on the day she disappeared, I wondered if she might have had some kind of premonition; however I didn’t want to suggest this to you ahead of time. However, from your account it appears that this was not in fact the case.
Kevin,
In your research did ever come across the Rape Prevention Pamplet authored by Bundy for the Seattle Crime Commsion [?] in 1973 [?] Do you know if it was authored by him exclusively and can it be read anywhere [online?] What a Macheavelian thrill it must have been for him to put this together!
Thank you Lorraine for posting those pictures. Seeing that bracelet truly makes Kathy more real, if you will, and not just a statistic, as some people have pointed out.
By the way, odd thing happened last night in our Univ. district. Some guy invaded a female student`s apartment and tried to rape her. Fortunately there were males around and the guy couldn`t do what he wanted to do. He`s in custody right now, I heard.
Take care yourself, folks. Anything can happen.
Make that “surely”.
Hi Barry,
No, I didn’t. And I’ve got to tell you, I believe those letters are the last thing in the world I would read. And here’s why: Any woman who wrote Bundy love letters when he was ensconced on death row, must either be a sociopath like Bundy, or have less intelligence than a common ground worm. I mean, they surly must be the stupidest people on the earth.
Of course, I would not think less of anyone who wanted to read such things, LOL!
Bart, I don’t have Bundy books at my elbow, but I don’t forget those girls’ names! Anyway, what has not being an English speaker got to do with fact you cannot remember their names?
Lorraine, what a beautiful bracelet! It’s the type of thing I would have worn. We are much the same age – I was 18 in 1976 and went to university then. Oddly enough, I managed to get on the site , just by the link! Thank you for showing it to us. It is very special and makes Kathy an even stronger personality and the sort of person I would like to have known.
Hey Kevin
Did u ever get ur hands on any of the love letters that many women sent to bundy on death row?
Would be interesting to know what they said to him.
Hey, I’m back. Computer problems knocked me off here for almost two weeks. I didn’t respond to a few points and thought I would catch back up.
Monica, thanks for the help on the Photobucket usage. I still may call on ya when I post a pic from there, but I get the idea.
Lorraine, what can I say? The work you did on your posts of the campus was absolutely first rate. I must also say that posting your student ID took a lot of guts. This last post with the bracelet really got to me. Kathy Parks was one of the victims that always gave me pause. The photo of her with that almost “Mona Lisa” look always made me wonder about her and what she was like. Now I know she was a good friend who would buy her pal a thoughtful gift. She was a great girl who would dress up in a chicken suit and knew where to score a good gram of hash. What a tragic loss of humanity.
I breezed thru all the posts I missed. It was actually cool to see a bunch of posts all in one group. I had to laugh when Lorraine made the photobucket album post and nobody commented at first. The “post flow” on here can really be erratic.
Bart, slow down and think. I gave you that broadside way back when because you earned it. I don’t hate you, but man, you give everybody serious pause at times. You really lack a basic understanding of the States, the language, and the basic ways of the people that live here. I think you are trying to help here, but many of your basic ideas are seriously flawed. I was really concerned about you bothering the victim survivors for your little “project”. I still am. My basic feelings about that type of activity would be it would do way more harm than good. I don’t necessarily think you are a bull in a china shop. More like a happy puppy that isn’t house broken, yet. You let your enthusiasm overload your judgment far too much.
Slow down and listen to some of the posters on this forum. They might be able to educate you and cause you to think.
I worry that you might just try to contact victim survivors from a tavern, posting through your cell phone.
Jason, this is one of the best forums I’ve ever been on & I’ve been on a gang of ’em!
Kevin,
The style of the bracelet was very new in 1974, and it only remained popular for a very short time, so that makes it especially “frozen in time”, and special to me. I never, ever wore it after Kathy disappeared, but as I mentioned, I wear it all the time now. Because the style was popular for only a short time, its amazing how many comments (and compliments) I get on it. Most people under the age of 40 have never seen such a thing, hehe, and I love that. And yes, Kathy would immediately recognize it 🙂
Lorraine
Fiz, I respect them all but I am not native English speaker, I am writing emotionally without ‘bundy books’ around. Now for example I am in tavern, posting through my cell phone. As for Bundy studying in California, he was there in 1969 during summer term (Asian studies). During ‘reunion with Stephanie’ he was in San Francisco in 1973, but I will check later how long (how frequent) those visits were.
Lorraine,
Thanks so much for posting the pic of Kathy’s bracelet! Just seeing it (and perhaps I’m speaking from that inward inquisitive factor most writers possess) gives me the sense of just how real, and somewhat frozen in time, are the events of that night, and of Kathy’s life in general. I mean, here is the bracelet she owned, looking almost new, and if she were here today, she’d recognize it immediately as belonging to her.
It is a very special item, Lorraine, and I’m glad that you have it.
Lorraine – thanks for enlightening me 🙂
Thanks for both answers, Kevin
I know California population is one the biggest in the United States – and probably that was the same case back in early 70s – but we are living in a weird-small world, so who knows?
Anyway I naturally don’t have a slightest clue to support it.
As for Bundy never harming somebody whom he knows – I think we will never know for sure.
I think – the same way he was ashamed to confess on murdering kids – the same way he was ashamed to confess on killing someone he had known before.
I don’t have your book at the moment – but probably even you suggested (in your book or on this site) that he might have known Healey – as they were probably sharing the same classes or something.
Anyway – stranger attacking stranger was his “ideal” situation.
Well, better late than never, I hope… This is the bracelet that I have from Kathy:
http://s1009.photobucket.com/albums/af215/ForKathy/Bracelet/
It is cloisonne style (enamel over metal) which was just beginning to become popular in 1974. Kathy was right, it went very well with my new dress…. but the dinner date never occurred. I was far to worried about Kathy to go.
Bart, do you have any idea how HUGE San Francisco is?! Besides, Bundy was in Palo Alto, (Stanford University) wasn’t he? Kathy was in Lafayette. The likelihood of Bundy “encountering” Kathy in San Francisco, learning she was going to OSU months later, and waiting nearly a year to randomly run into her at the Memorial Union Commons after 11:00 PM in Corvallis, Oregon, 500 miles away, is WAY too far fetched for me to even consider as being even remotely possible. I would guess that the likelihood of that is basically zero.
I don’t know what its like in Poland, but I think you are picturing The San Francisco Bay Area quite differently from what it is (and was in 1973). Perhaps in Poland if you don’t live in a major city, you have to travel to one for better fashion (shopping) or availability of certain products? Kathy,in Lafeyette, (just as I, in Novato) would not likely have made many trips to San Francisco unless she was working there which she was not. Shopping in Lafayette (and Novato) was, and remains, pretty much the same as that available in San Francisco. Most major bands that performed concerts in San Francisco also did shows in the surrounding counties, and the majority of “unique” things found in San Francisco and not our respective cities were tourist traps, and not appealing to those of us living in the suburbs.
I, and most people I knew, went to San Francisco as little as possible. There was (is) no need to drive extra distance, place oneself in a giant traffic jam, pay bridge tolls, search forever for expensive and hard to find parking to go to a (larger) city which had little to offer suburbanites that we could not find in our own, smaller (but equally modern and well equipped) cities. San Francisco is appealing to tourists, but when you live in the suburbs, its really nothing more than a pain in the neck. In the 7 years I lived in Marin County, I think I went to San Francisco 10 times at most, and only only once buy choice.
Also, I beg to differ on the “murder was ‘nothing’ to Bundy” statement. Murder was EVERYTHING to Bundy!!!
Lorraine
Bart, if you are going to discuss this case, you might at least bother to get the victims’ names right, especially since you claim to greatly respect them!
Bart — There is no way Kathy Parks met Bundy prior to that night at OSU. Do you have any idea how populated is the state of California? it would be preposterous to assume they met in such a way; that’s not even speculation, as speculation has to be based on some type of lead or fact, however thin it might be.
And yes, it is a true statement Bundy made about not wanting to harm anyone he knew. Now, it’s not a 100% certainty that he couldn’t hurt someone he knew and maybe even loved, he just meant that, for the types of things he was doing to his victims, a stranger was the most perfect person for this. In other words, he was capable of hurting, say, Liz Kendall (as he almost did on two occasions) but he wouldn’t do to her what he normally does to his victims. And I personally believe at those times he did lose it with Liz, he did so because of his inability to keep the “monster” in check within himself. The murders he committed, on the other hand, were all (for the most part) well planned.
Bart — If there is anything Bundy wouldn’t forget in life, it’s the murders he committed. The act of committing murder, for Ted bundy, was the most important thing he could do in life. Nothing else came close to stimulating him like killing women, and then “possessing” those women in a metaphorical sense the rest of his life. I believe the only murder he might have had trouble remembering would be Donna Manson’s, as evidenced from his statement to Bob keppel.
Vidor,
In order for Bundy’s bones-for-time scheme to work he HAD to produce a body. Keppel made it clear that he would not go to bat for Bundy without that. The fact that the only body Bundy pointed to was inaccessible beneath six feet of snow, which Bundy knew was the case, tells me that he was not serious about the scheme. Something else was going on.
Taking advantage of my time zone 🙂 – I am also curious whether Bundy’s motto “I can never kill someone I know personally” – was really true – and or – only just a part of Bundy auto-mythology.
He was said to know Anne Heally, I read about other suspicions linking him with other victims (Susan Rancourt?)
And first all Anne Marie Burry kid.
Naturally he didn’t want investigators to establish any link between him and the victim – and “the best” for him was “stranger attacks stranger” style. But that does not mean he was not able to attack someone who knew him only barely – I mean – superficially – and therefore couldn’t be afterwards linked to him.
I fear something like this might even happened also to Kathy – as she might have been familiar to San Francisco at the same time when Bundy was visiting this city during his reunion time with Stephanie Brooks” (summer 1973 – New Years Eve 1974). Brook was from San Francisco.
That “reunion time” started with “his business trip to California in the summer of 1973” (see Wiki Bundy page).
BTW – I wonder what kind of business trip he had in California?
He was never a business person. Maybe he was on some Republican assignment / convention?
However I don’t know how long he stayed in California then and what he did then – attending open some “open” parties, making new acquaintances?
Given the fact Kathy was in Corvallis since probably October 1973 as OSU fall term opened – this possibility is small but still exists.
Maybe during summer break 1973 she was hanging out in her native California and their paths crossed for a second?
Maybe they had both common acquaintances and he referred to them – during that fatal cafeteria chat in Corvallis?
That would explain why Kathy left the Commons with him so quickly and with no suspicions.
Regarding bundy final confessions on the killings, I sometimes wonder whether he really remembered the details after 15 years? Killing a person was such ‘nothing’ to him, plus he was so determined to denying his guilt over the years to all (including himself). That might have affected his memory and made him really ‘forget’ things (as he constantly claimed he was ‘not guilty’) Did he have a good memory at all? I remember from M&A: ‘I’m terrible with names and faces. Can’t remember them’. And he told it in 1980. Would his memory serve him better after next 9 years?